2500 Pt. Emperor's Children

[ravenglass]

List number two of the potential Birthday Buys!

 

+++ 2500 Marine (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (310pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (135pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····May be upgraded to one of these Consul roles: [Legion Champion]

 

Legion Praetor (175pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Melta Bombs, Paragon Blade, Sonic Shrieker]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····Master of the Legion [The Maru Skara]

 

+ Troops (490pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (245pts) [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (245pts) [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Elites (790pts) +

 

Apothecarion Detachment (120pts)

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (335pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Marksmen, Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Gun, 4x Power Weapon]

····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade, Extra Armour]

····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (335pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Marksmen, Melta Bombs, 2x Plasma Gun, 4x Power Weapon]

····Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade, Extra Armour]

····Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Phoenix Spear]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Fast Attack (460pts) +

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (230pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (230pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

 

+ Heavy Support (450pts) +

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (230pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Lascannons]

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (220pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Twin-Linked Bolter]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children, Loyalist]

 

The idea is to use the Maru Skara to guarantee turn two Outflanking Lightnings, and for the rest if the army to advance up the board with the Vets supporting the tacticals against anything that needs softening up before a charge.

[Trydragon]

I see not real issues with this list other then my Inner IH saying it needs more tanks :D

[Caillum]

I'd swap the ramjet diffraction grids on the Lightnings for ground tracking auguries - making them BS5 is a much better investment than +1 Side and Rear Armour on a flimsy 2HP Flyer.

 

I'd also grab dozer blades for every tank you have - I cannot overstate how important they are. Swap the Venator's auxiliary drive for one too - they are twice the price and very situational.

 

Maybe swap the Chaplains refractor field for a boarding shield? It will give his squad a nice defensive buff.

 

20-man Tactical Squads are hard to work with. Dropping them to 15 will make them a lot less unwieldy on the battlefield, but won't really reduce their effectiveness.

 

Finally, why don't you have a Paragon blade on your Praetor? :)

[ravenglass]

I'd swap the ramjet diffraction grids on the Lightnings for ground tracking auguries - making them BS5 is a much better investment than +1 Side and Rear Armour on a flimsy 2HP Flyer.

I'd also grab dozer blades for every tank you have - I cannot overstate how important they are. Swap the Venator's auxiliary drive for one too - they are twice the price and very situational.

Maybe swap the Chaplains refractor field for a boarding shield? It will give his squad a nice defensive buff.

20-man Tactical Squads are hard to work with. Dropping them to 15 will make them a lot less unwieldy on the battlefield, but won't really reduce their effectiveness.

Finally, why don't you have a Paragon blade on your Praetor? :)

That all seems like sound advice to me! I've made those changes to the list above and used the extra points to buff up my Praetor a little bit and added some power weapons to my Vets as a little insurance. I'll admit that the lack of a Paragon blade was just an oversight :P

[MorgothNL]

Looks like a solid list :). My only comments are more.. things I was thinking rather than them being wrong:

- The plasma guns on the vets seem a little out of sync with the unit? I'd save the points for something else or use them for extra power weapons 

- I've never had a game where extra armour on my rhino would have helped me in the slightest, so again maybe save those points?

- Armoured ceramite on the sicarans has also never really been of any benefit in my games and I've stopped running that upgrade on them. They have the range and mobility to stay away from melta, and if anything does get that close, it usually means it was 5+ melta's droppodding next to you, or terminators, dread dropping close.. it which case the AC won't save the day. Don't think my sicarans have ever been shot at by melta, they always die by something out of a pod, or a kraken missle. But I don't know your meta.

 

 

All of those taken out, gives you 100pts that seem like spend on luxury upgrades, where I'd go for extra tacticals, or take out a vet from each squad and use those extra saved points to add an apothecary to both squads. 

 

Alternatively, I'd give the vets meltaguns, so you can get those rhinos up and close for 2 melta shots out of the hatch. This works splendid with my RG. 

 

All in all, nothing you should really change and will sort itself out after some playtesting :).

[ravenglass]

Looks like a solid list :). My only comments are more.. things I was thinking rather than them being wrong:

- The plasma guns on the vets seem a little out of sync with the unit? I'd save the points for something else or use them for extra power weapons

- I've never had a game where extra armour on my rhino would have helped me in the slightest, so again maybe save those points?

