Prot Mini-Batreps: Vs. Tau + Vs. Daemons (w/pictures)1850

[Prot]

I actually remembered to take a few pictures of a few of my games this week, and thought I'd put the short notes up for your perusal.

 

To keep this simple, and legible, I will just put the really short notes in compared to my other batreps, hoping you find this a quicker read.

 

 

My lists were the same in both of these games:

 

Prot's Deathwatch: A little more 'serious' take on the Black Spear:

 

Watchmaster (Angelis) 205

 

Aquila 1: 140

5 Vets (inc.Srg)

1 Biker (for jink, ignore dangerous, etc)

 

Aquila 2: 190

5 Vets (inc.Srg) Storm Shield/Pwr Maul

Vanguard vet: Hvy Hammer

 

Watch Company:

  WC HQ: Artemis: 145

  WC Aquila 1: 280

   5 Vets (inc.Srgnt) 2 Frag Cannons

   Librarian

   Rhino (This squad gets 'Beaconed' across table T1)

 

   WC Aquila 2: 215

   5 Vets (inc. Srg) 4 Stalkers, 1 Infernus Hvy Bolter

   Terminator w/Cyclone (friendly zone objective holder)

 

   WC Aquila 3: 330

   5 Vets (inc Srg) 2 Frag Cannons , Storm Shield

   Terminator Librarian ML 2 Tome of Ectoclades

    Drop Pod (Watch master goes here usually for Beacon time)

 

   WC Aquila 4: 205

    5 Vets (inc Srg) 1 Frag Cannnon

    Terminator Assault Cannon, Melta Fist

 

Ancient: 145

Dreadnaught, Assault cannon

Drop Pod

 

 

  

GAME 1: Maelstrom Vs. The Heinous Tau.

 

Early Game:

+ I win first turn, set up appropriately, but draw mediocre cards. I do manage to get first blood, as he failed to seize.

+ His deployment is smart, but his list is certainly not maximized. He has units spread very well along his back lines:

Hammerhead tank thing with Longstrike on one edge with Marker light pathfinders. On the opposite edge he had his Warlord HQ with jump pack, and a few squads of jet pack dudes with Plasma, melta.

 

In the middle he had a transport full of fish. A Riptide, some more pathfiinders, and the Commander with jet pack (monstrous Creature).. flying fish dude.

 

Moving more towards the Hammer tank, he had a full Ghost Kheel Stealth Cadre with 2 stealth suit squads, and the Kheel with drones. Backing them up as more Pathfinders.

 

So he had the full Battle Cadre (whatever they call it) so he can share marker lights with multiple squads, and the auxiliary was his Stealth Cadre.

 

+The target priority was difficult and I've learned the alpha strike is essentially what we have. Deathwatch came in hard T1, and although I knew it was risky I put a pod on his back edge between his riptide + Pathfinders, and his HQ Jet pack with Stealth teams.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/063473CC-9E87-4735-A733-7675EE44C0A2.jpg

  

+ Here it all came down, heavy and hard, Deathwatch style. Fish were floppin' for cover. +

 

+ The tuna are flamed and skewered pretty good here, but I could not get all wounds off of the Riptide. I used the flamers on the one squad to hit his pathfinder squad, netting me First Blood.

 

+ Primary Squad w/Watchmaster from Pod stayed focused on the Warlord with suits (off picture) and they are multi flamered, and poisoned and literally the HQ tanked enough shots to make all wound necessary to remove the squad.

 

+ He retaliates by retreating the Riptide up higher (surprise), overcharging weapons and his deviation kind of saves a bit of me, as I play Super Friends to keep some remnants alive... oh well. You live hard, you die hard.

 

+ As is typical my squads quickly diminish after the alpha. He was not too confident but I warned him the army struggles after the Alpha and we would see that in play here.

