Starting Guard with Space Wolve Allies, help needed.

[LiquicityShadows]

Hi all. I recently acquired a Macharius Vanquisher (one of my all time favorite FW models) which gives me the perfect excuse to start collecting Astra Militarum. It is my intention to start with a 1850 points army that uses Space Wolves allies (my main force) to bolster their ranks. Since I'm still very new to the Guard, however, I'm not completely sure what the best way of going about would be.

I took a look a the Start Collecting! Astra Militarum box, and it seems like good value for money. My initial thought was to get two of these boxes and build them into a CAD with an allied space wolves detachment.

The list I came up with broadly goes as follows:

CAD

HQ

Lord Commissar

Troops

10 Veterans w/ Missile Launcher

10 Veterans w/ Missile Launcher

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Exterminator

Leman Russ Exterminator

LoW

Macharius Vanquisher

Space Wolves Allied Detachment

HQ

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf

Troops

10 Grey Hunters w/ metla guns in a Rhino

Fast Attack

3 Thunder Wolf Cavalry

Heavy Support

6 Long Fangs w/ Missile Launchers

I quite like this basic setup, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what wargear to give to the Guard.

My goal is to make this a fun and kinda fluffy (i.e. the exterminators) list. It is in no way meant to be competitive, but it would be nice if the army could hold it's own.

Suggestions for a different list, as long as they incorporate the Macharius, are appreciated to!

P.s. I wasn't completely sure where to post this. I hope I chose the right section

[HenricusTyranicus]

A mere 16 points will make those veterans amazing. Buy Forward Sentries. Buy 3 sniper rifles. Repeat for the other squad. Cheap, and annoys MEQ and Monstrous Creatures to no end. 

 

Do you have multiple turret options for your Russes? If so, I recommend at least one be switched out for something else. I don't think there's a need for two of the same kind. If you don't, it's no huge deal. Also, strongly recommend getting them some sponsons. Either multi melta lascannon, for terrorizing light armor, or tri heavy bolter, for messing up infantry.

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the Guard, you're definitely in the right place :) The Start Collecting boxes are great value for money especially when you buy online ;) For an allied force you get the best results by doing something your primary can't - this is an easy answer for you. Guard can provide the numbers SW can't, and will bring a lot of fire power (some SW can't get) with that. Guardsmen Platoons can hold ground and provide good fire support letting your Wolves close in for the kill, something I'm sure they're like :P

 

This also provides you with the Leman Russ tank - so good the SW Primarch named himself after it no less. Heavy army and giant guns will provide an excellent armoured backbone... just be careful if you take the ordnance ones lest they accidentally hit some Marines!

 

So with this in mind, Vets struggle a little in that Marines can do the closing in better but if you do take some to try and keep costs/models down then make the most of their capability to take three special weapons. A missile launcher is ok, but I'm sure your Wolves can do it better. Maybe something like plasma to let them offer some solid shooting support, or maybe go cheeky and cheap and load them up on flamers (don't forget the heavy flamer!) - a nasty unit that opponents may easily ignore in favour of targeting your Marines.

 

The Exterminator is a nice tank, but not that special. If you're going to take a Russ, why not make the most of it? Blast templates that will easily fry your Marines as the enemy aside what about an Eradicator? Cheaper, and it will pulverise all but heavy infantry with ease letting your Marines focus on the meat of the enemy.

 

Do you have any modelling/colour scheme ideas?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Wargear for guard is pretty easy. What do you want them to do? Vets can actually do special weapons better than Space wolves, though not as tough. I'd invest in some transport for those vets if you can. Where your space wolves will really shine as allies is in providing the guardsmen something they lack, namely Close Combat. You've done a decent job in taking some thunderwolf cavalry. The Long Fangs are probably redundant, since guard does heavy support extremely well.

 

Here are some tips:

Grenadiers - take this on plasma vets, it'll decrease the likelihood of exploding on gets hot.

Forward Sentries - great for cover camping heavy weapons, tends to be a static objective camper, to take advantage of that heavy weapon.

Demolitions - Take on melta vets for trolling your opponent's tanks.

Special weapons - Guard vets can take up to three special weapons.

BS4- Vets shoot just as good as grey hunters. better if you give them orders, I've had termies die to first rank fire, second rank fire.

 

If I were going to use an allied detachment of wolves (and I have), I'd try to get 15 blood claws in a land raider crusader with a wolf priest (and wulfen stone). That will take a healthy portion of your opponent's attention, since he won't want 16 guys with rage, feel no pain, fearless, and preferred enemy (unit type) attacking whatever he brings. That will free up your guard to work with impunity. I'd recommend replacing the Lord commissar with a basic company command squad, so that you can take advantage of orders.

