[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[depthcharge12]

 

Hey guys, is it possible to use a sisters HQ without bringing the troops? Command Structure is worded kind of weirdly.

 

I'm leaning towards you can take them solo because of the last sentence that explains how it works and the use of "up to three other units"

Reads solo to me

Samez. She makes for a nice cheap option, and I don't think there's anything saying she can't hang out with the boys and negate psychic powers against them.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well the bad news is she'd kinda debuff them. But Krole is hella cheaper than a tankbune

[Black Cohort]

I am planning on building a Custodes HQ + 4 man spear squad as an allied detachment, what type of build should the shield captain have without being really expensive?

[TompiQ]

I am planning on building a Custodes HQ + 4 man spear squad as an allied detachment, what type of build should the shield captain have without being really expensive?

 

The thing with shield captains is that they cost 190 points base. No matter how you build them, they are really expensive. So building a tankibune (without the tribune upgrade in your case, so captank?) is still what I'd recommend, costing you 250 points for a shield captain with paragon spear, digital weapons, shield and cyber-familiar. It gives you way better bang for your buck, for only 60 extra points.

 

If you want cheap, go for a Sisters hq.

[depthcharge12]

Well the bad news is she'd kinda debuff them. But Krole is hella cheaper than a tankbune

The only debuff is the leadership right? As long as you keep her alive, the unit is fearless (fanatic discipline). So drop her in that nasty Hetero squad y'all are planning and watch them churn through Primarchs.

 

Even cheaper take the Oblivion-Centura who gives fearless.

Edited February 22, 2017 by depthcharge12

[Slips]

I'd Probably just stick with Krole due to EW and more potent CC.

[depthcharge12]

I'd Probably just stick with Krole due to EW and more potent CC.

Again, definitely viable, but I was answering to keeping the HQ cheap and cheerful so you can take more jetbikes, Dspears, and Heterons.

[Slips]

 

I'd Probably just stick with Krole due to EW and more potent CC.

Again, definitely viable, but I was answering to keeping the HQ cheap and cheerful so you can take more jetbikes, Dspears, and Heterons.

 

Its not like Krole is a bank buster at 150

[Rabidbunneh]

It does read like you can take one by itself. It would be quote handy to put one in a unit with a Tribune and Vexilla to make it much more likely to break the enemy on the charge.

[TompiQ]

One thing to remember is that as soon as a model without The Sodality joins a unit of models with it, the whole unit has to follow standard 2" coherence.

[Charlo]

One thing to remember is that as soon as a model without The Sodality joins a unit of models with it, the whole unit has to follow standard 2" coherence.

 

Funnily enough, RAW you would also lose the regrouping bonuses lol

[Vogon]

I may be missing something but I have assumed that both the guardian spear and the Paragon spear are two handed but can't see where it's stated in the rules.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[IronDrake28]

I may be missing something but I have assumed that both the guardian spear and the Paragon spear are two handed but can't see where it's stated in the rules.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

As far as I can see they're both a Specialist Weapon. Maybe you're thinking of the 40k rules?

[Charlo]

Yep, they are not two handed at all.

 

The rules are written to allow them and a shield be used by the more veteran banana bros.

 

Plus in the fluff they are used in all sorts of manner, often being spun around endlessly for whirlwinds of death  

Edited February 22, 2017 by Charlo

[Vogon]

Thanks for that guys.  I think I was simply thinking that it looked like a two handed weapon and a lot of the models are sculpted holding it in two hands.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[Rabidbunneh]

I think they were in the White Dwarf rules before Inferno was released.

[Rabidbunneh]

I played a 3K game today against my friend's mainly infantry Death Guard. It was a bit horrific, I lost 2 Sentinels and 2 Hetaeron Guard, but I killed 7 Death Shroud Terminators, 30 Tactical Marines and an Apothecary (20 in one round of combat, 10 from one shooing phase), a Leviathan Siege Dreadnought (in Combat), 7 Lascannon Devastators and 10 Autocannon Devastators.