 

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/EE439118-2FFF-40F1-9733-F72FFEAAFE53.jpg

+ Here the Riptide tried to hide, but to my surprise my Stalker Bolter squad would get the kill from a distance.+

 

+ The Riptide goes down after failing his last wound to stalkers. They would see VERY little action this game as mid table terrain and the Tau deployment took them out of most of the action, plus they sat on an objective most of the game.

 

+ I go up a few more points and then he has a great turn here and nets a few points.

 

+ I get another squad in via deep strike. Here's the funny thing... Really stupid actually. I put a BIKE in the squad JUST to take away the Dangerous Terrain tests and jink into CC if I had to.... so I deep strike the squad intentionally on debris right in front of a Stealth Squad. Then my opponent says, "that's a dangerous test isn't it?" I totally forgot, I fail one test, I randomize the model... and kill the bike. D'oh! Didn't realize what I had done until the game was over. lol

 

+ I am WAY out of the game now because he's shifting away with his Tau and I'm slow as heck. I get one remnant squad back into a Rhino, but leave one vanilla squad behind for objectives.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/6CCB53AA-CCE6-4719-A38E-D601E4DF08B6.jpg

 

+ After the switcharoo psychic power I am now ready to assault. The Dreadnaught couldn't get a good enough shot on the transport, and I felt the Marker lights would be worse, so I shot up these Pathfinders, got lucky and they all died.

 

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/74D05C21-A006-4D24-9367-4EDB4BD24F1A.jpg

 

+ I pull the old 'switch-a-roo' to get an assault off on this Ghost Keel. +

 

+ My Drop Pod dread comes in, and I see the Stealth Cadre which means instant death for my Dreadnaught and know I have to tie him up.

 

+ My Libby had pulled the power to switch spots with a friendly squad. So a squad which just deep striked here, switched spots with my tiny Librarian squad with Artemis, thus allowing me to assault.

 

+ The assault ensues, but I can't kill anything, and he kills one guy. In his turn the assault continued and I tried Artemis' D-Bomb (again) and failed to hit, but my opponent rolled a 1 for the D result. LOL man does my Artemis suck... I think he's literally about 0-15 on that D bomb.

 

+ His Flying commander shot up some deep strikers pretty good. His Longstrike effectively wiped out some more of my stuff and i was feeling the very typicaly 'uh oh' here we go.... even with 6 squads the army felt small.

 

+ I cannot beat the Ghost Keel in close combat so I do the 'switcharoo' again and he fails to deny it. This time I swap out Art and Libby for a squad with the Fist Termie. It would take the fist termie to beat down the Ghost Keel and Drones... finally.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/7485C315-3C5D-44ED-997B-A2673E52E23B.jpg

 

+ Operation Chowder is completed... the Deathwatch run for cover as the Longstrike/Hammerhead is taking aim. Above the Dread managed to blow up the transport fish bowl. The contents are unfortunately not pinned though.

 

 

+ I get sick of the flying commander pelting stuff so I take a long shot of my own. Using my Mission tactics to re-roll 1's, I state the Stalker Bolter squad is going to shoot what they have left (about 3 guys and the Terminator) at his flying commander. The arrogant flying fish refuses to Jink because it's a long shot. The Cyclone hits on a re-rolled 1 !!! I get the wound, and it insta kills his arrogant fish!!!

 

 

+ My Vanguard Aquila comes in with heavy hammer. There isn't a good target for the hammer but I do have 2 shotguns lined up at a stealth team that take out the squad denying their 2+ cover save... very handy. However the Hammerhead wipes the squad in one shot.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/35B3DAEC-2EC2-47B6-BCAA-195688516D81.jpg

 

 

+ Everything I have left that has been walking through a shooty hell catches up to the contents of the fishbowl. The fish die quickly and without doing any damage.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/FEDB0D9A-0BAA-41A4-95EB-8210688852E7.jpg

 

+ I pull the switcharoo power one more time to face down his annoying Hammerhead to the right. I can't do anything more than a single hull point to it with my Fragcannons. +

 

+ The game ends in turn 6. I have a fairly significant victory on paper but I have very little left on the table. But he's literally down to 3-4 rallied Pathfinders and his one tank. A fairly convincing win, against a non-optimized Tau list.