[duz_]

Good start

Although as mentioned I probably go for a LBRT or eradicator instead of exterminator. That's never been myou favourite variant. If going the LBRT do not include sponsons because of ordinance. Definitely check out the magnetising tutorial pinned in the barracks.

 

As for vets ML are extremely underwhelming I'd go for the cheaper AC or lascannon depending what you're lacking.

If you want them as heavy weapon support sniper rifles and forward sentries wouldn't hurt. Although you can only find sniper rifles in the CCS box if I'm correct?

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Good start

Although as mentioned I probably go for a LBRT or eradicator instead of exterminator. That's never been myou favourite variant. If going the LBRT do not include sponsons because of ordinance. Definitely check out the magnetising tutorial pinned in the barracks.

I agree, The Exterminator is just too much of a risk to my mind. Bad rolls could see it out of the game without doing anything. And It begs for PC sponsons which will skyrocket the cost. The Good Old Battle Tank is probably your best choice, as it is the most versatile choice. S8 and AP3 will give it the punch to kill marines outright, it's range keeps it protected, and ordnance gives it some solid vehicle killing potential (not as good as a vanquisher, but good enough).

 

 

As for vets ML are extremely underwhelming I'd go for the cheaper AC or lascannon depending what you're lacking.

If you want them as heavy weapon support sniper rifles and forward sentries wouldn't hurt. Although you can only find sniper rifles in the CCS box if I'm correct?

If you want versatility, the missile launcher is decent, though the lascannon would be better for killing vehicles, and the autocannon is good for killing light vehicles and most infantry. The Krak missile can be used pretty effectively, but I'm with Duz, the autocannon or lascannon might serve you better. Sniper rifles can indeed only be found in the CCS box, however, with some clever green stuffing skills, you could turn a few lasguns into long las sniper rifles.

[LiquicityShadows]

A mere 16 points will make those veterans amazing. Buy Forward Sentries. Buy 3 sniper rifles. Repeat for the other squad. Cheap, and annoys MEQ and Monstrous Creatures to no end.

I hadn't thought about this option yet. It does sound like an easy way to turn the vet's into a pseudo gunline.

Welcome to the Guard, you're definitely in the right place The Start Collecting boxes are great value for money especially when you buy online For an allied force you get the best results by doing something your primary can't - this is an easy answer for you. Guard can provide the numbers SW can't, and will bring a lot of fire power (some SW can't get) with that. Guardsmen Platoons can hold ground and provide good fire support letting your Wolves close in for the kill, something I'm sure they're like

This also provides you with the Leman Russ tank - so good the SW Primarch named himself after it no less. Heavy army and giant guns will provide an excellent armoured backbone... just be careful if you take the ordnance ones lest they accidentally hit some Marines!

So with this in mind, Vets struggle a little in that Marines can do the closing in better but if you do take some to try and keep costs/models down then make the most of their capability to take three special weapons. A missile launcher is ok, but I'm sure your Wolves can do it better. Maybe something like plasma to let them offer some solid shooting support, or maybe go cheeky and cheap and load them up on flamers (don't forget the heavy flamer!) - a nasty unit that opponents may easily ignore in favour of targeting your Marines.

The Exterminator is a nice tank, but not that special. If you're going to take a Russ, why not make the most of it? Blast templates that will easily fry your Marines as the enemy aside what about an Eradicator? Cheaper, and it will pulverise all but heavy infantry with ease letting your Marines focus on the meat of the enemy.

Do you have any modelling/colour scheme ideas?

Thanks for having me! Initially thought about giving the vets plasma guns, but it irks me that the guard don't get any plasma (or meltas foo that matter) in their normal boxes. But since the snipers that HenricusTyranicus suggested would mean that I'll have to buy blisters aswel, I probably should get used to that.

I originally went with the exterminators because of fluff reason (according to fluff, space wolves keep a few of them themselves to honour their primarch), but the eradicator sounds like excellent value after reviewing it's rules.

I haven't yet made my final choice on the color scheme. I want the guard and my space wolves to look like they are trusted allies, whilst still making both forces distinctive. I'm currently torn between a more traditional paint sheme, like my macharius has, or a mor modern cammo sheme that incorporates some little elements from my space wolves sheme.

