Personal Chapter Help

[The Vagabird]

So, I'm making a chapter. I've made chapters before, but most of them were built around some kind of gimmick, whereas now I'm trying to put the finishing touches on what I want to be my personal chapter. The chapter that I'd want to lead if I was in 40k.

The lore I've mostly got fleshed out. It was difficult, as I'm trying to build them as my ideal military force, yet I've also tried to pick plenty of holes in them to better fit with the grimdark and not some off as Sues. I'll try to describe them in as concise a manner as I can.

Their history in very short form: they had a stable and expanding mini-empire that they claimed dated back to the second founding (they don't know a lot about where they came from), but their borderline-heretical practices marked them as Excommunicate Traitoris during the Age of Apostasy. Their empire was blasted back until all that was left was their homeworld, itself in shambles. When Vandire was usurped the chapter quietly crept back into the fold along with other loyalist groups that had been absolved. However, the chapter still harbors much resentment. Limited manufacturing power means they have to scavenge and outright steal relics from their allies, sometimes even abducting people they feel will be of use.



--Generic Marine, First Company (the first company, and all the odd companies, are open-warfare oriented - on even numbered companies the silver parts would be camo)

So mainly what I need help with is simple in the grand scheme of things: what in the warp do I call these guys? I've made almost all the lore, I just for the life of me can't figure out what to call them. I'm thinking perhaps "The Emancipators" but that seems a bit long, and doesn't follow the usual The [Adjective] [Nouns] scheme. Also: what would their chapter symbol be? They'd need to have recurring motifs, but what does an "Emancipator" look like?

Further lore details for people who may want more substance, feel free to comment, I appreciate any help:

Their home planet, though still bearing the scars of war, is actually an extremely nice - if melancholy - place to live. The marines hold stewardship and unofficial absolute power, essentially still having a dangerously independent little kingdom, making up for their lack of resources with heavy amounts of specialists (they steal away scientists and other such sorts to serve on their planet, as well as a sect of the Mechanicus that helps them out of fear of being branded heretics if the truth outed).

Home planet is a rain and fog-heavy civilized world, mostly farms, wilderness, and a few hives for processing (as well as a refugee AdMech group). Culture is a mix of various northern cultures: British Isles, Scandinavia, Native American, Slav, bit of Asian. Despite the infrastructure issues, isolationism, and secrecy, the planet is actually quite nice civilly and environmentally (though it does mean badasses have to be trained, not just naturally produced).

The chapter tries its best to make its planet the best it can be, though with so many secrets to be kept from the Imperium it's an uphill battle. The marines themselves are quite nice to the non-augmented, and have an extremely large compliment of serfs. Though the chapter trains a large amount of specialists, and has its companies split into five "bright and shining warfare" and five "sneaky and deceptive" groups, they still tend to be under-marined and subsist on loot, so they have their serfs play a more active role (driving vehicles and such). However, when it comes to their enemies and allies they don't trust, they have no compunctions about using every trick at their disposal.

I can provide further details on request, but as I'm just trying to get the name and symbol right now I feel the most important details are: nice guys, rain world, jack-of-all-trades, secretive, northern vibe. Hell, I chose "Emancipators" as their demo name because their homeworld is inspired by the music of Emancipator - cold, rainy, and beautiful.

Sorry if this was too long, thank you for any help!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

An "Emancipator" is one who liberates others from slavery (see Abraham Lincoln). One alternative I thought of, after reading your description of the Chapter History, is "Iconoclast," historically a sect of Orthodox Christians who view images of the saints as idols- an insult to the very saints these images were meant to honor- and thus, "false gods" that must be destroyed. In that vein, your Chapter sees the Ecclesiarchy's behavior as worshiping "false gods" before the True God (the Emperor), and thus, the Ecclesiarchy and its actions must be fought- failure to do so will allow another Goge Vandire to arise, another Reign of Blood and Plague of Unbelief to occur, and the Chapter itself once again pushed to the edge of extinction.

Warning: Such beliefs may win your Chapter allies in the Adeptus Mechanicus, radical Inquisitors, the Space Wolves and other nonconformist Chapters; but it will certainly put them in the gun sights of many devout groups in the Imperium. After its experiences in the Reign of Blood, however, your Chapter may view such hostility as "same , different day."

