Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I'm wanting to convert my 40k wolves over to a force that's useable in both 30k and 40k, and I'm a bit unsure as to how to go about doing that. I have about 25 terminators with various loadouts, and I know that I'll have some things that will have to sit out (like my assault cannon termies and my land raider crusader and my TWC). I have a bunch of pistol/chainsword guys that I can use as a Legion tactical squad with their bolters swapped. I also have about 5 squads of grey hunters, which I could also condense into legion tactical squads. I have rhinos, 2 vindicators, 5 drop pods, and a land raider that I can use for HH games. Any suggestions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Your grey hunter packs. You can keep the special weapons and use them as tactical veteran squads or band your special weapons guys into 5-10 man tactical support squads. Bear in mind all the special weapons in a squad must be the same. This would mean condensing your remaining 40 hunters into 4*10 or 2*20 or some orher combination. Also going to be worth mounting banners on a squad member for a vexilla as 30k marines do not have ATSKNF. Terminators. No thunder hammer & stormshield combos unless running as Fists or Salamanders. No assault cannons yet but could proxy as autocannons. Your bloodclaws can become despoilers Skyclaws become assault marines Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4544620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Your grey hunter packs. You can keep the special weapons and use them as tactical veteran squads or band your special weapons guys into 5-10 man tactical support squads. Bear in mind all the special weapons in a squad must be the same. This would mean condensing your remaining 40 hunters into 4*10 or 2*20 or some orher combination. Also going to be worth mounting banners on a squad member for a vexilla as 30k marines do not have ATSKNF. I was indeed thinking along those lines. I do have different special weapons, I think that I can field a 6 man squad of plasma guns in a support squad though. Or field them as veterans. I have plenty of banners. Terminators. No thunder hammer & stormshield combos unless running as Fists or Salamanders. Yeah. My thunderhemmer termies do have stormshields, but I can say they're just for show (or just used as a weapon combo...). No assault cannons yet but could proxy as autocannons. That's actually not a bad idea... Your bloodclaws can become despoilers Despoilers? I figured I'd just use them as tactical marines that traded their bolter for a chainsword. Are Despoilers better? Skyclaws become assault marines I stripped my skyclaws of all their wolfy bits to make Raven Guard Assault marines. So I no longer have skyclaws in my Space Wolves... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4544966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Despoilers are basicaly assault marines on foot bolt pistol and chainsword. I need to check to see if tacticals can swap out stuff as I am not near a book, I thought tacticals were bolters and combat blade only, but it was the tactical veterans who could carry a more mixed loadout. Giving tacticals the option to take BP & ccw invalidates the concept of the despoiler. I was using the Sky claws as an example, could do the same if you collected the outriders, they could be Wolf Guard bikers etc then you have a bike heavy army a la Engir Krakendoom, use Pride of te Legion as a Compny of the Great WOlf equivalent etc... As for the terminators, we will need to see what appears in Inferno in february to see if we do get the option to use shields or not. To make life easier you could glue a storm bolter to the models hip and that would be the ranged weapon sorted (combi bolters are just storm bolters after all) That way you can claim te shield as ornamentation for now but be wysiwyg and if allowed shields in 30K then happy days, the gun is just a decoration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4544977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Despoilers are basicaly assault marines on foot bolt pistol and chainsword. Ah, ok. I need to check to see if tacticals can swap out stuff as I am not near a book, I thought tacticals were bolters and combat blade only, but it was the tactical veterans who could carry a more mixed loadout. Giving tacticals the option to take BP & ccw invalidates the concept of the despoiler. I checked my copy of the Crusade Army list, and Tacticals can indeed take a combat blade or chainsword in place of the bolter for free. Tacticals can also take CCW's for 2ppm in addition to BP and Boltgun. I can see how it would invalidate despoilers, but i don't see that as an entry in the Crusade army list. Perhaps it's a legion specific unit? I was using the Sky claws as an example, could do the same if you collected the outriders, they could be Wolf Guard bikers etc then you have a bike heavy army a la Engir Krakendoom, use Pride of te Legion as a Compny of the Great WOlf equivalent etc... I get ya. I've never really been fond of bikers, at least not for wolves (not when there's TWC to be had). I really like the idea of having a horde of angry vikings storming forward to rip and tear. My 40k lists were mostly drop pod lists, but in 30k that's pretty restrictive. As for the terminators, we will need to see what appears in Inferno in february to see if we do get the option to use shields or not. To make life easier you could glue a storm bolter to the models hip and that would be the ranged weapon sorted (combi bolters are just storm bolters after all) That way you can claim te shield as ornamentation for now but be wysiwyg and if allowed shields in 30K then happy days, the gun is just a decoration. My meta isn't terribly picky on WSYWIG, so I could just say it's wrist mounted and hidden by the shield. As long as the army list reflects what the model has it's fine (as long as you stick to the list and not the model). That's the way my meta works anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 'Despoilers' is just the name of Tactical Squads wielding bolter + CCW. Not a seperate unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Oh okay, Its just when I ordered despoilers I got marines with bolt pistols and chainswords. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Oh okay, Its just when I ordered despoilers I got marines with bolt pistols and chainswords. As did i, i don't think they came with bolters at all........ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Ok, so now that is cleared up... What units work well in 30k? Are termies just as bad as in 40k? Where should I focus my army in a general sense? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Terminators in 30k in my opinion have to have a purpose or function within your lists, and giving them a FNP save of some sort is a huge part of keeping them alive with all the AP2 available in the game i tend to keep my units small no bigger than 5 men and they have the dubious honor of clearing dug in units on points for my other infantry to follow in and hold. I mix my melee weapons but generally stick to combi bolter and one heavy weapon that is geared towards clearing out infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hmm. Using them to clear the way for objective holders is a good idea, and I guess I had forgotten that not everything scores in 30k. If Termies and Veteran Tacticals are taken as troops, do they score? Like in the Pride of the Legion Rite of War? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4545998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Most Terminators have Implaccable Advance, which gives them Objective Secured (even as Elites!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4546014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Obsec isnt a thing in 30k. All implacable advance does is always make the unit scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4546177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Yup flint has it and I have found terminators are wasted holding objectives but in most situations they Excell at claiming them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4546332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Obsec isnt a thing in 30k. All implacable advance does is always make the unit scoring. You're killing me smalls But I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4546355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 So scoring units can contest objectives in a similar way to obsec, if I understand correctly. I wouldn't use Termies to hold objectives, that would be a waste, I'd more likely use Land raiders to deliver a squad of 5 LC guys to an objective to kill anything sitting on it. I'm curious, is there anything that I can use my TWC for (maybe a proxy)? Or are they relegated to the 40k bin? I'm also curious as to whether I should use my 40k termies, or just to use my Cataphractii termies? What's the best loadout for Termies in 30k, choppy or shooty? Which type of armor is best used to represent the VIth legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4546446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 So scoring units can contest objectives in a similar way to obsec, if I understand correctly. I wouldn't use Termies to hold objectives, that would be a waste, I'd more likely use Land raiders to deliver a squad of 5 LC guys to an objective to kill anything sitting on it. I'm curious, is there anything that I can use my TWC for (maybe a proxy)? Or are they relegated to the 40k bin? I'm also curious as to whether I should use my 40k termies, or just to use my Cataphractii termies? What's the best loadout for Termies in 30k, choppy or shooty? Which type of armor is best used to represent the VIth legion? In regards to TWC I'm not sure if there is a good proxy, maybe jetbikes? I'm not sure if the bases are similar, otherwise a biker command squad could work. For terminators I would say that assualt is the place to be. Their shooting is rather suboptimal to focus on, mostly because of having only one special weapon and their main guns aren't much better than tacticals. However if you want to go down the shooty path then volkite charger with a plasma blaster would work, though the volkite chargers are quite expensive. For how you would equip them for assault, I would say power fists across the board with a plasma blaster or autocannon, a chainfist or two, and maybe lightning claws will work well, however we don't know what the wolves special rules will be, which could drastically change how the unit work. For the cataprachtii vs normal terminator armor debate, I would say it really depends on what you want. At the end of the day it's really if you want the better defense of the cataprachtii or ignore ou want the faster normal variant. At the moment the normal terminator armor variant is really inferior to cataprachtii and Tartaros variants due to it not having the better defense of the cataprachtii or the ability to sweeping advance like the tartaros. When it comes to armor variants this is always a personal thing. I will say that to me the wolves could use any of the heresy Mks and look fluffy and cool. If I had to pick one though I would say MK 3 due to its kinda medieval look to it and how it has the heavy feel to it of a shocktrooper. I would take a look at dantays_xv plog if you want any ideas on the better looking variants for you. Hope this helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4548323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 It does help. My Cataphractii are currently equipped with chainfists and combi-bolters, so not really shooty (per se). Most of my Shooty termies have either powerfists or lightning claws in their offhand (with stormbolters in their other). I wouldn't say these are really shooty units, unless I add the heavy weapon (which would be assault cannons proxied as reaper autocannons). I am also leaning towards the MkIII armor for my wolves. I do also have the armor from the SW kits, which would be late heresy at best. Can I use my wolf scouts as a recon squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4548790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 It does help. My Cataphractii are currently equipped with chainfists and combi-bolters, so not really shooty (per se). Most of my Shooty termies have either powerfists or lightning claws in their offhand (with stormbolters in their other). I wouldn't say these are really shooty units, unless I add the heavy weapon (which would be assault cannons proxied as reaper autocannons). I am also leaning towards the MkIII armor for my wolves. I do also have the armor from the SW kits, which would be late heresy at best. Can I use my wolf scouts as a recon squad? Yup, only difference is that recon squads won't have special weapons. Recon squads have the exact same statline as wolf scouts I believe so it's all good. Just be aware that you can't take them as compulsory troops unless you take the recon company ROW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4548793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 It does help. My Cataphractii are currently equipped with chainfists and combi-bolters, so not really shooty (per se). Most of my Shooty termies have either powerfists or lightning claws in their offhand (with stormbolters in their other). I wouldn't say these are really shooty units, unless I add the heavy weapon (which would be assault cannons proxied as reaper autocannons). I am also leaning towards the MkIII armor for my wolves. I do also have the armor from the SW kits, which would be late heresy at best. Can I use my wolf scouts as a recon squad? Yup, only difference is that recon squads won't have special weapons. Recon squads have the exact same statline as wolf scouts I believe so it's all good. Just be aware that you can't take them as compulsory troops unless you take the recon company ROW. Yeah. I was vaguely aware of that. Pity, since all of my favorite troops choices can't be compulsory choices (I really like the Tactical Support Squads with their ability to take volkite chargers, and extra CCW's). I've also been wondering about breacher squads. Are they worth using? Is it worth getting them Land raiders? How would you use them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4548836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Use the volkites in 30 K and call them plasma guns in 40K? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4549571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 Would Imperial Fists rules be a good counts as until our rules drop, or should I just focus on building a generic legion force until we get rules? Any speculation/wishlisting about what we'll get? Some form of shield for our termies would be nice, and counter-attack would be great, in addition to furious charge... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327250-questions-about-the-vith-legion/#findComment-4551067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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