Wargear for guard is pretty easy. What do you want them to do? Vets can actually do special weapons better than Space wolves, though not as tough. I'd invest in some transport for those vets if you can. Where your space wolves will really shine as allies is in providing the guardsmen something they lack, namely Close Combat. You've done a decent job in taking some thunderwolf cavalry. The Long Fangs are probably redundant, since guard does heavy support extremely well.

Here are some tips:

Grenadiers - take this on plasma vets, it'll decrease the likelihood of exploding on gets hot.

Forward Sentries - great for cover camping heavy weapons, tends to be a static objective camper, to take advantage of that heavy weapon.

Demolitions - Take on melta vets for trolling your opponent's tanks.

Special weapons - Guard vets can take up to three special weapons.

BS4- Vets shoot just as good as grey hunters. better if you give them orders, I've had termies die to first rank fire, second rank fire.

If I were going to use an allied detachment of wolves (and I have), I'd try to get 15 blood claws in a land raider crusader with a wolf priest (and wulfen stone). That will take a healthy portion of your opponent's attention, since he won't want 16 guys with rage, feel no pain, fearless, and preferred enemy (unit type) attacking whatever he brings. That will free up your guard to work with impunity. I'd recommend replacing the Lord commissar with a basic company command squad, so that you can take advantage of orders.

Transport for the vets are definitely on the list of things to get. I'll probably end up getting them a couple of chimeras to drive around in. I went with the thunder wolves because they are kind of my tried and true unit when it comes to my wolves (wulfen en wyrdbros being a close second). You make a good point about the long fangs, I'll probably swap them for some more toys for the guard. It is my attention to eventually swap the lord commissar for a company command squad, but seeing as they don't come with the start collecting box I went with the lord commissar for now.

Good start

As for vets ML are extremely underwhelming I'd go for the cheaper AC or lascannon depending what you're lacking.

If you want them as heavy weapon support sniper rifles and forward sentries wouldn't hurt. Although you can only find sniper rifles in the CCS box if I'm correct?

I went with the missile launchers because it's the weapon of choice of my long fangs. The autocannon and lascannon do seem like excellent choices to. I could see the autocannon work well with the snipers suggested earlier.

Good start

Although as mentioned I probably go for a LBRT or eradicator instead of exterminator. That's never been myou favourite variant. If going the LBRT do not include sponsons because of ordinance. Definitely check out the magnetising tutorial pinned in the barracks.

I agree, The Exterminator is just too much of a risk to my mind. Bad rolls could see it out of the game without doing anything. And It begs for PC sponsons which will skyrocket the cost. The Good Old Battle Tank is probably your best choice, as it is the most versatile choice. S8 and AP3 will give it the punch to kill marines outright, it's range keeps it protected, and ordnance gives it some solid vehicle killing potential (not as good as a vanquisher, but good enough).

I initially wanted to include the battle tank variant, but some quick research turned me away from it (it's not particularly popular on Dakka dakka). I'll have to reconsider though as I quite like the idea of the Leman russ's large blasts combined with the Macharius's massive blast.

[WarriorFish]

Camo is fun, I have it on my infantry but it's not for the faint hearted :P The trick is to get a good pattern, as it can't be too detailed as aside from having to paint it a lot not everything scales down well to miniature size. Otherwise it's just about the right colours :)

 

If you fancy some artillery Wyverns are mean, they will do a similar job to an Eradicator. They hit hard under weight of dice but are more fragile, so worth an idea if you're not wedded to the Russ idea (and you probably are :lol: ).

 

You can get plastic bits from the Command Squad sprue. Aside from being a good HQ choice it has lots of cool bits including a sniper rifle and plasma gun so you can help spice your blisters up with that. Otherwise it's not too much effort to steal a Marine plasma for a quick conversion, or mod up a longlas :) Don't forget to create your WIP in the barracks when you start work, they're great for showing off your work and getting help :tu:

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I initially wanted to include the battle tank variant, but some quick research turned me away from it (it's not particularly popular on Dakka dakka). I'll have to reconsider though as I quite like the idea of the Leman russ's large blasts combined with the Macharius's massive blast.  

 

Not to badmouth another community in the hobby, but Dakka Dakka is overrun by highly competitive, highly opinionated, power gamers, that really seem to just regurgitate whatever someone told them at a tournament once. They are also often wrong, because their opinions are generally crafted by their min-max-y ways, and it's all theoretical, with no experimental proof to back up their claims. I generally stay away from their tactica discussions, as I literally got, "Monoliths are dumb, noob. Get Doom scythes and spam flyers, lol. You need less warriors and more wraiths, if you're not you're dumb," When I asked how to expand my necrons.

