[HH1.0] Legio Custodes Tactica

[Caillum]

I'm ordering the Sanguinary Guard power fists to use as Solarite power gauntlets. They look awesome! Little bit of modelling and you have an Aquila instead of a Blood Angels icon.

 

But while Hetaerons are more points efficient due to their increased A, W & Ld, they also have some negatives that aren't as easily calculated:

- they're not Troops choices.

- they are in a highly contested slot,

- they don't score.

I like how they've balanced Hetaerons and Sentinels in this way. Makes them both worthy choices.

 

I have a harder time selling Custodian Guards though. Because they need to charge to maximise their offensive output, and the Coronus lacks the Assault Transport rule, they're unlikely to get a charge off until Turn 3. But they have one thing going for them - rule of cool. They're so iconic! :)

 

And I've seen someone do cloaks on Hetaeron. Looked really good.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

....sentinels are troops brah.

[Charlo]

....sentinels are troops brah.

 

Yup.

 

And IMO better than the guardians I think for that role.

[Baluc]

Gaurdians excel at charging and clearing objectives. W/ infiltrate they should be in position to do so turn 2.

 

Personally the shield guys look like frauds too me. The massive flexibility of the gaurdian is underrated here.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Sword boards are better for taking fist vexilla.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Gaurdians excel at charging and clearing objectives. W/ infiltrate they should be in position to do so turn 2.

 

Personally the shield guys look like frauds too me. The massive flexibility of the gaurdian is underrated here.

 

Sentinels just take the powerfist and threaten everyone, regardless of charge or not though :/

 

Having to charge for ap 2 < Always having str 10 ap 1 mastercrafted 

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I honestly will be using guardians as backups and objective holders while sentinels do the majority of the fighting and dying. Guardians are such good counter charge units while sentinels are the push forward to hammer the enemy.

 

Guardians in back field to charge anything that is brave enough to deep strike.

[wildweasel]

Guardians can also take the death ray spears.

[Baluc]

 

Gaurdians excel at charging and clearing objectives. W/ infiltrate they should be in position to do so turn 2.

 

Personally the shield guys look like frauds too me. The massive flexibility of the gaurdian is underrated here.

 

Sentinels just take the powerfist and threaten everyone, regardless of charge or not though :/

 

Having to charge for ap 2 < Always having str 10 ap 1 mastercrafted 

 

 

Which inflates the cost and shrinks the cost difference. If you go 2 fists to maximize the benefits of your rules, you only influence the game in one phase. Guardians have sufficient gear to be all comers, between upgrades and weapons.  You do need to look out for boarding shields hidden in units but other than that Guardians provide too many advantages over the sentinels ability to re-roll their save.

[IronDrake28]

Personally, I feel that Sentinels are better used defensively, to shield vehicles or sisters, whilst guardians are better used offensively with infiltrate or deep strike. And now that I've said that I feel kind of silly because that's obviously what they should be doing. XD

[Rabidbunneh]

I thought of them the opposite, use the Sentinels with Solerite Gauntlets as infiltrators as they are more resilient, then have sentinels grabbing objectives and coming up later as a second wave if the 18 infiltrating Custodes aren't enough to stall the enemy. 2 squads each in a Coronus are expensive but really mobile. I'm tempted to convert a few Adrathic spears just to put 1 in each squad and send them Rapier hunting.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Gaurdians excel at charging and clearing objectives. W/ infiltrate they should be in position to do so turn 2.

 

Personally the shield guys look like frauds too me. The massive flexibility of the gaurdian is underrated here.

 

Sentinels just take the powerfist and threaten everyone, regardless of charge or not though :/

 

Having to charge for ap 2 < Always having str 10 ap 1 mastercrafted 

 

 

Which inflates the cost and shrinks the cost difference. If you go 2 fists to maximize the benefits of your rules, you only influence the game in one phase. Guardians have sufficient gear to be all comers, between upgrades and weapons.  You do need to look out for boarding shields hidden in units but other than that Guardians provide too many advantages over the sentinels ability to re-roll their save.

 

 

You were the one who mentioned "charging and clearing objectives"; the assault phase is the only context given.