 

It shows that the Tau put out so much damage that even someone who isn't quite sure what he's doing can give me big problems though.

 

 

 

BATREP 2: The Shortest Incursion with Daemons that will never be recorded:

 

 

+ I face off against Daemons. He's using the INFERNAL TETRAD: He gets a lot of good powers in his psychic roll offs, but so many are rolled for, I don't think it's ever an issue for this list.

 

I get to go first, but my deploy as usual is very light. I park some Stalkers on busted Bridge, and hide my Rhino for the Angelis Alpha.

 

+ His deployment looks little like this:

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/B9F58770-EACE-4699-8D28-94F8F4ABACED.jpg

 

+ What do you call 5 DP's with a plethora of powers that steals the initiative? A: A short game.

 

+ He steals the initiative. This means the game is over for me. He buffs the army with the longest segment of his turn, the psychic phase. Everything seemingly has Iron Arm, and he's re-rolling a ton of stuff, and summons a squad in. His attacks aren't great though as he can only target my stalker squad right now, and they manage to hold on to about 3 models. He largely advances his army.

 

+ In my turn I know I have to have on amazing alpha strike. The problem is his best close combat dude (the green Daemon Prince) is the only 'easy' target.

 

+ I come down hard, and Angelis in the Rhino squad:

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/3B2E7FFA-CE08-499D-99E8-D0F90AD55B95.jpg

 

+ I do the Angelis Alpha, and starting with the Stalkers, I take down the Green Daemon prince.

 

+ The Green Daemon Prince was Nurgle based. Most of these are close combat dudes so only the one Tzeentch model with the book thingy is flying (off screen).

 

+ After the Nurgle Prince dies it all goes down hill.... I can't do anything to any squads. The Frag Cannons are best as flamers, but here they won't do anything, so I use single shots, but wounding is still hard  with Frag because Iron Arm everywhere.

 

+ Of course Poison rounds help, but here's the thing.... he's got a 2+ invuln, and re-rolls 1's. and then I think there's Feel No Pain.... So yea, we've seen this before, it's nearly impossible once the powers are up. I think at one point I counted 17 wounds, but I don't think more than 1 stuck.

 

+ To my opponent's credit he played ITC rules so his 2+ failed to a re-roll of a 4+ AND then Feel no Pain. Something like that. Regardless my entire remaining army poured into that guy, and couldn't touch him.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/C9FBCDFB-F695-4345-9204-651F68B7D7B9.jpg

 

+ In his turn, he moves in for the kill....

 

+ I can't deny any psychic powers with his 17+ dice. His warp storm gets him a free squad, he summons another, which miss haps and I place on the far side of the table.

 

+ he gets off Psychic Shriek on my Stalker Bolter squad, I take 6 un saveable wounds on the Squad. The termie fails the first save, squad dies.

 

+ He gets to summon a Tzeentch Chariot, I can't block it.... it flames most of a squad killing them without saves.

 

+ He comes in for close combat....

 

 

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/8ED9E15D-AB6B-4774-AABC-D3B1A15EF251.jpg

 

 

+ Hmmm... something's missing from this picture...

 

+ So I can't wound anything because of toughness. All of his attacks are instant death because of high Strength, and AP2. SO.... I am powerless to defend his psychic stuff, can't wound him, can't save most of this....

 

+ The Watchmaster steps up to take the first of the 1,491 wounds I have to take. He goes to block the first attack: Misses the block. Goes to make his 4+ Iron Halo... misses, instant death. The Librarian fails his 5+ invuln, instant death. The rest of the squad is wiped. It's over kill but I have nothing left.

 

+ Second close combat only has one Daemon prince but it's more of the same... I can't wound, he's insta-killing, All die but 3.

 

At the end of his second turn, I start my second turn with 3 small squads in reserves. On the table I have 4 models. He has his full army minus the Nurgle DP, and he has summoned 3 more in total. So there is not chance, I will come in peace meal now, and full deviate, and his army is growing faster than I can die. So I concede.