 

Not a good first impression.

[LiquicityShadows]

Camo is fun, I have it on my infantry but it's not for the faint hearted The trick is to get a good pattern, as it can't be too detailed as aside from having to paint it a lot not everything scales down well to miniature size. Otherwise it's just about the right colours

If you fancy some artillery Wyverns are mean, they will do a similar job to an Eradicator. They hit hard under weight of dice but are more fragile, so worth an idea if you're not wedded to the Russ idea (and you probably are ).

You can get plastic bits from the Command Squad sprue. Aside from being a good HQ choice it has lots of cool bits including a sniper rifle and plasma gun so you can help spice your blisters up with that. Otherwise it's not too much effort to steal a Marine plasma for a quick conversion, or mod up a longlas Don't forget to create your WIP in the barracks when you start work, they're great for showing off your work and getting help

I'm not completely wedded to the Russ idea just yet, so there might just be room for a wyvern or two. I definitely like the look of the model.

I found someone on our local craigslist-esque-marketplace-website-thingy selling 50 guardsmen with a variety of special weapons, who is willing to sell them to me for 25 euros. That would make a nice start for the for I recon. I'll search around some more to see if anyone is selling some armour.

I initially wanted to include the battle tank variant, but some quick research turned me away from it (it's not particularly popular on Dakka dakka). I'll have to reconsider though as I quite like the idea of the Leman russ's large blasts combined with the Macharius's massive blast.

Not to badmouth another community in the hobby, but Dakka Dakka is overrun by highly competitive, highly opinionated, power gamers, that really seem to just regurgitate whatever someone told them at a tournament once. They are also often wrong, because their opinions are generally crafted by their min-max-y ways, and it's all theoretical, with no experimental proof to back up their claims. I generally stay away from their tactica discussions, as I literally got, "Monoliths are dumb, noob. Get Doom scythes and spam flyers, lol. You need less warriors and more wraiths, if you're not you're dumb," When I asked how to expand my necrons.

Not a good first impression.

I've heard this before when it comes to Dakka Dakka so no worries ;) Problem is that when you try to google anything 40K related you it's them and 1d4chan popping up the most, so it's quite easy to end up on their forum.

[the jeske]

Add 2 more models to the TWC.

Then add casters of some sort[most SW armies that run IG as ally, run them as batteries. But it would be impossible in the case of your army].

Run the Lemmans how ever you want[just please not demolisher], but try to stick to the cheaper ones. As soon as possible get command sections, trade space marine players for bolters+plasmapistols  and make your own plasma vets[as you don't have the transports to run melta vets].

 

Have you already bought the Macharius Vanquisher? Because if not then maybe holding off on it and buying the more essential stuff would be a better idea.

[LiquicityShadows]

Add 2 more models to the TWC.

Then add casters of some sort[most SW armies that run IG as ally, run them as batteries. But it would be impossible in the case of your army].

Run the Lemmans how ever you want[just please not demolisher], but try to stick to the cheaper ones. As soon as possible get command sections, trade space marine players for bolters+plasmapistols  and make your own plasma vets[as you don't have the transports to run melta vets].

 

Have you already bought the Macharius Vanquisher? Because if not then maybe holding off on it and buying the more essential stuff would be a better idea.

 

Adding more TWC is an idea I can get behind! I just bought a batch of 50 guardsmen with varius special weapons mixed in and 3 chimera of Ebay. I have lot's of plasma pistols and guns lying around from my grey hunter kits so i'll be using those to convert the plasma vets. I'll be fielding the grey hunters with meltas as I'm a bit more confident sending them in for the kill because of their higher durability. 

 

I already have the macharius, that tank is what finally pushed me to start collecting Guard :)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Run the Lemmans how ever you want[just please not demolisher], but try to stick to the cheaper ones.

Indeed pick the russ you like, or magnetize/modularize it. As for not selecting the Demolisher, I can only think of one reason that you might want to pick a different variant, and that's because Space wolves have vindicators, which have the same gun, are cheaper (even fully equipped) and faster. Other than that, the Demolisher is a perfectly good Russ to take, I play with destructable buildings rules, so the demolisher is actually pretty nice, because It can more reliably pen buildings, not to mention it's a darn good TEQ killer. It has the downsides of being as slow as other russ tanks, having a very short range gun (for a tank), and being expensive. I generally leave mine at home in favor of other variants, but I plan to get another kit, because of the other options I have (I have multiple other guns from other russ kits).