 

Being able to pick infiltrate as a Warlord trait meant I could throw 12 Sentinels, my Tribune and my Hetaeron Guard up the board quickly whilst my two Coronus with 6 Custodian Guard and my single Cadillus sped up the board behind the first wave. My two 3 man Sentinel squads ran up the board, but they weren't needed as the infiltrating units utterly battered my opponent.

 

I think I could have played a 2k list and still done just as well. This army is incredibly strong.

[TompiQ]

Cool stuff! Could you post your entire list? And perhaps even the opponents?

[Fallen11]

What exactly is cool in game where he obliterated his opponent and lost 4 guys in return? Does this seems like a fun game to you? Since my definition of fun game is not removing my models of the table while doing literally nothing in return.

[IronDrake28]

What exactly is cool in game where he obliterated his opponent and lost 4 guys in return? Does this seems like a fun game to you? Since my definition of fun game is not removing my models of the table while doing literally nothing in return.

Winning or losing doesn't make a game fun. And besides, you have no idea if both players enjoyed the match, you weren't there. Furthermore, the whole point of elite armies is that they have a lower model count, of course they'd be survivable. Also, these are the gosh darn Legio Custodes!

[Fallen11]

Survivable and not really ballanced for theyr points is not really the same. A lot of stuff in custodes list pays a bit premium for stuff compared to legion, yet gets way much better for it's pts cost.

 

Just few examples:

 

For 100pts more than legion jetbikes with MM, you get custodes jetbikes with d3 lascannons each. Okay, 100pts(around 60% price increase) at first look might not look like a small price, and it is not. But when you take in account that for 100pts, you survability is not 2x, it's actually way more. 2W T6(almost invunerable to ID) 5++, every guy is charachter to bounce wounds. You will probably loose all 3 legion jetbikes before you loose single custodes one.
Now we go to fire power, you fire power is not 2x, it's also way more. Since on average you will get 6 lascannon shots -> 5 hits, comapred to 3 MM shots -> 2 hits. And on top of it, most important stuff has ceramite and basicly will ignore those meltas, while lascannon can still blow almost anything. Yea, there is also split fire option you get on custodes, just in case you wish to blow 2 tanks.
Now we go to cc. Legion jetbikes are more or less dead in cc, you don't really want to charge stuff. While on other hand, when 3 legion jetbikes charge in almost any non 2+ save unit, they will just eat them. Hitting most stuff on 3+, and then wounding with no save on 2+, you will make enough wound to just route unit.
Ofcourse due to the split fire, you can blow tank and charge different infantry unit. You can blow up rhino and simply murder those guys that were inside in cc.

Lets compare legion contemptor to custodes one. For 25pts(14% price increase) more you get extra armor included, 5++ instead of 6++ in cc.  +1 across initiative,ws, attack,side armor,rear armor, counter attack, move through cover. Meaning if you ever get in cc with legion dreadnought, legion dreadnought will very much likely die, since you will swing 6 attacks that hit him on +3, before he even swings. All that for 25pts .

Now we move to shooting, for 40pts you get d3 lascannon shots,possibly strenght D in charge, and +1 attack. For 25pts legion dreadnought gets TL lascannon,lol

Coronus - for how much you pay him, he is also stupidly good. Since he can kill tanks, infantry, is stupidly survivable with av14(15vs blasts),12/11, jink,ceramite,machine spirit to help if you jinked or wish to target infantry and tanks. 5+ to hit him in cc. He is more survivable than land raider, yet costs almost 2x less. And his fire power is about equall, depends what your target is.

 

Custodes HQ for around 100pts more than praetor, can kill 3 praetors no problem even if all 3 of them are vs him at same time,lol. He can even kill some primarchs and tank rest of them for whole game - > you need to make him 9 wounds for him to actually get 1, with 3++ rerolable. While at same time having 6(7 when charged or charges) S10 attacks master crafted, and you hit him on 4+.