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/Protilious/Prots%20Deathwatch%2040K/Prot-%20DW%20Paint%20Chllg%20Kill%20Team1b.jpg

 

+ Back to the Choppa! Back to the Choppa! +

 

 

Game ends and it's about as bad as a tau game I had earlier this week.

 

Sorry I did not take pictures of any other games I had this week. But normally I batrep one a week so... bonus this week!

 

Hope you enjoyed reading ths.

 

[Vel'Cona]

That is possibly the dirtiest Daemons list I have ever seen. I don't blame you for the results you had there, I'm pretty sure few armies could deal with that level of cheesery. I'm sure you bear no ill will to your opponent but given the option I'd scoop my army vs. such lists every time.

As for the Tau game, I think it's about what you'd expect. Played at full level Tau, Eldar and C: SM armies are just too much for C: DW to handle on its own. Don't get me wrong, I think you played a good game there but as you said, the fact that your opponent wasn't 100% on his strategy had a significant impact.

In either case, thanks for the great batreps! Here's hoping you don't completely throw in the towel on DW; with your local meta I feel like a lot of armies would be no-fun situations.

[Prot]

That is possibly the dirtiest Daemons list I have ever seen. I don't blame you for the results you had there, I'm pretty sure few armies could deal with that level of cheesery. I'm sure you bear no ill will to your opponent but given the option I'd scoop my army vs. such lists every time.

As for the Tau game, I think it's about what you'd expect. Played at full level Tau, Eldar and C: SM armies are just too much for C: DW to handle on its own. Don't get me wrong, I think you played a good game there but as you said, the fact that your opponent wasn't 100% on his strategy had a significant impact.

In either case, thanks for the great batreps! Here's hoping you don't completely throw in the towel on DW; with your local meta I feel like a lot of armies would be no-fun situations.

Thank you Vel... it's like you read my mind.

Firstly, of course I don't take a big pat on the back for winning the Tau game. I play against MUCH harder Tau lists than this (anyone familiar with Frankie's ITC list?) I face a lot worse than that, but to be honest I'm not going to bother typing up and posting pictures of a batrep where I get pasted by Stormsurges and Drone-mander with Riptide Wing in 2 turns....

The Daemon game has irony to it. The guy is someone that plays very hard lists typically. Tau, Daemons, and he just finished a local tournament with dual Knight, WarConvo. This is fine to me, it's what is played quite often, but not always. (There are a few groups I play in.)

But ironically he was just finishing a game and he was -pasting- the guy he was playing. He played against Tau and had a zillion figs on the table and was summoning like nuts and casting a lot of shooting every turn. The Tau player was basically just scooping up figs and putting them away.

So when we were going to play, he felt bad because he saw I was playing Deathwatch, so he made a new, 'toned down' list because he thought my access to poison would make it 'funner' for me.

I kid you not. Of course I realize this is not ill intent on his part at all, but there you go, that's how I ended up playing this 'light daemons' list. lol :)

I do play a lot, and I try to post the better games. I post them to entertain here, and to help others that don't get to play for whatever reason. I also test a lot in every codex I adopt so to a degree my batreps are 'recorded experiments' I guess you could say.

BUT I digress.... I was saying you read my mind. I am thinking of throwing in the towel at least for a while on the Deathwatch.

A week ago I posted I was just about done experimenting. I've tried every kill team now, all HQ's, most of the relics, a CAD, a Black Spear (of various configs) and a mix of CAD/Black Spear. I am finding the codex very weak, and some of the not well thought out stuff is bugging me a lot. It's simple stuff, but they somehow missed it. Too much of it.

The thing is I love the army, the background, the figs, the whole process and idea of the army. It just kind of stinks on the table in my area.

I have a massive Ultramarines army that I've played for years, a fair sized Grey Knights army, and a very large Chaos army. Right now when I make a Deathwatch list, I constantly make a better Ultramarine one. Almost anything I can do with Deathwatch, I think my Ultra's do better.

