Applications for Legio XVIII

[RikuEru]

 

 

 

It's very interesting, but half of it is covered by Alex when he's in Diplomat mode, just much more visible.

Hrm, ok. Ideas on how to differentiate it - maybe in a way so they are similiar (brothers and all that), but still different, if you analyze them well enough?

Maybe I have to re-read some of Alex's characterization again. I did that some time ago.

To be honest, it's completely understandable that you haven't gotten that vibe from Alex. While I've planned to show Alex's Magnificent Bastard side when it comes to politics, I haven't given many examples of it. But I had planned on escapades were Alex conquers planets without firing a shot, tyrants overthrown by their inferiors through the power of words, and so on. Becoming Warmaster also reduces that side of Alex as he becomes less diplomat and more of an administrator.

Okay...

So maybe I can differentiate between the two:

 

Alex has this effect on people, using his charme, charisma and personality (a la Horus, before his fall) - people believe him, they instinctively trust in him.

Influencing and aiming people is easy for him - because Alex has this presence.

(It is ultimately Alex command that makes them do things.)

 

Primarch XVIII can do the same (comply worlds without a shot), but because he says the right things, in a more... analytical fashion. (A la Sherlock/Spock, etc - less emotional or imposing with his character)

He tells people the things they need, to come to the conclusion and then do the things he planned out. They atleast -believe- they came to their own solution, they only got advice and info from him.

("...just as planned" by him. *cough*)

Edited October 31, 2016 by RikuEru

[simison]

Interesting, a sociopathic Primarch who uses his manipulations for good. Next question, what's the legion like? What's the warrior culture like? Because I understand the aspect of the Emperor this Primarch is emulating, but how does that work with a legion, an organization formed for war?

[Chief Captain Redd]

The description works well for the Bears as I usually say Heavy Assault, but pretty much the same thing.

[Raktra]

Just dropping a note in so I can get the regular updates. Ciao.

[RikuEru]

Interesting, a sociopathic Primarch who uses his manipulations for good. Next question, what's the legion like? What's the warrior culture like? Because I understand the aspect of the Emperor this Primarch is emulating, but how does that work with a legion, an organization formed for war?

Exactly!

 

The Legion, in itself, is a brotherhood in the most basic sense. (emphasized by it being smaller than the others)

Constantly training to be better, to do better, to train (others) better - as a Legion, as a "batallion", as a squad.

Critisize and analyse the strengths and weaknesses of your brother and tell him, so he can better himself, so it might save him or others later. (Could be a cause for misunderstanding with other Legionnaires)

(Over-)analyzing battle situations could turn into a flaw aswell.

(Especially when the time comes for the Primarch to choose a side. With his analyzing and wish to reunite his borthers, he probably takes long to bring it over him and decide that his fallen brothers have strayed to far from the Emperor's and his vision... or NOT!?)

 

Going with the 30k-theme of "what might be the Legions' roles after all the fighting is over", the XVIII Legion could be trying to -already- fulfill or find that role. How can we benefit humanity as best as we can?

 

On one hand there is their strong Idealism (The Emperor's utopic Vision of Humanity prospering and ruling over the galaxy as one united Empire), but their analyzing shows them that there are worlds that need to be beaten to a pulp or fully cleansed.

Some beastly xeno animal races might be unharmed, but everything potentially dangerous must be eradicated.

(...so they act with cold determination if a decision is made)

 

I can't quite put down a certain (historical) culture for them as a stylistic influence.

You are all very far spread (and brilliantly so), I feel.

 

A polynesian-like Style, with personal markings and so on, going with their reverance for spoken languages and knowledge - would be something -I- like.

[...but I don't want that decision to be influenced by my personal excitement for Space Wolves (generally) and Carcharodons atm. Nor would I want to step into anyone's turf.]

 

Without calling it tribes (other people's turf!), the Legion could be split up into units of a handful of squads. (Resembling small island tribes, with very strong bonds and where everyone has to fill more than one role)

These units work in unison to free planets, cleanse them or bring them into compliance any other way.

 

Going with that and their "scout" (not used in the 40k "Scout" sense) specialization there could be unique rank-mixtures:

 

'Scout-Chaplain' = Masters in igniting rebellions, bringing people to their senses, raising morale and motivating them to fight for what is rightfully theirs.

(Think: Rallying political leader)

 

'Scout-Librarian' = Masters of Illusion and distracting, a font of knowledge for the rebels, able to quickly train lower psykers to control and "safely" use their powers for their cause.

 

'Scout-Techmarine' = Masters of Improvisation and Sabotage Effectivity. They can show the people how to make do with the few things they have available, in the most effective way. (A la MacGyver - exaggerating: Disable a Baneblade with a single well placed make-do krak grenade)

 

Again these practices can be seen as very effective and a noble way to lead humanity or as utterly without honor and pathetic by their brothers.