 

What are some of these "too many advantages"? They generate on average 1.5 more attacks on the charge? Not swinging last? A short range shooting attack? Cost?

 

If you give them melta bombs and adrastite spears they're the same cost. If you don't give them a gun, then you're back to "influencing the game in one phase". Guardians get more attacks, but Sentinels hit more with fists and are viable against every target. 

[Baluc]

201 for 3 Custodes, with shrikes, and adrasite, can target and combat with confidence everything from tactical hordes, castallex, and vehicles. Sentinels, even with the fists give up one of their biggest advantages the ability to kill first, and even larger to have any duality in role.

 

201 gets you 3 sentinels with 2 fists and shrikes.

 

Its just my opinion but I don't forsee Sentinels being played for any extended period of time.  

[Charlo]

I think you're really underselling those shields though.

 

The -1 to hit in combat as well as re-roll 5++ will be key against the likes of castellax and dreads.

[Purge the Daemon]

I think you're really underselling those shields though.

 

The -1 to hit in combat as well as re-roll 5++ will be key against the likes of castellax and dreads.

I'd agree here adrastite is good but the shields are really frigging good.

 

 

Personal I see a use for both adrastite Guard in transports for flying up and being used as a precision tool. Fist and shield sentinels being used to deepstrike and tank anything coming at them and an unavoidable road block.

[Baluc]

I think you're really underselling those shields though.

 

The -1 to hit in combat as well as re-roll 5++ will be key against the likes of castellax and dreads.

 

It might be my sports background coming through but not losing is not the same as trying to winning. Prevent defense is a poor strategy to start from. Presidium shields are an excellent piece of gear but I think they belong on Characters and Hetero guard. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Not sure what games you're playing in where 3 str 5 armour bane shots lets you deal with vehicles or castellax. You simply can't get enough wounds on castellax, while dreads laugh at you.

 

Sentinels actually threaten everything, while averaging a higher hit pool and far more defensives. So in melee they're better both offensively and defensively. I'll trade that for middling shooting, lesser offense that requires a charge, and worse defense. 

[Baluc]

S5 Armourbane, instant death, Ap2 

 

More than sufficient for many duties, especially with move through cover. But also micro managing hit rolls for sentinels is not to my interest. But again I prefer taking the initiative but we'll see how it plays out. 

[TompiQ]

S5 isn't really a threat to T7 though, seeing as Instant Death only triggers on an unsaved wound. The only adrathic weapons I consider are those on the jetbikes to be honest, since they're on a mobile enough platform to make proper use of them despite the shorter range.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I think you are forgetting the pallas that unlike the jetbike can jink and still fire perfectly fine. I will test them kitted with devastator this weekend. Edited March 1, 2017 by Hellex_The_Thanatar

[SkimaskMohawk]

Furthermore, you need to role a 9 to pen AV 13. Against a contemptor you need to pen, get past it's shield and then Immobilized or Explodes so your squad doesn't become useless for the entire game. That's a 5.45% chance per hit, a leviathan laughs you right out.

 

@hellex we're discussing the relative ineffectiveness of the adrathic spear against castellax and other heavy melee threats like dreadnoughts

Edited March 1, 2017 by SkimaskMohawk

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

He said the only ones he would consider but they are on jetbike but pallas have them too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Woops lol.

 

I think the 25 pts for the pallas compared to the 5 for the bikes is the difference

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Sure. But always being able to use it and outflank is nice too.

[Charlo]

 

I think you're really underselling those shields though.

 

The -1 to hit in combat as well as re-roll 5++ will be key against the likes of castellax and dreads.

 

It might be my sports background coming through but not losing is not the same as trying to winning. Prevent defense is a poor strategy to start from. Presidium shields are an excellent piece of gear but I think they belong on Characters and Hetero guard. 

 

True, but the game isn't just about trying to crush your opponent with whatever you have.

 

And the spear guys are expensive and still vulnerable with only a 5++ to protect them, but yes, with their shooting and combat combined can deal with a variety of threats.

 

But the shield guys can take charges incredible well and wear enemies down to hold objectives.

 

Both units have their place, but neither are "better" they just offer different choices.