simison Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 What counts as a sub-book? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4732502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 What counts as a sub-book? 2A, 2B and 2C are sub-books of Book 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4732503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017  What counts as a sub-book? 2A, 2B and 2C are sub-books of Book 2.   Dang it, I completely forgot that was the plan for Expansion. Yes, that sounds fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4732504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 So, I'm not sure where I got mixed up, but I thought the Pale Stars region was in the Galactic North. Now I know it's near the Maelstrom. Given that one entire campaign of Retribution is devoted to the Pale Stars and the Badab War, doesn't this mean that we have enough canon material to map out the core of Icarion's empire? Â Shouldn't we use one of the planets here for the Hammers of Malis and the Morning Stars? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4741936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Reviewing our Insurgos, the only one that doesn't fit is the Ember Host, who number only 200. However, since they are all psykers, I think they can be better represented as a special psyker that can only be fielded by Traitors.  Also, do we want to hold any Insurgo forces back and debut them as more Chaos-y? I know I want to hold back the Hammers of Malis and use them either for a half-corrupted or completely corrupted force to better differentiate them from the actual Halcyon Wardens.  Of the ones listed for this book, the Shepherds aren't changing, so they're fine.  What about the Morning Stars? The Traitor Dune Serpents? The Traitor Iron Bear clans?  Redd, did you want those clans to go Chaos? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 We can used the traitors in a campaign context - like the RG and IW on Istvaan in Massacre - to soften their introduction. Give them some characters, but essentially keep their rules the same. Then unveil them corrupted Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Corrupted Morningstars already exist. They are called Void Eagles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 That Gif speaks to me on levels I can't begin to describe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Aardman will do that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Sig, as the current outline stands, what is the ratio of Traitor victories to Loyalist ones? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Sig, as the current outline stands, what is the ratio of Traitor victories to Loyalist ones? In book 2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Yes There's Icarion's early conquests which is mainly Insurrectionist victories, with Mars being the only serious Insurrectionist defeat in that time period. So Book 2A=Insurrectionist victory  The Eastern Fringe is a stalemate(although I think you could make an argument for pyrrhic victory on either side) so Book 2B=Stalemate  Iyacrax is also a stalemate.  So two stalemates, one Insurrectionist victory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4754770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 The Naagloshii and Wendiigo go hard to chaos pretty quickly and spend time in the Warp before hitting the battlefield; so they can debut later if need be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4755563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 I had an inkling, given their names. Having them show up later will give us a real chance to show off their monstrosity.  Alright, so we're just going to have the Morning Stars, the Shepherds of Eden, and the Traitor Serpents for the Insurgos this time. Which fits because all three of them are 10,000+ unlike the other Insurgos and won't be as affected by the Chaos shenanigans later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4755586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 If I can suggest an overall tone for the campaigns, we should have the Primarchs doggedly gauging what territory they can and can't hold on both sides Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4755669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 So I'm clear, how do people currently feel about Mars? Because it's quite important as early campaigns go. Though admittedly the canon Books have yet to go near it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4755684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Now that we have a clearer idea of what the Mechanicum book looks like, I am less hostile towards including it in here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4755697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Cool. Hopefully Mechanicus gives me more ideas on how to structure it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4755733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 The Morning Stars  Birthed upon the Human homeworld of Terra, the legacy of the Morning Stars began with a bright future before their tragic transformation. They valued honour and justice above even life and would reflect this as they prosecuted the Great Crusade. Whenever tyranny, whether human or xeno, ruled over the innocent, the Morning Stars assaulted from the heavens to put an end to such evil. Where foes would play foul tricks on the battlefield, the Morning Stars endured before exterminating such honourless opponents. This did not mean the Morning Stars simply existed to slay the foul and the fool. They were empire builders, seeking to fulfill the Emperor's vision as they restored Humanity to its former greatness. Throughout this time, they were viewed as heroes as worthy as the Wardens of Light, the Iron Bears, and the Shepherds of Eden. For an entire century, the Morning Stars were the IVth Legion.  