Last Test Game Tonight.

[Prot]

So as you may have seen from my batreps/posts that I've struggled quite a bit with this army.

 

In part it is coughed up as the cost of experimentation. Did I think the Corvus would be a strong unit? Not really. But some things I did think would be a bit better.... the Watch Master comes to mind.

 

So tonight I have no idea who I'm playing. It won't be a super hardcore game with this group, but nonetheless I'm trying to make a potent list for a maelstrom game since I have been hot and cold on what I've used.

 

My last ditch attempt is looking like it will be a Black Spear with 6 Aquila's.

 

I realize probably 90% of people reading this haven't played a game, or many games with the codex, but for those that have, I need to know if you're finding the Black Spear sub-par to a CAD.

 

Equivalent CAD doesn't have the taxes of HQ slots (too many perhaps) and a vehicle. In fact a CAD uses the Corvus better than the Black Spear. And it opens up the ObSec option.

 

So what I'm wondering is if those games you've had you find you miss having the extra Tactic change, or Onslaught rule, or access to all those Re-rolls (to wound/pen) are greatly missed?

 

I have to admit the Watch Company is good. Not great, but good. But if you make a Watch Company you're super close to a Black Spear.

 

Alternatively the CAD would let me take... a Bike squad? (I think their bikes are good value, and probably the best unit in the codex for tying stuff up.)

 

I'm still not liking the Corvus overall, the Black Shields, and I'm even starting to rethink Termies simply based on Cost, and effectiveness vs a dude with a Frag Cannon.

 

So I'm looking for any last minute thoughts. I could fudge a CAD for tonight if I have to, but I'm not entirely convinced it's actually 'better'.

 

P.S.

The reason I call this my last 'test' game is I've experimented enough to get a feel and I've gone against, Tau (2x), Eldar, Marines, Flyrant Nids, Spam Nids, Bikestar Orks, and maybe 1 or 2 more games I can't remember. lol

 

So this will be the last game where I figure out if I can go all out on this force and play it as an army or just use it as an ally.

 

Thanks for any last minute tips/advice!

[Vash]

Well the main reason for me to take a BSSF over a CAD is to get the Kill Team formation special rules, unless I just play a Watch Company.

Of course you can still use a CAD and tons of Kill Team formations, but you will still have two units of Veterans who don't have the Kill Team formation rules. Re-roll 1's might seem moot, but it all runs down on what you intend to do with the army. 

As cool as the Corvus is, it really doesn't do much. I have been playing flyers quite heavily since they came out, and from experience they seldom win the game (there are exceptions!). 

 

The Black shield I have yet to try out my self. I figure I will need around 5 games or maybe even 10 before I can say what I think of him. What I am looking for is the reaction from my opponents. Will they counter him and his unit, or will they let him head in to close combat. How much do they fear one model? And what are their counter units. etc. 

I know he is just one marine, but he will be a higher target priority over a squad without one. 

 

Terminators, I have myself gone from one or two in each unit to a single one. 

[Mitchverr]

It all boils down to what specific way your going to run the guys really in my mind.

 

I personally think its worth giving up obsec for aquila teams, however I agree heavily that bikes are a very good unit in this army, even if they can only take 1 CC weapon, their mobility, SIA and power weapon for cheap is pretty damn good to the point i put them in any squad not in a vehicle if i am running a strike force. I found them also very good in my CAD usage.

 

Given the very limited number of models you get in the force, its very much based on what you have picked to use and how you play between the 2 formation styles, however if you are taking a watch company anyway, you dont really need to have the strike force as a whole unless you plan to deep strike (i like this option just because i might want to deep strike my CC team somewhere). Not tried blackshields, might try 1 in my CC aquila team to take challenges for my captain.

 

Agree on corvus not being useful unless fighting horde armies in which case you upgrade it to the gills, termies are overpriced when you can get relative protection from a bike/SS for less in AP2 hammer. However, i have found 1 issue with my striking hard and fast teams, if an enemy vehicle like a dreadnought gets locked into them, the squad will get crushed, i have been using the watch master with the relic that gives him the ability to damage vehicles to deal with it, this seems to actually be a helpful usage.