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I just looked up the name "Iconoclasts" on Lexicanum, and found an article on a Chaos Space Marine warband. I apologize if the name suggestion is bad, if your intent was to create a LOYALIST Chapter.

[The Vagabird]

I just looked up the name "Iconoclasts" on Lexicanum, and found an article on a Chaos Space Marine warband. I apologize if the name suggestion is bad, if your intent was to create a LOYALIST Chapter.

I do intend for these guys to be loyalist. They're similar to the Soul Drinkers in that they dislike the Imperium but fight for its more noble ideas. Of course unlike the Soul Drinkers they keep the dissent on the DL to avoid pissing people off.

 

I appreciate the help, even if it doesn't hit the mark, this is my first time posting on the B&C.

[Erasus]

Hello!

 

Well done for posting here, it takes more courage than some know to put your brain child before those waiting to pick it apart. What you have is not bad, it's good. I'm sure you've got loads more details in the wings as well. A few questions first;

 

What is the semi-heretical thing that caused them to lose their mini empire?

What is their goal?

Do they have a spiritual ethos at all?

 

I know you said you're going for a 'nice guy' feel, but after reading the short bio I'm getting a distinctly 'Cold War Russia Slaver' vibe. They steal people, and force them to work for them. They've enlisted the majority of the populace into their schemes rather than letting them be. To me there's a strong "you're with us now" vibe.

 

I mean they may not realise how bad they are in this regard, viewing themselves as the good guys in all things. It's an interesting delusion if you choose to use it, if not then I personally think you need to modify the 'they steal people to work for them' concept.

 

In terms of a name, it doesn't need to be [adjective] + [noun]. There's generally 4 ways to go about it;

1) [adjective] e.g. Salamanders, Marauders, Rampagers, Relictors

2) [adjective]+[noun] e.g.White Scars, Black Templars, Carmine Blades

3) [noun]+[noun] e.g. Raven Guard, Storm Wardens, Shadow Falcons

4) [noun] of [noun] e.g. Patriarchs of Ulixis, Sons of Antaeus

Technically there's also [verb]+[noun] such as the Avenging Sons as well but it's a seldom used configuration

[The Vagabird]

Well done for posting here, it takes more courage than some know to put your brain child before those waiting to pick it apart. What you have is not bad, it's good. I'm sure you've got loads more details in the wings as well. A few questions first;

 

What is the semi-heretical thing that caused them to lose their mini empire?

What is their goal?

Do they have a spiritual ethos at all?

 

I know you said you're going for a 'nice guy' feel, but after reading the short bio I'm getting a distinctly 'Cold War Russia Slaver' vibe. They steal people, and force them to work for them. They've enlisted the majority of the populace into their schemes rather than letting them be. To me there's a strong "you're with us now" vibe.

 

I mean they may not realise how bad they are in this regard, viewing themselves as the good guys in all things. It's an interesting delusion if you choose to use it, if not then I personally think you need to modify the 'they steal people to work for them' concept.

 

First of all thank you for the support!

 

Part of the "heretical thing" was the fact that they were building an empire. They were pushing at the boundaries of a Codex-compliant chapter, and had multiple institutions in their pocket, such as their own auxiliary military loyal to them, their own fleet, and were largely self-sufficient and expansionist. This, on top of the fact that as time went on the disagreed more and more with the Imperium and their ethos.

 

They themselves have a personal philosophy centered around truth and rationalism. They view the Imperium as the best bet for humanity, though they still detest it for being horribly corrupt. They will work and trade with xenos, though they trust them even less than the Imperium. The elites of the chapter are also engaged in all manner of heretical research as well - delving into the secrets of the Warp, the history of the Imperium, and the nature of the galaxy as large.

 

Knowledge is extremely important to them. Artifacts, research, anything that can be used to ensure their own survival and power - nowadays more survival after they lost all their power. When I say they "abduct" people, it's a sort of morally grey offer-they-can't-refuse. Notable scientists, strategists, even sometimes artists and warriors, are given the option of returning to the chapter's homeworld (with the perks of citizenship) to aid their efforts - with a vague knowledge of the risks.