Much like their cousins, the Shepherds of Eden, the discovery of their Primarch would become a mark of shame for these famed warriors. Although never as needlessly as cruel as Raktra Akarro, Yucahu Sumakutaa cared nothing for the high ideals of the Morning Stars. Instead, the Lord of the IVth cared only to carry out the mission given to him by the Emperor and was more than willing to use brutal tactics to achieve it. Although their sense of justice was offended by their new master, the code of honour that the Morning Stars lived by required their submission to their Primarch. Unlike the Shepherds of Eden, the Morning Stars were not forced to change their colours or fight in the same style as their gene-sire did. Given their own fleet within the Legion, the Morning Stars carried on with their cherished ideals throughout the Great Crusade. For a time, it appeared that the twin identities of the IVth Legion could coexist with one another.  Yet, it was not to be. Although the Morning Stars continued to prosecute the Great Crusade with their ideals intact, they could not stop the stain to their reputation that encroached upon them. For while the Morning Stars exemplified chivalry, Yucahu and the Void Eagles would not cease their honourless ways. Caring little for collateral damage, Yucahu would bombard planets into submission, regardless of civilian casualties. All that mattered to the Lord of the IVth was victory, however earned. Gradually, through no fault of their own, the Morning Stars' reputation was tainted by the deeds of their gene-sire, no matter how hard they struggled against it. As their reputation suffered, the relationship between the Morning Stars and the Void Eagles deteriorated. The final straw would be the final Rangdan Xenocide in the 950s on the Eastern Fringe. Four separate wars had been fought between the Imperium and this hated Xeno foe. In the fourth and final campaign against the Xeno, after the Emperor had broken the Labyrinth of Night, four Legions were called to destroy all tainted by the Xeno. It was during this purgation campaign that Yucahu earned the moniker 'Hellrider' for his merciless role. The Morning Stars were horrified by the Void Eagles' atrocities. While they remained part of the IVth on official rolls, the Morning Stars never again fought alongside their brothers.   Yet, it was not solely the shame of being associated with the Void Eagles that would tempt the Morning Stars away from the Imperium. Many observers had believed that their ideal of honour would forever ensure their loyalty since the Morning Stars had sworn oaths to the Emperor. That bond, however, was also strained. The Emperor's retreat to Terra and the creation of the Senatorum Imperialis shook their faith. No longer did the Emperor rule directly over his Imperium, but instead had placed such widespread power among a council, not of warriors, but of politicians. While the Warmaster created the Hands of Terra to ensure that the Legions were heard by the High Lords, it was Yucahu who was given the choice of sending a representative, not the Morning Stars. Gradually, the Morning Stars feared and were disgusted as they perceived the Great Crusade becoming a sport of bureaucrats instead of properly led by the honorable crusaders who bled on the Emperor's behalf. It would be through this combination of outrage and weariness that Icarion would turn the Morning Stars to his cause.  When the Stormborn approached the Morning Stars, it was in the guise of a fearful confidant. While no exact recording of the meeting exists, secondhand accounts tell of a dire warning of a growing tyrannical bureaucracy. The worst fears of the Morning Stars were confirmed as Icarion called upon his reputation as a seer without measure to forewarn them of an Imperium which did not deserve their honour. Murmurings of a planned betrayal only highlighted the Morning Stars' anxieties regarding the Emperor. In addition to ominous news, Icarion offered sweet promises. No longer would the Morning Stars have to trudge behind Yucahu, staining their honour in the mud because of simply who their Primarch was. Instead, Icarion vowed that they would be restored to their former reputation, finally freed from the Brass Lord. Not only that, but the Morning Stars would be given their own fief within Icarion's future empire, able to forever ensure that their ideals of justice and honour would be safeguarded regardless of circumstance. Given centuries of built-up bitterness over their fate, the Morning Stars gladly pledged themselves to the Stormborn's cause. The few dissidents were quickly and quietly eliminated, one way or another.  [After rereading the Blackshield and Shattered Legion entries in Retribution, I am ending the Morning Star general history here. Next is Command Hierarchy and then War Disposition to finish the Morning Star entry.] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4773026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Command Hierarchy  Unlike the loose organization of their parent Legion, the Morning Stars observed a strict chain of command from the lowest to the greatest.  [skal, are the Morning Stars simply using different names for their ranks or are they more unique? What does it take to get promoted among the Morning Stars? I was thinking it be tied to closely tied to honour and mention something of a Byzantine system.] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4773912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 So, I think I'll make it official and make Timur's warband the largest of the Traitor Dune Serpent formations. What should we call them? Something with Vipers? Did the historical Timur have a particularly famous formation of soldiers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4784451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 His dynasty was called the Gurkani, for what it's worth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4784482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Gurkani Vipers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/325484-black-book-the-eastern-expansion-campaigns/page/23/#findComment-4785020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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