 

 

Personally, the biggest thing i can say is aquila + poison 2+ ammo = lots of wounds, this seems to be my mainstay anti anything route, as opponents are either space marines in cover or higher toughness guys. Its literally the 2nd most "powerful" thing i do with my boys after teleport redeemer dumping mass frag cannons to join frag cannon drop pod trolling.

 

 

 

for the vehicle "tax" i have been taking a dreadnought with assault cannon (no frag cannon dread sucks) and it does well, it shoots well and if anything charges my back line he countercharges and helps out. Its only a tax if you make it a tax in this army in my view.

 

Currently i have less games then you i think (deffo less variation in opponents), so what i say might be obvious, but this is really the stuff i have picked up on. I currently field a strike force of 4 aquila and 1 veteran team combat squaded, so you seem to field a bit more fexibility to myself.

 

Good luck with your games.

[Prot]

Well I was very close to switching up my list from a 6 squad Aquila with no frills to a CAD with a bike squad, and more "pure" Kill teams. (I'd probably use ONE aquilla for  7ish man Stalker team with Cyclone Termie)

 

The games have been brutal. I find even if I out play my opponent sometimes, the lack of bodies just doesn't make up for it. Also I think the wins I am getting.... I hate to admit this, but  I think the wins are coming from people who don't truly know how hard 2-3 Frag cannons hit on the way in.

 

For instance, I've creamed a giant biker squad with commander and skilled rider with 6 Frag Flames. That person will NEVER be silly enough to give me that kind of access again. lol

 

Also I'm learning too. Before I make a decision I just want to make sure I'm using the right units, and packing away the right units.

 

My worst 'addiction' is the Watch Master. I know he's not that great, and his greatest role is to look good..... and hold the Angelis Beacon! ;)

 

I'm still also undecided on an assault element. Originally I mixed an assault unit in my squads. Then I realized it's too pricey, but I need one assault type unit... so I would take one vanilla shot gun squad with Heavy Hammer, and stopped putting Black Shields in my army.

 

While I would say this was a change for the better, I'm starting to think there's no room for assault in the army either... which really sucks. But what we do best is hit hard on the drop. Then we are slow, and our killiness starts to drop off.... then as squads disappear, the multiplier effect of SIA seems to be lost.

 

So now I'm nudging myself into stripping squads of CC entirely. Take -some- of those extra points and put Storm Shields on the cheap meat (I know a Vet isn't cheap). And get him to face tank AP2/Rending/etc as long as possible, and if a squad ends up in CC, write it off.

 

Use all Heavy Hammer points on shooty options. This is in part why a bike squad is tempting. For 160 approx, get 5 skilled jinkers with a simple axe, and a Maul, and go wreck some stuff early to buy time, or just tie up a Surge for a few turns and use the lager (NEW) bases to mitigate STOMP which is all you can do.

 

So that's my thinking process at this point and time.

 

Can I mimic this while taking the Black Spear? What's the big cost? HQ heavy (a bit), a vanilla Assault Cannon drop pod, and Watch Company?

[Lysere]

I'll try to respond to most of what you asked in your first post.

 

For one I do enjoy having the black spear over a cad for the bulk of the army. If I can I might try to blend the two but that extra switch, plus the option of onslaught is pretty solid. The key thing for me is just the killteams though. Even just re-rolling ones is a huge difference. I've said it several times now but I've seen games lost because of even one bad turn of wounds that could have taken down a key unit but came up short.

 

The mission tactic switch is something that seems minor as well but since formations tend to take a blend of slots it's nice knowing I can keep my re-rolls constantly set for my main targets for a turn.

 

The watch company is alright, but since it further boosts re-rolls when any sort of psyker or IC is in the unit it's got good mileage, you just end up needing a second hq.

 

Terminators are solid from my experience. Either build them to tank or give them some fire power and put them with drop pod squads.

 

I'll agree the corvus was alright but since there aren't many flyers in my Meta it's only really useful as an assault platform so just one should be fine. The formation just eats too many points.

 

As for the watch master, we'll I've taken him twice but the unit I stuck him with never got close enough to anything for him to do his thing.

 

The Black Shield is only really useful in an assault element and if you want that you should take a strategium with a chaplain. If you took a corvus they could use that or just arm most of the squad with shotguns and drop them in.

 

My idea would be a small cad with a bike squad and two small veteran squads plus maybe some of the overKill models and a black spear, just probably won't be able to use the watch company if I do that.