 

I want them to at their core be good guys - good guys who have to do dark things due to the nature of the universe they live in. They detest slavery, superstition, cruelty, and the like, but the fact that their closest allies would kill them for heresy if they knew the whole truth means that they have to resort to secrecy, abduction, and looting.

[Erasus]

Hello again!

 

So, in these conversations I tend to act as a soundboard unintentionally, due to my own genuine curiosity. So I will be firing questions at you like a giddy cultist with his first autogun. Unlike that lucky cultist, I'm not aiming to hurt you, it is simply curiosity, so please don't take offence.

 

You said people are offered an "offer they can't refuse", what happens when they do refuse? Or they've approached someone who isn't as keen on answers as they thought they were? Do they kill them? Or risk discovery? Could you see how this is construed as simply abduction under the guise of a choice? How would they approach these individuals without drawing attention to themselves? Vast spy network is not an acceptable answer I'm afraid, too Inquisitiony.

 

Next, "hate superstition", why have a Kabal of the most superstitious people then? Sure I can appreciate the AdMech's abilities but even the Emperor allowed (if not encouraged) this superstitious ethos. How does the Chapter tolerate the machine rites? Do they believe in machine spirits?

How do they feel about the Ecclesiarchy?

What's their thoughts on Living Saints?

How did they come to this ethos? As they would have assuredly come into existence into a superstitious galaxy from a superstitious culture to defend a superstitious empire. Did this come from the Crusade when the Emp spouted logic?

Is their research into the warp a cold, calculated look at the empyrean energies or do they study the symbolism of the rituals, the emotional origins and arcane implications of the ruinous powers?

How do they feel about ghosts?

And their dead?

Do they believe the "Emperor protects"?

 

What was your personal inspiration for the colour scheme? I like it by the way.

 

How do they cope with believing in the truth when they must lie and omit so much?

 

Why did the Imperium allow them to survive at all? Did anyone accuse the geneseed of being corrupted with overweening ambition? Did they fulfil a Penitent Crusade?

 

How do they feel about the Inquisition? Do they play along when it comes to genocide to eliminate the corruption? Or do their lack of superstitions lead them to disbelief the Inquisitiona claims of spiritual corruption? How do they feel about the Inquisition's secrecy? Especially when compared to their own secrecy?

 

Many Chapters have their own fleet and are self sufficient. Expansionism however is a grey area where some get away with it and some don't, for example the Black Templars are constantly erecting new Keeps but no one bats an eyelid at it. Yet empire building is one of apparently the High Lords' biggest fears with the Astartes. Was it the secessionist vibe?

 

Why do they trade with xenos? Especially if they trust them less than the hated, corrupted Imperium? Do they believe in coexistence? What's their thoughts on the Tau?

 

Has any of the heretics research gone wrong? Like possession or minor warp portals and Daemonic encroachment?

How do they keep this from Inquistiors looking for the same artefacts, as well as people who would use them?

Has the Chapter ever had disagreements on the direction of research?

Sounds like the Dark Mechanicum would be better suited to your needs than the AdMech, seeing as all the things you've listed are things they want to know whereas the AdMech want to catalogue it but lock it up and not understand it.

 

How can they research the Imperium's history and not know who they came from? Is this due to personal indecision or a purposeful omission?

 

Is the whole research bit an effort for the Chapter to know things that normally a Chapter wouldn't? I.e. the merging of in-universe and player knowledge?

 

Click-click

 

Click . . .

 

Damn, the magazine is out. I need to reload and reasses. As any good cultist I am hoping to see some stern return fire, need to stir up sufficient conflict for the Architect of Fate to deliver my answers after all :)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

 

 

They themselves have a personal philosophy centered around truth and rationalism. They view the Imperium as the best bet for humanity, though they still detest it for being horribly corrupt. They will work and trade with xenos, though they trust them even less than the Imperium. The elites of the chapter are also engaged in all manner of heretical research as well - delving into the secrets of the Warp, the history of the Imperium, and the nature of the galaxy as large.

 

Knowledge is extremely important to them. Artifacts, research, anything that can be used to ensure their own survival and power - nowadays more survival after they lost all their power. When I say they "abduct" people, it's a sort of morally grey offer-they-can't-refuse. Notable scientists, strategists, even sometimes artists and warriors, are given the option of returning to the chapter's homeworld (with the perks of citizenship) to aid their efforts - with a vague knowledge of the risks.

