Major_Gilbear Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Each company has it's own CM and Chaplain. Each of whom assume command of a demi-co when the company splits. I-Chaplains are something completely different and would be present aswell as the regular chaplain, rather than instead of the regular Chaplain, should the situation require DW oversight. Atleast this is how I interprate the fluff? -Edit- The only exception to this is the 1st company who have an I-C as standard. Apologies, I've done some more digging, and see that this fluff element has been altered again; not all IntChaps are members of the DW or Inner Circle any more (weirdly), and so the fluff reason for not having them in a Demi Company is actually stronger than I'd realised. I recant my earlier statement! (Oh look here comes an Interrogator now, what a coincidence... I wonder if it's something I said?) I would be pissed if I was forced to only Sammael. It's almost the same as forcing Greenwing to take Azrael as Warlord each game. That's the point really. I believe they have more TDA than Artificer Armour in stock. They could probably even give their gardener TDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmiteThemAll Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 So wait, can a ravenwing support squadron fire over watch for itself? The wording has got me scratching my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 So wait, can a ravenwing support squadron fire over watch for itself? The wording has got me scratching my head Yes, it can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really don't get most of these complaints, ESPECIALLY on the actual DA subforum. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The Belial + GK FAQ is bad. Belial can't use his Deep Strike rule with a unit of GKT, as Special rules don't carry over unless they specify they do. But Belials rule specifies the unit he is attached to. Apparently, that doesn't include Grey Knight units. Shame on all of us using him as a replacement Mordrak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The Belial + GK FAQ is bad. Belial can't use his Deep Strike rule with a unit of GKT, as Special rules don't carry over unless they specify they do. But Belials rule specifies the unit he is attached to. Apparently, that doesn't include Grey Knight units. Shame on all of us using him as a replacement Mordrak. Fair enough that RAW Belial can lead a group of GKs pre-faq....the thought of Belial leading a group of non Deathwing Terminators AND a group of Grey Knights being led by a non Grey Knight though is absolutely absurd, MAYBE Belial leading a unit of Space Wolves terminators would be worse but not by much. I am happy with the ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMostGood Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The Belial + GK FAQ is bad. Belial can't use his Deep Strike rule with a unit of GKT, as Special rules don't carry over unless they specify they do. But Belials rule specifies the unit he is attached to. Apparently, that doesn't include Grey Knight units. Shame on all of us using him as a replacement Mordrak. That's how it is across the board for every faction. It's to simplify the rules and prevent confusion. Unless you want to suggest that the Combinded Firepower special rule confers to anyone in the unit that's shooting and not the formation itself. Would make Darkstrider finally useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really don't get most of these complaints, ESPECIALLY on the actual DA subforum. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Every marine codex is designed for making your own chapter, and even if they weren't, the DA codex presents several successor chapters in its pages. Is the second company master of the Angels of Absolution supposed to have the same gear loadout as Sammael? Honestly I'm rather that they delete the TDA option for company masters and replace it with a bike option, since Belial already has a pretty diverse variable loadout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Counts as mordrak. GW removed mordrak from us due to him not having a specfic model. Belial was the best way to represent him in current rules. That aside, the faq is just wrong. Belials rule specifically transfers to the unit. So it should apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Right, because for the Dark Angels (who are not a Legion, I promise!) Samamel is "Grand Master of the Ravenwing" as well as "Dark Angels 2nd Company Master", and is therefore the senior officer for all successor Ravenwing-esque formations as well as his own. However, the other chapters still have a 2nd Company Master of their own, who is clearly not Sammael or his clone. Why is that so hard to understand? And why is telling people who want this option to go and play with another army an acceptable response? If you don't like it, that's fine - however, you lose nothing by allowing it for others to enjoy. Honestly, I thought 6E and 7E were about giving players more options, not fewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really don't get most of these complaints, ESPECIALLY on the actual DA subforum. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Every marine codex is designed for making your own chapter, and even if they weren't, the DA codex presents several successor chapters in its pages. Is the second company master of the Angels of Absolution supposed to have the same gear loadout as Sammael? Honestly I'm rather that they delete the TDA option for company masters and replace it with a bike option, since Belial already has a pretty diverse variable loadout. Ok sure, but this is a codex based on a specific SM chapter and is designed to represent them. Sure there are other successor chapters presented but some compromises have to be made while playing them, same as any other codex really. Basically GW writes the DA codex to represent DA, if you want to do a successor chapter that has a different structure it is on your head to fit it in the rules not their's. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Right, because for the Dark Angels (who are not a Legion, I promise!) Samamel is "Grand Master of the Ravenwing" as well as "Dark Angels 2nd Company Master", and is therefore the senior officer for all successor Ravenwing-esque formations as well as his own. However, the other chapters still have a 2nd Company Master of their own, who is clearly not Sammael or his clone. Why is that so hard to understand? And why is telling people who want this option to go and play with another army an acceptable response? If you don't like it, that's fine - however, you lose nothing by allowing it for others to enjoy. Honestly, I thought 6E and 7E were about giving players more options, not fewer. As I said above, the DA codex represents DA. If you want to play a chapter that is not DA then it's your responsibility to fit your fluff to the rules not the other way around. If the DA codex allowed a generic chapter master on a bike then that totally defeats the fluff of DA already having a named chapter master for their bike company. If you are playing a successor chapter then you'll just have to use counts as rules for your bike chapter master exactly the same way regular SM chapters have to use Tigerious' rules when making a head librarian or any other codex for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really don't get most of these complaints, ESPECIALLY on the actual DA subforum. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Every marine codex is designed for making your own chapter, and even if they weren't, the DA codex presents several successor chapters in its pages. Is the second company master of the Angels of Absolution supposed to have the same gear loadout as Sammael? Honestly I'm rather that they delete the TDA option for company masters and replace it with a bike option, since Belial already has a pretty diverse variable loadout. This is the issue for me. I think there is some confusion that people want a chapter master on a bike as a power gaming option but the issue is in fact a fluff problem. Some people may want to play a successor chapters 2nd company master who does not have access to the last jet bike in the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really don't get most of these complaints, ESPECIALLY on the actual DA subforum. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. Every marine codex is designed for making your own chapter, and even if they weren't, the DA codex presents several successor chapters in its pages. Is the second company master of the Angels of Absolution supposed to have the same gear loadout as Sammael? Honestly I'm rather that they delete the TDA option for company masters and replace it with a bike option, since Belial already has a pretty diverse variable loadout. This is the issue for me. I think there is some confusion that people want a chapter master on a bike as a power gaming option but the issue is in fact a fluff problem. Some people may want to play a successor chapters 2nd company master who does not have access to the last jet bike in the galaxy. So what's stopping anyone from modeling your own chapter master on a bike and using Sammael's rules? Just move him in game as if he were a regular bike instead of a jetbike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 So what's stopping anyone who has Dark Angels and Sammael from choosing to use him instead of a Company Master on a bike? Just use Sammael and ignore the regular bike wargear option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 1) I totally understand why people are upset that they cannot have a 100% DW Assault army unless it's by "friendly consent" or "Unbound" (which is the same thing, surely?). Especially when they are also told that 100% DW Assault army isn't competitive anyway. Well in that case why the isn't this just made official, and those who want to run a fluffy and uncompetitive army can? Why does this need some sort of special super-snowflake begging consent from your opponent? Really? It's pathetic. Lets look at this another way - the rules for playing a pure DW army are right there in the BRB and have been since 7th and are there precisely to let you play with exactly the models you want to play with. Unbound. So now we have a group of players complaining "we do not want to play with the rules in the book, why won't GW write new rules for us to play with the models we want to play with?" It seems very strange on the one hand to be steadfast in refusing to play with the rules published and simultaneously to insist that the publishers are somehow cheating you if they do not respond to the complaints with more rules to achieve exactly the same set of models being played on the table. Whats that all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Brothers, Lets calm down please. I agree it kind of sucks DW assault is dead, I gave my opinion on page one on how deal wit it. However I also understand those who want to take a Termi army to a tourney. Now I have limited tourney experience admittedly but lets be honest all 2+ saves and deepstriking aren't going to survive all that long from everything I can see. Now if you want to win "most fluffy army of the tourney award" then I suppose you could probably talk to those running it and probably make that happen. Keep in mind they will probably happily throw out the first turn rule (aside from having units that get wiped off the board first turn) and you can get the fluffy award. To those who bring up previous versions that let us footslog and make it all possible I feel your pain. It sucks but things change. Formations etc. Brothers complaining about it here is not going to do anything but turn what this should be a two page thread into four. By all means go on facebook and demand a change for DW army's to work. While you're at it demand the Int Chappy works for a regular one! But arguing with each other among the First Legion is not how our Legion operates. Plus as has been stated the DA forum is rather renowned for being new member friendly. A big part of this is keeping thread bashing down. Deep breath, Now I am no moderator at all but I've been on here a few years so I ask brothers lets not just keep it simple and constructive, lets keep it actually relevant. None of us write the rules