- Armoured ceramite on the sicarans has also never really been of any benefit in my games and I've stopped running that upgrade on them. They have the range and mobility to stay away from melta, and if anything does get that close, it usually means it was 5+ melta's droppodding next to you, or terminators, dread dropping close.. it which case the AC won't save the day. Don't think my sicarans have ever been shot at by melta, they always die by something out of a pod, or a kraken missle. But I don't know your meta.

 

 

All of those taken out, gives you 100pts that seem like spend on luxury upgrades, where I'd go for extra tacticals, or take out a vet from each squad and use those extra saved points to add an apothecary to both squads.

 

Alternatively, I'd give the vets meltaguns, so you can get those rhinos up and close for 2 melta shots out of the hatch. This works splendid with my RG.

 

All in all, nothing you should really change and will sort itself out after some playtesting :).

I'll have to bow to your experience on this somewhat, because my meta consists of me and many imaginary players at the moment. I play maybe once or twice a year at casual conventions.

 

I'd like to respond to your points and to explain my reasoning though.

 

- The plasma is an addition after watching a set if BR's where sets if two plasna pistols in a rhino were used to pretty good effect. I figure at worst they don't get used, and at best they let my rhinos function as Razorback Lite. Plus they can hurt light vehicles and terminators - ideally - at a greater rate than meltas. The PW in the squad are more of a charge deterrent and a weapon of opportunity since the rhinos aren't assault vehicles.

 

- The Extra Armor is just a little insurance against random chance and a way to use a few points.

 

- The Ceramite is there because I don't have a meta, so I like to be prepared just in case :)

 

I appreciate the feedback though and will definitely keep it in mind. I just bought my infantry upgrades, so wirk should begin this weekend.

[Caustic63]

If your intentions with this list are to have your Tactical Squads advance up the board and eventually charge then you will almost always find yourself at the mercy of your opponent unless he is running a Drop Pod list and drops right in your face. Even if blown out of their transports, there are many combat focused units that can break and run down Tacticals with ease. You need mobility so you can pick your combats - if you wish the unit to be a firebase then Kakophoni in 3rd company will outclass them every day of the week. Since you are running a Maru Skara ambush style list I'd swap both Tacticals for Assault Squads, and strongly consider running one of your units of Veterans as Palatine Blades/Terminators in a Dreadclaw.

 

While your at it, putting your HQs on Bikes or giving them Jump Packs is nearly essential unless they are starting in a transport. This is where your Extra Armour points really should be going.

[ravenglass]

Alright, I've trimmed and cut and pasted, and come up with a slightly different list. Less bodies, more armor.

 

+++ 2500 EC Alt (2499pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List (Age of Darkness) (2499pts) ++

 

+ HQ (305pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (135pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····May be upgraded to one of these Consul roles: [Legion Champion]

 

Legion Praetor (170pts) [Artificer Armour, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade, Sonic Shrieker]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····Master of the Legion [The Maru Skara]

 

+ Troops (538pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (269pts) [16x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (269pts) [16x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Phoenix Spear]

····Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Elites (120pts) +

 

Apothecarion Detachment (120pts)

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

········Legiones Astartes [Legion Specific Rules]

 

+ Fast Attack (531pts) +

 

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron (71pts)

····Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [Hunter-killer Missiles, Searchlight, Twin-linked Lascannon]

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (230pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (230pts) [battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

 

+ Heavy Support (1005pts) +

 

Legion Spartan Assault Tank (390pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Frag Assault Launchers, Twin-Linked Bolter]

 

Legion Spartan Assault Tank (390pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Frag Assault Launchers, Twin-Linked Bolter]

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (225pts) [Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [iII: Emperor's Children, Loyalist]

 

 

Thoughts on the changes?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Why are you taking two land raiders, but not a single unit that can be transported in them? Seems pointless to me, raiders are good assault vehicles but poor battle tanks, 2 lascannons for their cost is not much. I'd drop both of them, or take units that can actually be transported in them. 

 

Also, two tactical blobs doesn't seem like the best way to go with EC. Sure, they strike at i5 when they charge, but against terminator deathstars and the like you will still lose, and your legion traits don't help you a whole lot. I'd take at least one good assault unit, like pheonix terminators or weapon master veterans, to better take advantage of your legion trait. Another option is to replace the tacticals with assault marines, who at least have access to a few power weapons to give them a little more punch in an assault. 