 

I want them to at their core be good guys - good guys who have to do dark things due to the nature of the universe they live in. They detest slavery, superstition, cruelty, and the like, but the fact that their closest allies would kill them for heresy if they knew the whole truth means that they have to resort to secrecy, abduction, and looting.

Warning: This sounds extremely similar to the Blood Ravens' beliefs- hell, older canon stated its Marines were among the few non-Eldar who were granted access to the Black Library. If you maintain the Chapter beliefs as is, others may accuse you of plagiarism.

 

 

NSFW link removed.

[The Vagabird]

Wow, I didn't expect such interest in the lore! I mean I appreciate it, constructive critique is useful for iron out kinks and I'm always happy to talk about my creation. I was just expecting to get a name and symbol and run off!

 

You said people are offered an "offer they can't refuse", what happens when they do refuse? Or they've approached someone who isn't as keen on answers as they thought they were? Do they kill them? Or risk discovery? Could you see how this is construed as simply abduction under the guise of a choice? How would they approach these individuals without drawing attention to themselves? Vast spy network is not an acceptable answer I'm afraid, too Inquisitiony.

 

If the person refuses then they refuse - the chapter won't tell them the fine details unless they agree to come back. Of course, if they get suspicious and hostile or change their minds after they've already start working - well, unfortunately they'll be made to disappear. It's a dark undertaking, but usually the hospitality of the chapter is enough to change minds. In terms of tracking down people and things they want, they don't have spies but just keep an ear out for anything that sounds promising. Hell, even showing up to save some hapless planet or beleaguered allies opens the opportunity to gather loot as "payment", not to mention they just view it as their duty to help people.

 

 

 

Next, "hate superstition", why have a Kabal of the most superstitious people then? Sure I can appreciate the AdMech's abilities but even the Emperor allowed (if not encouraged) this superstitious ethos. How does the Chapter tolerate the machine rites? Do they believe in machine spirits? 
How do they feel about the Ecclesiarchy? 
What's their thoughts on Living Saints? 
How did they come to this ethos? As they would have assuredly come into existence into a superstitious galaxy from a superstitious culture to defend a superstitious empire. Did this come from the Crusade when the Emp spouted logic? 
Is their research into the warp a cold, calculated look at the empyrean energies or do they study the symbolism of the rituals, the emotional origins and arcane implications of the ruinous powers? 
How do they feel about ghosts? 
And their dead? 
Do they believe the "Emperor protects"?

 

The upper echelons of the chapter (the chapter master, librarius, captains, forge, etc) form a sort of "inner circle" which - in addition to their normal duties - pursues the truths of the galaxy. This is somewhat of an attempt to merge personal knowledge and in-universe knowledge, but the certainly don't know everything. Especially when it comes to the Empyrean, when their scientific methods of research tend to fall short. They acknowledge that magic and the supernatural exist, but they see it as simply another thing to be researched. These are sort of holdovers from the Great Crusade (which they may have been around for), this idea of conquering the hostile and unknown. They hate the Ecclesiarchy, though they like the Big E.

 

 

 

What was your personal inspiration for the colour scheme? I like it by the way. 

How do they cope with believing in the truth when they must lie and omit so much? 

Why did the Imperium allow them to survive at all? Did anyone accuse the geneseed of being corrupted with overweening ambition? Did they fulfil a Penitent Crusade? 

How do they feel about the Inquisition? Do they play along when it comes to genocide to eliminate the corruption? Or do their lack of superstitions lead them to disbelief the Inquisitiona claims of spiritual corruption? How do they feel about the Inquisition's secrecy? Especially when compared to their own secrecy? 

Many Chapters have their own fleet and are self sufficient. Expansionism however is a grey area where some get away with it and some don't, for example the Black Templars are constantly erecting new Keeps but no one bats an eyelid at it. Yet empire building is one of apparently the High Lords' biggest fears with the Astartes. Was it the secessionist vibe? 

Why do they trade with xenos? Especially if they trust them less than the hated, corrupted Imperium? Do they believe in coexistence? What's their thoughts on the Tau? 