But my Ultra's have a special place in my heart. Historically they're really the 'vanilla' army that stuck with me for many reasons, but I was really, really looking forward to Deathwatch. I realize in reading this it sounds like I'm dumping on Deathwatch but I'm not.... it's really a fun codex. Very flavourful, and fun. Hopefully there's lots more to explore and someone else out there is having some good runs with them. ;)

[Brother Sefiel]

Greetings

 

I've only played pure Deathwatch twice, and they were hammered.

Definitely think that allying them in is the way to go - I played a couple of unbound games last night in which two-man terminator teams proved quite effective, but I'm looking forward to using a variety of kill-teams supporting battleforged armies.

The main issue with that is that they are (obviously) best used when you have some idea of what your opponents might be, so random opponents are likely to render them a bit useless...

Arranged games with some narrative will make them shine, I think.

[Vel'Cona]

I have a massive Ultramarines army that I've played for years, a fair sized Grey Knights army, and a very large Chaos army. Right now when I make a Deathwatch list, I constantly make a better Ultramarine one. Almost anything I can do with Deathwatch, I think my Ultra's do better.

I found the exact same thing with my Sons of Medusa. I find C: SM armies are just far stronger in general and I have so many more options (grav weapons, bike Captains/CS, Centurions, the list goes on) as well as a host of different and interesting strategies to try. While I love the flavor of C: DW, it just doesn't have a power level that works competitively, and unlike my other two armies (IG and AdMech), it doesn't even seem to have a power/min-max build to fall back on for competitive play. I'm trying to imagine what a cheesy pure DW list looks like, and I honestly can't come up with anything! To some extent, it's nice to not feel pressured to power-build my lists, but at the same time it's limiting since I'll always feel like I'm playing with a built-in nerf (instead of dulling down the list a little on my own).

I do find it laughable that the Daemons player thought he was weakening his list for you in any way. That's some beardy junk right there.

[Lord Sesslec]

Prot,

 

Cloud Dancer, Shadowseer of Soaring Spite has cast her runes and soon you'll dance the Dance of Death...

[Prot]

Prot,

 

Cloud Dancer, Shadowseer of Soaring Spite has cast her runes and soon you'll dance the Dance of Death...

 

Dance of death? Is this a threat from the Craftworld of unemployed artists?

 

My Watchmaster shall smite thee so hard that your Cloud Dancer will be looking for work at Circue Du Soleil!

 

I'm really tempted to take this challenge as it's been a while since I laid a beatdown on pointy eared clowns. ;)

[Sheesh Mode]

Prot, have you considered using a BSSF, and a CAD? You gain the benefits of both detachments, and additional flexibility.

[Prot]

Prot, have you considered using a BSSF, and a CAD? You gain the benefits of both detachments, and additional flexibility.

 

Yes I have played both a few times now. The worst part is the already HQ heavy BSSF gets a little heavier (I prefer the Aquila) but yea, I've been doing that as well. I am still on the fence about its efficiency though. It's hard to play in an environment where you see a lot of great formations and you're trying to make yours functional while splitting it into a CAD to try to get some efficiency out of it. So for that reason I'm still not entirely sold on the idea. More testing required. :)

 

[Rob451]

40k isn't a balanced game by any stretch when played in a tournament style which is why I don't play pick-up games or tournaments anymore and stick to narrative campaigns with games masters. In this scenario Deathwatch shine because you can tailor a kill team to the scenario.

 

However with regard to game one: Skilled Rider means your kill team automatically pass dangerous terrain tests so your biker shouldn't have died.

[Prot]

40k isn't a balanced game by any stretch when played in a tournament style which is why I don't play pick-up games or tournaments anymore and stick to narrative campaigns with games masters. In this scenario Deathwatch shine because you can tailor a kill team to the scenario.

However with regard to game one: Skilled Rider means your kill team automatically pass dangerous terrain tests so your biker shouldn't have died.