 

 

If you are not seeing how much better custodes are for not that much price increase you are fooling yourself. Yes, they are custodes, that does not mean they need to be inballanced. You can say, well, these are marines, please remove your guard army, since in fluff few marines can easily slaughter dozens upon dozens of guardsmen...

 

Winning or loosing doesn't make game fun, it's true, but if you loose and managed to kill 4 guys in return, not Imperial Knights, 4 infantry guys, sorry, but to me that really doesn't sound that much fun.

[Rabidbunneh]

My friends Death guard list:

 

*Tooled up Praetor

*Primus Medicae in Cataphractii

*Siege Master

*2x20 Tacs with Apothecaries

*2x10 Autocannon Squads

*10 Lascannon Support marines

*10 Grave Wardens

*1 Leviathan Siege Dreadnought

 

My list was:

 

*Tankibune: 275

*5 Heateron Guard: 4 Praesidium Shields, 3 Solerite Gauntlets, 1 Paragon Blade and a Vexilla with Power Sword: 450

*2x6 Custodian Guard: Vexilla with Power Axe, Coronus: 465

*2x6 Custodian Sentinels: 1 Solerite Gauntlet, Vexilla with Power Sword: 390

*2x3 Custodian Sentinels: 180

*Cadillus: 195

 

We did Age of Darkness missions, triangle deployment, capture the objective in your opponent's zone. My friend deployed defensively as he couldn't get to my objective. Leviathan and Grave Wardens with Primus and the Praetor were at the front to lead the charge. I deployed as far forwards as I could. Tribune infiltrates with the Heateron guard, 2 6 man Sentinel Squads infiltrate towards the centre right to put pressure on early.

 

Turn 1 saw his entire army wound my Tankibune once, a Sentinel was wounded and the Cadillus was shaken. My shooting kills a Grave Warden, Stun the Leviathan and a few Tactical marines. I am too far away to charge.

 

Turn 2 saw my friend go for the charge. I lose 2 Sentinels in one squad and one wound on another squad. Heateron Guard get charged by the leviathan, Grave Wardens fail their charge, 20 Tacs and an Apothecary charge a 6 man sentinel squad with a few wounded models. Leviathan does a wound with hammer of wrath, misses and is destroyed. Tactical Marines bring the Sentinel squad down to 5 models all on one wound and one intact guy, they lose 7 in return and are run down. My turn saw my army creep forwards and kill 7 Lascannon marines in the shooting phase. Wounded squad charges the closest autocannon squad, depleted sentinel squad runs forwards, one guard Squad gets out of the Cadillus to head off the second Tactical Squad. Heateron charge the grave wardens. Wounded squad duly wipe the autocannons. Heateron Guard and Tribune combat starts poorly with my challenge doing nothing and my Vexilla and Paragon Blade models doing nothing. Rad Grenades and poor positioning (models in contact with my Vexilla) see 2 Heateron instantly killed by Power Fists. Solerite Gauntlets kill 7 Grave Wardens and my opponent concedes.

 

At the end of the game my opponent had his Praetor, 2 Grave Wardens and Primus Medicae in combat, 12 or so Tactical marines with an Apothecary and a handful of Lascannon Marines with a Siege Master. I had lost 4 models. The two 3 man sentinel squads and 2 6 man Guard squads in the Coronus were untouched and had done nothing all game. I had the Heateron guard, 4 Sentinels and a 6 man all wounded sentinel squad in his deployment. Victory was a formality as he didn't have anything threatening enough to stop me.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Rabidbunneh

[Charlo]

Tankibune is... So OP  but it makes sense, he should be. I think he'll be nerfed to a 4+ re-roll maximum though eventually.

 

A nice report though and good data for the Imperial Cogitators ;)

[Jarkaira]

Custodes - Training wheels for your journey into Horus Heresy...

[Rabidbunneh]

It was just the infiltrate that broke it. If I had to walk up the board it would have been a much fairer fight. Being able to charge on turn 2 meant my friend didn't have enough time to whittle me down.