 

The color scheme uses a dark teal I think gives of a strong, chill vibe. I made the extremities (at least on the odd-companies) silver to give them a more knightly appearance. It's a color scheme I'm fond of.

 

They are obviously a very conflicted chapter. It's a constant struggle with despair at the grim nature of their situation. Part of the duties of the high command, especially the Librarians, is the tempering of the quite bipolar disposition of their warriors. They've survived this long through a combination of intense secrecy and being friendly to their allies to shift away suspicions. The only reason they perhaps weren't outright destroyed after their decimation during the Reign of Blood was due to how many other loyal institutions had been branded by Vandire just to come back into the fold. Hell, the Fists besieged Terra and got away with it.

 

The Inquisition is a moment-by-moment thing. Obviously they get on better with radicals than puritans. They really don't like being involved in Exterminatus. More than one captain has gone almost insane after an undertaking like that. One thing they do quite like is the Deathwatch. Of the few times they've had brothers seconded they viewed it as a prime opportunity to reinforce their loyalty, observe the tactics of their allies, and gain lots of experience and possibly artifacts. Of course, the high command tends to have a long "talk" with the brother before they leave. It's also worth noting they're never really vehement to anyone unless given reason to. Their code of honor dictates they show respect and appreciation towards their allies, and temperance and compassion to those below them - this also doubles as a way to keep people from forming vendettas against them, though it can bite them sometimes.

 

It was the secessionist vibe. They wanted to basically reforge all the planets they controlled into something more suiting their outlook.

 

They do not trust xenos but do know opportunities to avoid violence and gain resources when they see it. The Tau, with their Greater Good, can be hit or miss despite their abundant wealth, but marine leaders always listen when any Eldar decide to speak up, even if they expect the worst.

 

 

 

Has any of the heretics research gone wrong? Like possession or minor warp portals and Daemonic encroachment? 
How do they keep this from Inquistiors looking for the same artefacts, as well as people who would use them? 
Has the Chapter ever had disagreements on the direction of research? 
Sounds like the Dark Mechanicum would be better suited to your needs than the AdMech, seeing as all the things you've listed are things they want to know whereas the AdMech want to catalogue it but lock it up and not understand it. 

 

If they did they were quickly silenced. Their research stations are hidden deep within the crust of their planet's moon. It's a dungeon of secrets. If disagreements pop up they're usually settled by the high command. There have been some tense issues but they've never really had a schism.

 

The chapter doesn't research the Warp to harness demon power, they do it so they're not in the dark as it what they're fighting. The AdMech is important to them but also very dangerous to tangle with. They get around this somewhat by the fact that their system used to have a forge world in it, which was caught in the crossfire during the Reign of Blood incident. The refugees were given haven on their chapter planet, and over the millennia the Mechanicum refugees have become more and more lax, basically drawn into the same "we must survive" attitude as the chapter. The sect still tries to uphold their practices, but the fear of being labelled heretics by their Martian brethren means they ultimately are subservient to the chapter. They do things like maintain civilian and military machinery, and sign documents meant to avert the gaze of Mars. In turn they get the protection and resources of the chapter, as well as a fiefdom.

 

 

 

How can they research the Imperium's history and not know who they came from? Is this due to personal indecision or a purposeful omission? 

Is the whole research bit an effort for the Chapter to know things that normally a Chapter wouldn't? I.e. the merging of in-universe and player knowledge? 

 

A bit of both. They have elements of many different chapters, so ultimately I just decided that even I don't know where they came from. They claim to have been around since the Crusade so I can justify them having FW bits (or maybe they just stole them from other chapters??). All I know is that they've been around since at least before the Age of Apostasy.

 

Also yes to the second one, but they don't know everything. There are some things in the lore which they would just have no way of knowing, not to mention there's tons of stuff that I and the fandom at large don't know. I just wanted them to be a bit more well-read as a chapter.

 

Whew! That's a lot. Thanks for the interest, this is a very inviting board! :D

[The Vagabird]

 

Warning: This sounds extremely similar to the Blood Ravens' beliefs- hell, older canon stated its Marines were among the few non-Eldar who were granted access to the Black Library. If you maintain the Chapter beliefs as is, others may accuse you of plagiarism.