To quote myself from the original post:

 

+ I get another squad in via deep strike. Here's the funny thing... Really stupid actually. I put a BIKE in the squad JUST to take away the Dangerous Terrain tests and jink into CC if I had to.... so I deep strike the squad intentionally on debris right in front of a Stealth Squad. Then my opponent says, "that's a dangerous test isn't it?" I totally forgot, I fail one test, I randomize the model... and kill the bike. D'oh! Didn't realize what I had done until the game was over. lol

And yes if competitive play isn't your cup of tea and you like to list tailor, I think you will get a lot of mileage out of the codex, and enjoy it thoroughly.

[MithrilForge]

Awesome BatReps and good pics too

i appreciate the time and effort put into these(vash's included) as it does really help us guys who are slow to paint and stuck on troop/wpns choice too

these are very helpful and if we can learn to read between the lines and not copy paste your armies, we can work out for ourselves what kind of army to make for our meta,playstyle etc

I only play mates in friendly environs so some of these armies make me giggle with the thought of the look/reaction i'd give the guy on the other side of the table if presented with these armies against said DW army...I know it's legal in the book but C'mon...seriously?... as Vel said i'd probably pick my army up and move along to the next guy that didn't think having a meaningful life/existence depended on having an absolute cheese army and winning a tabletop game with little men ... anyway i'm off topic now....

Your army and the terrain are sooo damn nice it would be hella fun to play against you kicking back over a few beers and some chips (that's how you play 40k )

i look forward to more insights and lessons on the DeathWatch (i do hope you keep playing even though it does seem that the army is more for fun than Comp style play)

Cheers Mithril

* i think the Tau player has learn't a valuable lesson and his next game will be different...

[Vash]

Read this batrep two times now and not replied :D Shame on me. 

Tau is a really interesting army to fight (and play... yes I play Xenos...) . They can vary their lists so dramatically. 

 

What I really like in your list here is the Rhino. Pulling it to the front lines with the Beacon is nice, and provides much needed transportation for the deep striking units. And, they are somewhat protected in the transport from anti infantry fire. 

 

Much is learned, so thanks for that. I feel, that my first game went off to a good start much thanks to the bat reps I had read and the forum suggestions/discussions. 

[Prot]

Thanks very much guys.

 

There are a few venues I play in so some of the DW batreps I've done have taken place at stores, some are at houses... In my 'main' group we have an amazing terrain guy who does fantastic tables.  I've also invested heavily in mats and terrain to keep it fun, and interesting.

 

As far as the groups, it really is all over the place and I wouldn't have it any other way. It keeps me sharp and honestly sometimes I like testing my own tactics by taking something I know is sub-par competitive wise against stuff I know is top tier. I do this a lot, and if I win it's all that more rewarding.

 

On a side note I also like to debunk a lot of garbage I read on the internet. I try almost everything first hand vs. real people... (I mean sure, my cats are pretty smart for cats, but I like the wild card factor of playing against real people. )

 

I will always take playing against an unpleasant list over an unpleasant person. As someone who does play against anyone at some venues, this does happen more than I'd like to admit.

 

I take great pride if any of these batreps help anyone in any way to develop their own ideas and strategies, no matter what your environment. Thank you for that.

 

About Deathwatch.... still easily my favourite hobby army right now, but as someone who plays in a mildly competitive environment towards a very competitive environment, my honest feeling is the army is coming out to be about a 3 out of 10 (If I have to put it on a scale.... this is just my scale though. I don't claim it to be the 'right' scale.)

 

I would put my Chaos (yes Chaos) at about 5/10, and my Ultra's at about 8/10. In this 'scale factor' I would put my old Necrons at 8.5, and comp Tau at 10, Comp Daemons at 9, and eldar at 10 just to give some sense of what I face that I consider a "10".

 

If you guys saw the Tau I played with this army the other day, I'm sure you would have gagged. (I had to concede top of T3 for lack of models). I find even 'fun'  Eldar just blow DW away with ease because of a very, very similar problem I had with my Grey Knights.... way too much access to psudo rend/AP2/AP3.

