Kelborn Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Hey there, as this books was published a couple of years ago, I believe that there has already been the following question but I haven't found it. I'm currently reading The First Heretic. Just finished the birth of the Primarch scenes and there are a couple of mentioning's about the Lost & Forgotten Legions. The rumor about XIIIth Legions rise in numbers after the disappearance of both of the Legions. I know that this is just a rumor and I think it was officially refused. Therefore I won't dive into this rumor. BUT Later on, when Argel Tal is witnessing half of the Primarchs landing on their future homeworlds, there was one scene I could not assign to one of them. Here's the quote: "One by one, the pods came down. Alone now, Argel Tal stood on the surface of each world and watched them strike home. Not all of them; and that itself was a source of mystery. Was there some significance in the planetfalls he was entitled to witness? Why these, and not the others? The first was a blazing meteorite, ploughing into the soft soil of a temperate world. The pod didn't punch deep; it carved a furrow in the ground and skidded to a halt in the midst of an evergreen forest so dense that the overhanging trees refused the moonlight above. The child that emerged from the broken pod was pale of skin and fierce of eye. His hair was black as the armour of the warriors he would grow to lead. Twilight fell without warning-" Every mentioned Primarch is one who will break their fealties with the Emperor. Furthermore, they were enumerated like their Legions, I.e. Fulgrim being the second traitor Primarch (= ECs are the second official Legion excluding the II Lost Legion), last was Alpharius Omegan. What I assume while reading this particular scene: It is Lion El'Johnson pro a world of forests, his warriors wore black armor con Johnson is ever since depicted having blonde / golden hair If it is Johnson, why is he shown in a line of traitors? Having the never ending discussion about the First Legion and their fallen brothers in mind, did A D B wrote that just to irritate us about the loyalties of the first Primarch? It is the Second Primarch pro black hair; only Curze and Corax were described as having black hair. The first is mentioned in this scenes as well, the latter not (probably because of his loyalty) He is the first Primarch to appear in this enumeration of traitor Primarchs, right before Fulgrim. In the official enumeration, only Johnson and the Lost Primarch are before Fulgrim. Therefore, it can be a hint that the second son fell to Chaos as well and therefore was expunged from record. con The forests indicate Caliban like the black armour indicates the pre Heresy Dark Angels. Whatever the case, A D B did a great job with this book. All those tiny clues about the lost Legions are very enjoyable. And even if it is Johnson indeed, for me, it will be the second son. ^^ So what do you think or was it already clarified and I just haven't found it? Could it be that we got a small insight about the second son? Or was it all just a little prank of A D B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It is Icarion ;) In all seriousness...a black-haired primarch who landed in a dense forest Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Although never stated, it's believed to be The Lion, and it is supposed that The Lion was destined to join Horus, but for whatever reason the gods miscalculated. His hair on turned golden once he joined civilization. Cheers, Jono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 His hair ... changed colour ... ? Never heard that before. It's more likely to be Curze. Why else would there be a quote about twilight. Curze is Batman after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 His hair ... changed colour ... ? Never heard that before. It's more likely to be Curze. Why else would there be a quote about twilight. Curze is Batman after all. Curze's passage is a couple on though: 'No world should ever be this dark. Argal Tal's eyes took a few seconds to pierce the deep night, and what met his gaze was no better than the preceding darkness. A lightless sky was dominated by an imposing moon that eclipsed the starlight rather than reflect the sun. A sprawling city on the horizon was barely lit, as though the eyes of its denizens would rebel against any true illumination. Fire heralded the pod's arrival - brightening the air over the wasteland with blazing light as it tore groundward. The impact was a spear thrust into the metallic smelling soil, driving the incubator deep into the ground with enough force to split the land with tectonic cracks. The Word Bearer maintained his balance, breathing in air that tasted of iron and waiting for signs of movement from the chasm freshly-carved into the infertile earth. The boy that rose under the night sky was corpse-pale, and unique among the progenitors Argal Tal had seen so far, for he carried a shard of his gestation pod clutched tight in his fist - a knife, crude and instinctive, made from the twisted metal of his pod. Thunder announced itself overhead. The boy raised his face to the sky, a sudden trident of lightning illuminating the child's gaunt, unhealthy features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Correct. Every