here (and I you do good on you for sneaking in) and as far as I am aware ADB is our only writer (and he does well representing us I think) so lets accept rules are going to suck do what you can and complain somewhere we can make a difference. Thanks and sorry if I offend anyone no offense meant. DoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I remember not long ago, the only option to have a RW was Sammael as HQ. Right now we can have two versions of Sammael, Chaplain or Librarian and people are concerned about not getting a captain on bike? Did anyone actually fielded Captain on a bike in the times you could? I remember thta the go-to choice was either Sammael or Chaplain on bike... The captain was more expensive than Chaplain and had no "special" rules and Sammael had better rules than the Captain. So what changed for all this clamor about Captain on bike? If you want cheap HQ's you have them, if you want Fighty HQ's you have them, and if you want Special HQ's you have them. I'm sure modellers can just model a Captain and Players will not go for a Captain because there are better choices, what is this fuss all about? My go to in 3rd was a grandmaster, bike, sword of secrets, artificer armor, and iron halo. I loved running bike mounted hq's. I still do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I really don't get most of these complaints, ESPECIALLY on the actual DA subforum. Ravenwing are the ones who ride bikes, it is part of the chapter's identity. Ravenwing are their own company who already have their own named company master. All these things taken together = no generic company master on a bike. If someone doesn't want Sammael to be their company master and they want an army of bikes, well then they should probably switch to the SM codex since that one is designed for creating your own chapter. I think you confused Dark Angels with Space Wolves. You know there is more than one Ravenwing, and the Codex:DA is supposed to cover the ones in successors too? As it is, we have ridiculous situation the "only" surviving jetbike apparently belongs to dozens of Chapters at once. Also, even if DA had no successors at all, people would still want to put 'their guy' in charge of their army, perhaps representing DA before (or after) Sammael. The horror, who let creativity, lore writing and freeform modelling into this game?! Ok sure, but this is a codex based on a specific SM chapter and is designed to represent them. Oh really? Then why you have all the unforgiven colour schemes in book? Why codex outright tells you death/ravenwing is in all of their successors, though sometimes with different name? Why waste ink on something that was never meant to be used? Also: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Codex-Dark-Angels-2015-ENG "Opportunities to build your own Deathwing and Ravenwing formations from the extensive range of available miniatures." I don't see exception for their leaders here, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Truckin Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Apologies, I've done some more digging, and see that this fluff element has been altered again; not all IntChaps are members of the DW or Inner Circle any more (weirdly):Wha wha wha what? When did this change? How does this even make sense?I can understand skipping Deathwing but inner circle? How do those interrogations work? "Go get intel from Black Legion Bob, but dont believe a word he says about this cypher guy he has beers with. Write it down real careful like but dont believe it. Once he starts drinking he spouts allnthese crazy right wing theories about ol Caliban. " Is this something from those new Gav Thorpe books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o8oo Anarch Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I believe it's that all I-chaps are DW/Inner circle, but I'm not sure non-I-chaplains are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Wha wha wha what? When did this change? How does this even make sense? I can understand skipping Deathwing but inner circle? How do those interrogations work? "Go get intel from Black Legion Bob, but dont believe a word he says about this cypher guy he has beers with. Write it down real careful like but dont believe it. Once he starts drinking he spouts allnthese crazy right wing theories about ol Caliban. " Is this something from those new Gav Thorpe books? "Interrogator-Chaplain - The Dark Angels maintain a very special cadre of Chaplainsknown as Interrogator-Chaplains who are tasked with getting any Fallen Angel who has been captured by the Dark Angels to admit their sins and repent of their betrayal of the Emperor. Interrogator-Chaplains are as skilled in the arts of interrogation, torture and psychological manipulation as the most experienced members of the Inquisition. Interrogator-Chaplains are not members of the Inner Circle, though their duties require that they have knowledge of many more of the Chapter's secrets than is normal for Dark Angels of their rank". From here . As I said, it surprised me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I believe it's that all I-chaps are DW/Inner circle, but I'm not sure non-I-chaplains are?That's what I always thought! DW Chaps = Inner Circle Int Chaps = Inner Circle Regular Chaps = not Inner Circle Anyway, sorry for off topic-ness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Tell that to the chaplains and librarians. Which company are they in again? ;)Well, there IS a Chaplain in the Ravenwing, so that makes perfect sense that a Chaplain could take a bike. Since librarians are tasked to be with the Ravenwing, that also makes sense. An additional Company Master with the Ravenwing? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major_Gilbear Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 A Company Master with a successor chapter Ravenwing? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Even if they gave us a named successor master with a different loadout, a la Seth from the BA codex, I'd be a little happier since at least then we'd have some option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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