 

So like Grey Knights, we are trying to get special rules to compensate for insanely low model counts. But do we have a "Draigo" to become our flying landraider? To keep us warm at night? Do we have a large robot to cause some shooting challenges for our opponents? Something that -can- dance with a GC? Do we have the shooting or psychic might to make up for the face we die as easily as any other space marine?

 

... No.

 

We have some tricks, and we have some fun stuff. Undoubtedly we have incredible models, and an incredible background, but the codex on a rules level is horribly executed (in my opinion). I never would have released this codex as is.... not unless I was 8 months past a deadline and my job was threatened over it, or something like that.

 

.... Still I play and build it. I don't play it -every- night anymore. I play it about half my games, and rotate in my stronger armies for a breather. Still, I love the hobby side of the army and now realize a good portion of my favorite models are not worthy of playtime unless I want to pack up super early or I'm playing a very entry level player (I still meet some of those!)

 

That said I still pump out some weird lists every day, and I've probably made about 50 lists by now, and played about 15 of them by now.

 

I greatly appreciate you guys read the batreps. I wish I had time to put more games up!

[Vash]

List building is half the fun. 

Getting the most out of every single point to get what you like (theme) and make it work competitively. What I do like with your lists (form what I have seen in your bat reps) is that you insist on using the Watch Master :) 

I for one can't find a place for him, but you manage to pull it off. 

 

Keep those battle reports coming, and I for one will take a look and absorb the experience you had. 

[Prot]

List building is half the fun.

Getting the most out of every single point to get what you like (theme) and make it work competitively. What I do like with your lists (form what I have seen in your bat reps) is that you insist on using the Watch Master

I for one can't find a place for him, but you manage to pull it off.

Keep those battle reports coming, and I for one will take a look and absorb the experience you had.

haha.. insisting to use the Watch Master is coming to an end. I have certainly tried him though. You know to this day I've never successfully 'blocked' an attack? And that's with using block in its loosest terminology: Blocking any attack coming from a squad he's engaged with.

He's just a 2+ save Chapter master without access to real Relics. And that's just a fact, but I felt with Librarius running he might be worth a kick now and again, however, he has no real role in my lists. I discovered the only role most of my HQ's truly have is holding a Beacon.

He's also a pricey character in a list chalk full of exorbitantly priced models.

What I'm getting to here is I confess I have been working on my Death Watch Terminator Captain. It's not only for efficiency, but I would like to try it out with a Relic blade (why on great Terra are our HQ Terminators so incredibly limited on wargear choices?) and by keeping him cheaper, naturally I hope to stretch the list out.

Especially if you're using a Watch Company... all the HQ taxes get super high super fast.

On creating lists, I confess I have created some extremely nasty lists (involving allies) that I will only test vs. certain people/groups I know that like to play that style. I prefer to keep these to myself for the moment.

I love reading the batreps and lists too. I know there are many options still to try out, and my last game ventured into a CAD which was so 'functional' I am tempted to expand on it greatly.

[Vel'Cona]

Have to agree on most points, Prot.  I've not played as many games as you but I can definitely say that DW are sadly lacking overall as an army.  The toys we get are fun, but only a few (Frag Cannons, Stalker pattern boltguns, DW shotguns) are really worth the trouble.  Overall I'd rate the codex a bit higher on "Ye Olde Power Scale", at about 4/10, but that's compared to Orks, Nids and DE (and I'm pretty sure a well designed Ork Biker list would stomp most DW lists).  It's definitely a fun codex and I still plan to paint up my Kill Teams, but in terms of competitive enjoyment I'll be taking my other armies as a priority.

[Prot]

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I still get a lot of enjoyment out of playing the army, and definitely the hobby aspect of it. I would be lying though if I didn't admit a teenie bit of jealousy over the great job they just did on the Genestealer cult.

 

Someone told me they same guys that wrote our codex wrote Eldar? I was pretty shocked.

