b1soul Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 As a fan of the Vth, I feel almost blessed to have received BotS, Scars, and PoH . . . three very strong works by Wraight, one of BL's finest authours. I note that Chris's afterword for PoH says: We’ve seen impetuous primarchs rush into ill-advised fights many times, and it’s the Khan’s abnegation that ultimately secures his Legion’s survival. His finest hour is yet to come. So, there are still stories to tell, and the V Legion’s part in the culmination of the Horus Heresy drama is not yet over Obviously, we will see the Vth at the Siege...but will they get their own book? Would that even make sense? I honestly think the Siege could be covered by several Legion-centric novels. One of those could focus on the Death Guard vs. the White Scars at the Lion's Gate Spaceport I don't think there's anything else to justify a novel prominently focusing on the Scars...though I think perhaps the Khan could assist the Emperor in the Webway War Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I'm thinking the same. Anyway, Wraight needs time to write a novel for another Legion before Terra ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 As a fan of the Vth, I feel almost blessed to have received BotS, Scars, and PoH . . . three very strong works by Wraight, one of BL's finest authours. I note that Chris's afterword for PoH says: We’ve seen impetuous primarchs rush into ill-advised fights many times, and it’s the Khan’s abnegation that ultimately secures his Legion’s survival. His finest hour is yet to come. So, there are still stories to tell, and the V Legion’s part in the culmination of the Horus Heresy drama is not yet over Obviously, we will see the Vth at the Siege...but will they get their own book? Would that even make sense? I honestly think the Siege could be covered by several Legion-centric novels. One of those could focus on the Death Guard vs. the White Scars at the Lion's Gate Spaceport I don't think there's anything else to justify a novel prominently focusing on the Scars...though I think perhaps the Khan could assist the Emperor in the Webway War depends on where the inspo comes from. some might have argued pre "scars" that there was no justification for any ws novels at all until the siege. but mostly, i just really like the idea of a per legion pov novel of the siege. unfortunately, the quality would probably vary wildly and it's one of those times that BL would have to buck its policy and have the different writers work in concert. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I think he'll probably take a backseat in a Mortarion novel. Switching roles, as it were, with the focus on the Death Guard, but Jaghatai and the Vth still prominent as antagonists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Nah, I think Mortarion needs to stew for a good while with the Khan out of reach. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 I think he'll probably take a backseat in a Mortarion novel. Switching roles, as it were, with the focus on the Death Guard, but Jaghatai and the Vth still prominent as antagonists. Seems there might be a DG novel about Mortarion’s search for Typhon Though I doubt the Vth will have much to do with that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Is it worth reading VS to understand the backstory a bit better? If not, could someone please pop the details in a spoiler for me (I get that Grulgor is involved) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I'd say yes. The depiction of Mortarion is a bit haphazard, not on the level of Wraight's or even just Swallow's, but its a piece that belongs regardless. In a way, Mortarion is flip-flopping a little. In TPoH, he is back to denying the witch, whereas in VS, he tried to use it for his own gain and probably ended up loathing himself for it. There's bound to be a reckoning the next time he gets a novel, and Grulgor will be vital in it I believe. Honestly, Vengeful Spirit, while bumpy in places, should be a mandatory read. It is a milestone for Horus, Fulgrim and Mortarion and ties up a bunch of plotlines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 VS, or Horus Lupercal and the Magic Door. It's a milestone for Mortarion, alright, wherein the established character simply transitions, with no intervening process of change, into what might as well be an entirely new character. And then, the next time we see him after that, we're back on the track before, with a passage that more or less says "well, that was weird - now, where was I?" I'm not sure VS should be encouraged. (Similarly, I don't think False Gods should be held up as the definitive story for why Horus turned on the Emperor.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Mortarion's lost weekend maybe, only everyone keeps trying to remind him of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 Wraight mentions the many times we’ve seen primarchs rush impetuously into fights... 1. Ferrus getting himself killed vs. Fulgrim 2. Russ thinking he can teach Angron a lesson 3. The Lion and Guilliman almost getting blown up by Curze Any others? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I'm thinking the same. Anyway, Wraight needs time to write a novel for another Legion before Terra Death guard are waiting for him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I think he'll probably take a backseat in a Mortarion novel. Switching roles, as it were, with the focus on the Death Guard, but Jaghatai and the Vth still prominent as antagonists. Seems there might be a DG novel about Mortarion’s search for Typhon Though I doubt the Vth will have much to do with that Novella for sure Mortarion's lost weekend maybe, only everyone keeps trying to remind him of it. We still haven't seen a true justification for Mortarion hate of the Empra. Ok he killed Barbarus Overlords himself - poor poor Mortarion was left on the side. End? For that you hate your father who saved you from :cuss? Very logical Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 We still haven't seen a true justification for Mortarion hate of the Empra. Ok he killed Barbarus Overlords himself - poor poor Mortarion was left on the side. End? For that you hate your father who saved you from ? Very logical It's not spelled out, but I think it has to do with Mortarion viewing the Emperor as a parallel for the alien overlords of Barbarus - distant, untouchable, uncaring of ordinary people, callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths. I'm sure it wouldn't occur to Mortarion how deliciously ironic this viewpoint would actually be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 We still haven't seen a true justification for Mortarion hate of the Empra. Ok he killed Barbarus Overlords himself - poor poor Mortarion was left on the side. End? For that you hate your father who saved you from ? Very logical There was also the Emperor being too lenient on Psykers, even after Nikea, as touched upon in Daemonology. I also thought the main reason was that The Big E ended up being the kind of tyrant Mortarion had fought against on Barabus, but I can't remember if that was actually explained in a novel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4507761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 We still haven't seen a true justification for Mortarion hate of the Empra. Ok he killed Barbarus Overlords himself - poor poor Mortarion was left on the side. End? For that you hate your father who saved you from ? Very logical It's not spelled out, but I think it has to do with Mortarion viewing the Emperor as a parallel for the alien overlords of Barbarus - distant, untouchable, uncaring of ordinary people, callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths. I'm sure it wouldn't occur to Mortarion how deliciously ironic this viewpoint would actually be. The point is that Mortarion never cared for the people of Barbarus. He used them to get overlords. So the point 'uncaring of ordinary people' is definitely not about him. 'callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths' - what Mortarion did too, except he explain it as sacrifices to free Barbarus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4508644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 We still haven't seen a true justification for Mortarion hate of the Empra. Ok he killed Barbarus Overlords himself - poor poor Mortarion was left on the side. End? For that you hate your father who saved you from ? Very logical It's not spelled out, but I think it has to do with Mortarion viewing the Emperor as a parallel for the alien overlords of Barbarus - distant, untouchable, uncaring of ordinary people, callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths. I'm sure it wouldn't occur to Mortarion how deliciously ironic this viewpoint would actually be. The point is that Mortarion never cared for the people of Barbarus. He used them to get overlords. So the point 'uncaring of ordinary people' is definitely not about him. 'callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths' - what Mortarion did too, except he explain it as sacrifices to free Barbarus. Have you ever thought that you can care about the people without caring about the persons? Just because he ordered a huge number to their deaths doesn't mean he didn't care about the people. It means he saw victory as more important than their comfort and the collective as more important than the individual. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4510224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I would say they would play a big part in a novel along with the others is more likely the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4510783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Wraight mentions the many times we’ve seen primarchs rush impetuously into fights... 1. Ferrus getting himself killed vs. Fulgrim 2. Russ thinking he can teach Angron a lesson 3. The Lion and Guilliman almost getting blown up by Curze Any others? 4. Russ lowering the Hrafnkel's shields in the hope that Alpharius will come to fight him 5. Lorgar taking on Corvus, fatalistically to be fair 6. Horus on Davin's moon 7. Mortarion trapping himself on the Swordstorm 8. Angron getting himself surrounded by Russ' warriors because he just charged at his brother without any tactical considerations 9. Angron derailing Horus' schedule on Istvan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4510889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 Wraight mentions the many times we’ve seen primarchs rush impetuously into fights... 