traitor (plus Alpharius) has his own passage. That's why I've started to think about this very first passage right before Fulgrims. Never heard of changing hair colors either. oO Though this might be true (as it sound too ridiculous to be wrong for GW), I still prefer the Second Primarch theory as we also have some suggestions about the eleventh previous to this scene. Would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 His hair ... changed colour ... ? Never heard that before. It's more likely to be Curze. Why else would there be a quote about twilight. Curze is Batman after all. Because hair dye is a thing. Sanguinius also dyed his hair when in mourning for his legion. Also, I don't get what you mean about twilight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Well the only other Primarch with black hair is Corax. Is there anything that says there wasn't forests on his world? I refuse to believe hair dye is a thing in the grim darkness of the far future. There is only war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Well the only other Primarch with black hair is Corax. Is there anything that says there wasn't forests on his world? I refuse to believe hair dye is a thing in the grim darkness of the far future. There is only war! He landed on a prison moon, so no forests methinks. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 It won't be Corax as all mentioned Primarchs will become traitors. As I said earlier, Corax is not covered in this passage. Funny. I thought that it's just me who had this idea and everyone else knows for sure that it is the Lion or someone else. ^^ Maybe we get a comment from the author himself as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Maybe you're right then. I had a quick look over the names of the rest of them and there are none other that I know of that have black hair. There's Khan (black hair but mostly open plains on his world) and Horus (I think black hair but I don't know much of his home world). So maybe it is one of the lost ones that turned to Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Twilight means it can't be Curze. The light of the sun doesn't reach Nostromo's surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Twilight would fit so damn well my plans of creating a Lost & Forgotten Primarch. ^^ Whatever the case, I'll borrow this scene for my own use. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Think it wasn't long after this incident they were told no more tidbits, hints or anything mildly related to 2 and 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 That actually became the party line? It did occur to me that the only thing I've seen since then was a line in Scars referring to beliefs that only a Primarch could kill another "fuelled by rumours of past atrocities..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 That actually became the party line? It did occur to me that the only thing I've seen since then was a line in Scars referring to beliefs that only a Primarch could kill another "fuelled by rumours of past atrocities..." One of the authors mentioned it at some point many moons ago, but I believe that it is indeed the case. In part the fact we keep asking about them, the other we were almost getting too much info, even though it wasn't alot at all are my theories on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I wonder when the edict happened. I like the idea that Wraight snuck that one under the fence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Twilight would fit so damn well my plans of creating a Lost & Forgotten Primarch. ^^ Whatever the case, I'll borrow this scene for my own use. ;) Curze landed nowhere near a forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 One of the authors mentioned it at some point many moons ago, but I believe that it is indeed the case. In part the fact we keep asking about them, the other we were almost getting too much info, even though it wasn't alot at all are my theories on it I suspect it's rather the fact fans will take things such as Word Bearers claiming the Ultramarines are so numerous not because of Guilliman's skills but instead because they absorbed the two lost legions as IRREFUTABUL FACTZORZ as opposed to the spite-fuelled biased gossip it's supposed to be or the fact some people still believe THE MOTHERING EXECUTIONERS TOTES MURDERED THE LOST LEGIONZ!!!one! when A D-B confirmed Leman Russ was referring to the Night of the Wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 There are a bunch of ways to interpret almost everything that is said about the Lost Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Though the traitorous one is more heavily implied to be XI than II (again, pure conjecture of me interpreting "the forgotten and the purged" as two separate titles for each lost primarch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Maybe one day they will release a Novell called "The forgotten" and another called "The Purged" and tell us everything we'd like to know ... Yeah no I'm sure they won't either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Any canon Lost Primarch has to fight Icarion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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