 

 

Edit:

Other idea, would be to make those "units" of squads like caravans (hinting at the Primarchs home planet being a desert world mostly).

They are smaller, nomadic fleets, ahead of other expedition fleets (but less straight headed, rather going by old star charts, trying to find old enclaves of humanity etc.)

They only "infiltrate and influence" planets that are worth that effort - so by the time the main Expeditionary Fleets reach them, they are already "freed" (and in the stage of rebuilding) and compliance is but a formality.

 

Edit #2:

Even the name, Desert Jackels could be kept in that case (if allowed) - so there is less damage done to all your collections of work?

(I in no way want to steal other's ideas, nor would I want to 'salvage' someone else's creative work! Emperor forbid!)

Edited October 31, 2016 by RikuEru

[~Drakzilla~]

[snip]

 

Exactly!

The Legion, in itself, is a brotherhood in the most basic sense. (emphasized by it being smaller than the others)

Constantly training to be better, to do better, to train (others) better - as a Legion, as a "batallion", as a squad.

Critisize and analyse the strengths and weaknesses of your brother and tell him, so he can better himself, so it might save him or others later. (Could be a cause for misunderstanding with other Legionnaires)

(Over-)analyzing battle situations could turn into a flaw aswell.

(Especially when the time comes for the Primarch to choose a side. With his analyzing and wish to reunite his borthers, he probably takes long to bring it over him and decide that his fallen brothers have strayed to far from the Emperor's and his vision... or NOT!?)

Going with the 30k-theme of "what might be the Legions' roles after all the fighting is over", the XVIII Legion could be trying to -already- fulfill or find that role. How can we benefit humanity as best as we can?

On one hand there is their strong Idealism (The Emperor's utopic Vision of Humanity prospering and ruling over the galaxy as one united Empire), but their analyzing shows them that there are worlds that need to be beaten to a pulp or fully cleansed.

Some beastly xeno animal races might be unharmed, but everything potentially dangerous must be eradicated.

(...so they act with cold determination if a decision is made)

 

[snip]

Hmm. Sorry to kind of put a damper on the ideas, but a lot of this^ is almost exactly what I envision as the culture of the Warriors of Peace legion. Less emphasis on bloodless conflict, or empire building. But the calculating, Sherlock Holmes-like Primarch, the strong bonds of brotherhood, the constant improving aspect, the heavy strategic analyzation, and idealism for a unified humanity (founded on science and progress), and a willingness to do what needs to be done when peace doesn't work, those were all major bullet points for the XVII legion. Edited October 31, 2016 by drakzilla

[Generalripphook]

So you want me to post what I would edit of the Jackels or should I just post a new legion?

 

Do we have any legions based of native American culture?

Edited October 31, 2016 by Generalripphook

[Grifftofer]

I guess it depends on what you intend to do if you get the opportunity. Would you rather re-write/tweak the Jackals or come up with something from scratch. Whatever your answer is, give us an idea of where that is headed.

[Skalpynock]

So you want me to post what I would edit of the Jackels or should I just post a new legion?

 

Do we have any legions based of native American culture?

We currently have three (Iron Bears, Eagle Warriors, Grave Stalkers), used to have two more (older interpretations of the Void Eagles, now-replaced Ghost Walkers).

[Sigismund229]

The idea behind Atheas and Taxacis was that they were an idea I had a while back where I toyed with the thought of a legion that had twin primarchs who were complete opposites. The result was Atheas and Taxacis. Atheas is a pysker who formulates their strategies and the like while Taxacis is a warlord with little psychic ability. Where Atheas is a philosopher king(somewhat like the Persian emperors) Taxacis just wants to burn everything in his path and roam where he will. However, they use their skills to complement each other in battle with Atheas commanding and Taxacis leading. Despite this they also intrigue against each other within their legion in order to try and win power over each other by commanding the loyalty of more of their marines. Given that they've inherited the Emperor's facelessness that means they often travel in disguise among their marines to see what general feeling is about them and their brother. So their legion is kind of at war with itself before the Insurrection even begins.

 

 

I could also use Atheas Taxacae, the "Wanderer". Switch out his psychic abilities for dreams(Curze like, we lack that in the BotL 'verse) which he then uses his knucklebone things to try and interpret. He's naturally curious about the world and encourages his sons to be the same so he could try and amass as much knowledge as possible and in his spare time he writes philosophy(part of the reason he was censured). Like Atheas and Taxacis he can change his face at will.

 

Please forgive the slightly confused nature of this, I'll try and put together a more coherent version when I have more time.

[AlphariusOmegon108]

 

I could also use Atheas Taxacae, the "Wanderer". Switch out his psychic abilities for dreams(Curze like, we lack that in the BotL 'verse) which he then uses his knucklebone things to try and interpret. He's naturally curious about the world and encourages his sons to be the same so he could try and amass as much knowledge as possible and in his spare time he writes philosophy(part of the reason he was censured). Like Atheas and Taxacis he can change his face at will.