1. Ferrus getting himself killed vs. Fulgrim 2. Russ thinking he can teach Angron a lesson 3. The Lion and Guilliman almost getting blown up by Curze Any others? 4. Russ lowering the Hrafnkel's shields in the hope that Alpharius will come to fight him5. Lorgar taking on Corvus, fatalistically to be fair 6. Horus on Davin's moon 7. Mortarion trapping himself on the Swordstorm 8. Angron getting himself surrounded by Russ' warriors because he just charged at his brother without any tactical considerations 9. Angron derailing Horus' schedule on Istvan Angron does get surrounded but Russ charges Angron...not the other way around Lorgar vs. Corax is a great example Could even say Magnus' decision to fight Russ despite the battle already having been already lost is a dumb move by Magnus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4510967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 OK, but Angron engages without any consideration for his own safety. Also Fulgrim's boarding action against the Diasporex would've got him killed if not for Ferrus taking the hit for him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4510971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 We still haven't seen a true justification for Mortarion hate of the Empra. Ok he killed Barbarus Overlords himself - poor poor Mortarion was left on the side. End? For that you hate your father who saved you from ? Very logical It's not spelled out, but I think it has to do with Mortarion viewing the Emperor as a parallel for the alien overlords of Barbarus - distant, untouchable, uncaring of ordinary people, callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths. I'm sure it wouldn't occur to Mortarion how deliciously ironic this viewpoint would actually be. The point is that Mortarion never cared for the people of Barbarus. He used them to get overlords. So the point 'uncaring of ordinary people' is definitely not about him. 'callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths' - what Mortarion did too, except he explain it as sacrifices to free Barbarus. Have you ever thought that you can care about the people without caring about the persons? Just because he ordered a huge number to their deaths doesn't mean he didn't care about the people. It means he saw victory as more important than their comfort and the collective as more important than the individual. Are we talking about the same Morty? The one depicted in all the HH books so far? Cause it seems you do read about Sanguinius or Guilliman and think that you read about Morty Wraight mentions the many times we’ve seen primarchs rush impetuously into fights... 1. Ferrus getting himself killed vs. Fulgrim 2. Russ thinking he can teach Angron a lesson 3. The Lion and Guilliman almost getting blown up by Curze Any others? 4. Russ lowering the Hrafnkel's shields in the hope that Alpharius will come to fight him5. Lorgar taking on Corvus, fatalistically to be fair 6. Horus on Davin's moon 7. Mortarion trapping himself on the Swordstorm 8. Angron getting himself surrounded by Russ' warriors because he just charged at his brother without any tactical considerations 9. Angron derailing Horus' schedule on Istvan Angron does get surrounded but Russ charges Angron...not the other way around Lorgar vs. Corax is a great example Could even say Magnus' decision to fight Russ despite the battle already having been already lost is a dumb move by Magnus That was another point from 'I need to suffer for my transgressions. So let's Russ kill me'. Lorgar on the other hand from the 'First Heretic' - yes, that's great example. OK, but Angron engages without any consideration for his own safety. Also Fulgrim's boarding action against the Diasporex would've got him killed if not for Ferrus taking the hit for him I'm sure Ferrus head is still regret that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4512230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 The FW book 1 Betrayal goes into Morty and Dad's quality time together on Barbarus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4512671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 The point is that Mortarion never cared for the people of Barbarus. He used them to get overlords. So the point 'uncaring of ordinary people' is definitely not about him. 'callously ordering the teeming masses to their deaths' - what Mortarion did too, except he explain it as sacrifices to free Barbarus. Hence me saying Mortarion's viewpoint is ironic... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4513112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 Really? My theory was proven right? Awesome. I always argued that the Mortician :) never cared anything about anyone especially given his Legions practices during the GC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/326013-after-poh-would-another-full-ws-novel-make-sense/#findComment-4514799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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