 

I did hold out hope for a while we'd get some extra touch as Nid stuff came out, but it never happened and now it looks like GW will focus on 13th Crusade so if you're not lovin' these guys right now, it probably won't get a lot better.

 

That being said I am still working on them every spare hobby moment I get. And every piece I finish still motivates me to do more of the same. I just love the model kits (MK7) and the overall aesthetic of the army.

 

Part of me really hopes if 8th is around the corner, that they do something with Flyers. The Corvus is one of my favourite non-infantry models in the game and it is extremely hard to use economically in my games. Stuff like that could make the codex look a touch better. I guess we'll see.

[Vel'Cona]

Someone told me they same guys that wrote our codex wrote Eldar? I was pretty shocked.

That being said I am still working on them every spare hobby moment I get. And every piece I finish still motivates me to do more of the same. I just love the model kits (MK7) and the overall aesthetic of the army.

Part of me really hopes if 8th is around the corner, that they do something with Flyers. The Corvus is one of my favourite non-infantry models in the game and it is extremely hard to use economically in my games. Stuff like that could make the codex look a touch better. I guess we'll see.

I'd believe the Eldar concept since they were probably told to "tone it down" this time. Doesn't help us much, though.

As for the Flyer problem, I'd go a step further and say "Flyer Transports" need the most re-work. Waiting 3 turns to get a unit on the table is utterly ridiculous. IMO the days of rolling for Reserves should probably be past us by now . . .

[Prot]

Well I can tell you at local ITC events against the better tier armies, a lot of games have such heavy alpha that Flyers have very little impact right now.... except reserves manipulation. Daemons, Tau, and a few others can have the game so lopsided now by T2, your flyer isn't capable of making a big impact.

 

I don't think this is entirely the fault of the Flyer though, it's been the escalation of such crazy alpha strike armies that you have to have some insane survivability to make T2 or T3 units actually contribute to the out come. There are some ITC lists I play against that literally come down to who gets to go first ,WarConvo and Eldar fit this description as well.... I personally wish it wouldn't come down to that single roll.

 

The one army I had moderate success with is Raven Guard T1, Raptor Wing reserves. They give -decent- fire support at that point level.

 

I don't think the Corvus gives a "good" level of fire support at its points level. I would rather have a Stormtalon. That being said I know we pay for the transport ability of the Corvus, however in game we know it's far too late to enter close combat with those kinds of points (Flyer + assault oriented squad) in most modern games. Without dumping even more points into reserve manipulation, like you say, is best case scenario T3.

[Vel'Cona]

 

I don't think the Corvus gives a "good" level of fire support at its points level. I would rather have a Stormtalon. That being said I know we pay for the transport ability of the Corvus, however in game we know it's far too late to enter close combat with those kinds of points (Flyer + assault oriented squad) in most modern games. Without dumping even more points into reserve manipulation, like you say, is best case scenario T3.

 

It's really sad for DW too, because GW seems to have learned that Flyers aren't the optimal choice for assault delivery based on their Cult Ambush rules in GC, as well as the plethora of cheap Open-Topped Transports available to them.  I can't help but think these two codices were designed simultaneously and to combat the other, but in that vacuum the DW got the short end of the stick (while GC are actually much stronger than the stats make them appear).

[Silas7]

Great points, I have let the likes rain. I am also jealous of the universal praise the GC are getting and our lack of options vs. other marine codexes when DW should be the most blinged with foreign tech and ancient wargear abound. The black shield upgrade should only cost 5pts (if that) given that to make him useful you have to give him two CCW at full price and lose out on the SIA that the vet you upgraded from was already paying for. >_<

[Vel'Cona]

So many missed points in the codex really.  But there again, it's a first release for them.  While we may have to wait 3-4 years for another one, I"m just glad to know that DW are in the lineup and look forward to playing them "for fun" as it were.  As in other "new" armies (AdMech, for example), I think we'll have to wait a little while to see a fully-realized version of the DW codex hit the tabletop.  Until then, PURGE ON!!!