 

Yeah I know they share a lot in common with the Blood Ravens. They have bits in common with a lot of chapters and factions through no intent of my own. The fact is pretty much every gimmick has already been taken in 40k at some point or another.

 

The looting and research things are more to do with their appearance - I wanted to have a lot of the cooler models and bits available to use if I ever made a proper army out of these guys. Really I wanted their focus to be more on the effort required to uphold nobility and knowledge in a universe of hatred and ignorance. That's where I try to center the vibe of this chapter: they want to be noble philosopher kings, but they're forced to be scavenging manipulators.

 

 

Quoted NSFW link removed.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

 Really I wanted their focus to be more on the effort required to uphold nobility and knowledge in a universe of hatred and ignorance. That's where I try to center the vibe of this chapter: they want to be noble philosopher kings, but they're forced to be scavenging manipulators.

The fact your personal Chapter is violating its own ideals, makes me suspect one of the following will happen to the Marines:

 

1) They practice self-flagellation and other rituals to punish themselves for their sins. If they're an Imperial Fists descendant, a Pain Glove will be used.

 

2) They justify such actions as "committing a lesser evil in order to achieve a greater good," and are sliding down the slippery slope towards outright treason and Chaos worship.

 

If neither is the case, you need to think carefully on what justification to present to other board members, to convince us this is not so.

[Tyriks]

Do you want them to uphold nobility from a western 21st century standard? Or from a 40k standard, or some other period/culture from history? If it's not one present in 40k, where did they get it from? Perhaps from their studies?

[The Vagabird]

Do you want them to uphold nobility from a western 21st century standard? Or from a 40k standard, or some other period/culture from history? If it's not one present in 40k, where did they get it from? Perhaps from their studies?

There are chapters in the 41st milennium that do have some pretty strait moral codes. Everyone needs to get their hands more or less dirty, but people like the Salamanders, Lamenters, some of the nicer 1st founders, have an idea of why they should fight these fights BEYOND just "the Emperor said so". They have ideals of nobility. These guys have slowly built up a moral code over the milennia, and are fighting desperately to straddle the line between doing what's right and doing what must be done. Like I said, they want to be philosopher kings, but they're forced to be secretive looters.

[Tyriks]

Well, every chapter (or most) have a moral code and sense of honor, it just differs wildly from ours. What I was asking is: would theirs be more like ours (as modern day westerners) or like another code of honor? If so, what is it, and how'd they pick it up?

[The Vagabird]

Well, every chapter (or most) have a moral code and sense of honor, it just differs wildly from ours. What I was asking is: would theirs be more like ours (as modern day westerners) or like another code of honor? If so, what is it, and how'd they pick it up?

 

Their code consists of protecting the innocent, not giving in to wanton cruelty, and doing things in an efficient manner. They seek out answers in the universe, in an attempt to find meaning and direction. Of course, they're surrounded by ignorance, cruelty, enemies incapable of reason, and entities beyond reason, so it's difficult. However, they see that in some small way good acts beget good results, even if it's through sacrifice. The Wolves, the Salamanders, the Lamenters, true heroes of the Guard - they've studied these things and hope that even in some small way they can prevent suffering, or at least avenge it.

 

Of course at the end of the day that's a hard thing to uphold. Normal battle brothers, when not engaged in combat or training, usually give themselves over to meditative practices to stave off despair. Problem cases often receive help from the Apothecaries and Librarians, which can range from anything from an actual inspiring speech to being dosed up on drugs and mind-cleansing. The leaders of the chapter are chosen not just based on combat skill, but strength of will, and their ability to inspire.

 

They're essentially the result of me making a chapter of idealistic heroes, and then absolutely beating the crap out of them with nihilism and the grim nature of the 40k universe.

[Brother-Sergeant Valorum]

I'm thinking the name could be something like the "Weeping Avengers" or the "Penitent Sons." Something along those lines. Their unusual (for Space Marines) sense of empathy for the weak, desire to avenge past wrongs, and tragic past can contribute to these sorts of tragic names. Maybe for a symbol, a weeping skull (maybe a hooded skull?) or a broken sword/hammer/skull/Aquila? Just some ideas, seeing as it seems like you wanted a name and symbol first and foremost.