[ravenglass]

The Land Raiders were already gone about 40 minutes before your post, mostly because I looked up transport capacity rather than relying on a friend's knowledge.

 

To your second point, now that I'm putting the tacticals in the Spartans, I'm hoping that will be less of an issue. I have two of the Calth box sets lying around so that's pretty much where my infantry is going to come from. Plus I'd need to drop something to take an additional infantry option which I'm not crazy about. Maybe at 3000 pts. though!

[K3nn3rs]

I think you have anti-spartans/ anti heavy tanks/ knights and anti- air sorted in the Venator and 2 x lightning.

 

I think you're putting too much faith in tactical squads to do the rest (even at I5 and supported by a Preator and Champion).

 

I'd be tempted to go with 2 x 10 Tacticals in Rhinos. Ditch an apothercary and Spartan and with the points saved invest in some Palatine Blades to accompany the last apothercary, Praetor and Champion in the last Spartan. Or go with Phoenix Twrminators and upgrade the apothercary to a Primus Medicae.

[Lord Asvaldir]

The Land Raiders were already gone about 40 minutes before your post, mostly because I looked up transport capacity rather than relying on a friend's knowledge.

 

 

Weird, I saw land raiders in the list. Spartans works much better for what you have set up, so that was a good change. However as K3nn3rs mentioned, you're relying on those tacticals to do all the heavy lifting, which is unlikely to work. They just can't beat most dedicated assault units, in particular anything with +2 armor. 

[Slips]

I will say that you should NEVER put an Assault Unit, like Palatine Blades, in a Rhino. Otherwise, yeah, Tacticals doing your heavy lifting are more likely to die trying than succeed.

[K3nn3rs]

I will say that you should NEVER put an Assault Unit, like Palatine Blades, in a Rhino. Otherwise, yeah, Tacticals doing your heavy lifting are more likely to die trying than succeed.

I agree. I missed typed.

 

It should have said put the remaining apothercary/ champion/ praetor in the remaining SPARTAN with an assault unit.

[ravenglass]

I understand what you're all saying about the tactical squads, it's just that both the rhinos and the minimum unit size tacs feel so fragile to me. Rhino armor gets penetrated by a stiff breeze and ten bog standard marines feel like they'll do even less than 20 while being more vulnerable to shooting casualties. But on the flip side I haven't played 30k yet so maybe those concerns are overblown?

[Caustic63]

Hmm a Maru Skara list with double Spartans? That's intriguing. I wouldn't expect your Tacticals to win many combats against the dedicated CC units that the legions can field however. This flaw is magnified when you consider just how many points you are sinking into your Spartans when realistically you'd be far better off converting them into Assault Squads with Apothecaries if you are looking for fast CC units in your Troops slot.

[K3nn3rs]

Certainly fair concerns but it's how you employ the rhinos/ tacs - try to keep them safe using range/ terrain so that they can secure objectives/ finish off reduced enemy units.

 

Remember the enemy has to prioritise your units and rhino based tac squads would usually be lower down the list, thus keeping them alive for a bit longer.

[ravenglass]

Hmm a Maru Skara list with double Spartans? That's intriguing. I wouldn't expect your Tacticals to win many combats against the dedicated CC units that the legions can field however. This flaw is magnified when you consider just how many points you are sinking into your Spartans when realistically you'd be far better off converting them into Assault Squads with Apothecaries if you are looking for fast CC units in your Troops slot.

The theoretical intent is to have a few hard targets on the board that are unlikely to get shot off first turn till my fliers come in to deal with any similarly hard targets on their side turn two. After that, I'd plan to use the tacticals as an objective taking/camping force and an escort to protect the Spartans from melta bombs or fists. I'm hoping the fact that they have the extra I and CCW would deter non-dedicated melees from getting close to a counter charge, and I can just hide from anything that couldn't glance my Spartan to death.

 

 

Certainly fair concerns but it's how you employ the rhinos/ tacs - try to keep them safe using range/ terrain so that they can secure objectives/ finish off reduced enemy units.

Remember the enemy has to prioritise your units and rhino based tac squads would usually be lower down the list, thus keeping them alive for a bit longer.

That's certainly a fair point.