 

 

This is EXACTLY what Alexos is into. Dreams and visions? The main reason Alexos goes traitor...

[Sigismund229]

 

 

 

I could also use Atheas Taxacae, the "Wanderer". Switch out his psychic abilities for dreams(Curze like, we lack that in the BotL 'verse) which he then uses his knucklebone things to try and interpret. He's naturally curious about the world and encourages his sons to be the same so he could try and amass as much knowledge as possible and in his spare time he writes philosophy(part of the reason he was censured). Like Atheas and Taxacis he can change his face at will.

 

This is EXACTLY what Alexos is into. Dreams and visions? The main reasThe idea behind Atheas and Taxacis was that they were an idea I had a while back where I toyed with the thought of a legion that had twin primarchs who were complete opposites. The result was Atheas and Taxacis. Atheas is a pysker who formulates their strategies and the like while Taxacis is a warlord with little psychic ability. Where Atheas is a philosopher king(somewhat like the Persian emperors) Taxacis just wants to burn everything in his path and roam where he will. However, they use their skills to complement each other in battle with Atheas commanding and Taxacis leading. Despite this they also intrigue against each other within their legion in order to try and win power over each other by commanding the loyalty of more of their marines. Given that they've inherited the Emperor's facelessness that means they often travel in disguise among their marines to see what general feeling is about them and their brother. So their legion is kind of at war with itself before the Insurrection even begins.

 

 

I could also use Atheas Taxacae, the "Wanderer". Switch out his psychic abilities for dreams(Curze like, we lack that in the BotL 'verse) which he then uses his knucklebone things to try and interpret. He's naturally curious about the world and encourages his sons to be the same so he could try and amass as much knowledge as possible and in his spare time he writes philosophy(part of the reason he was censured). Like Atheas and Taxacis he can change his face at will.

 

Please forgive the slightly confused nature of this, I'll try and put together a more coherent version when I have more time. on Alexos goes traitor...

I thought with Alexos it was the influence of the guy who merged his soul with Alexos' that made him turn traitor?

[AlphariusOmegon108]

But dreams and visions are the main reason he went traitor still, his visions of heresy, his random outbreaks. His slow reactiveness in person, but expansion of the mind are his main characteristics. Remember the book I wrote with his dreams ;)

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

 

I could also use Atheas Taxacae, the "Wanderer". Switch out his psychic abilities for dreams(Curze like, we lack that in the BotL 'verse) which he then uses his knucklebone things to try and interpret. He's naturally curious about the world and encourages his sons to be the same so he could try and amass as much knowledge as possible and in his spare time he writes philosophy(part of the reason he was censured). Like Atheas and Taxacis he can change his face at will.

This is EXACTLY what Alexos is into. Dreams and visions? The main reasThe idea behind Atheas and Taxacis was that they were an idea I had a while back where I toyed with the thought of a legion that had twin primarchs who were complete opposites. The result was Atheas and Taxacis. Atheas is a pysker who formulates their strategies and the like while Taxacis is a warlord with little psychic ability. Where Atheas is a philosopher king(somewhat like the Persian emperors) Taxacis just wants to burn everything in his path and roam where he will. However, they use their skills to complement each other in battle with Atheas commanding and Taxacis leading. Despite this they also intrigue against each other within their legion in order to try and win power over each other by commanding the loyalty of more of their marines. Given that they've inherited the Emperor's facelessness that means they often travel in disguise among their marines to see what general feeling is about them and their brother. So their legion is kind of at war with itself before the Insurrection even begins.

I could also use Atheas Taxacae, the "Wanderer". Switch out his psychic abilities for dreams(Curze like, we lack that in the BotL 'verse) which he then uses his knucklebone things to try and interpret. He's naturally curious about the world and encourages his sons to be the same so he could try and amass as much knowledge as possible and in his spare time he writes philosophy(part of the reason he was censured). Like Atheas and Taxacis he can change his face at will.

Please forgive the slightly confused nature of this, I'll try and put together a more coherent version when I have more time. on Alexos goes traitor...

I thought with Alexos it was the influence of the guy who merged his soul with Alexos' that made him turn traitor?

Habemt we estsblished that alexis has a mental disorder and multiple personalities? And one want s cjaos while the other well some smeagol gollum style

[Sigismund229]

That's what I thought and I thought it was the split personalities rather than dreams and visions

[AlphariusOmegon108]

it's the combination, he is a psyker after all

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well. Sanguinius and curze had both visions. Maybe this will function here as well? But on the other hand alexandros ( guys you should rethink your naming) and icarion both habe visions and can read the future too. That is their thing. Do we really need another precog? I like the concept of the twin primarchs more. Bit i suggest they shouldn't rival for power. They should know their abilites and strwngth and always work togheter. Even on the battlefield. For example alone they are a well....not so strong but togheter they could get a boost ao that they are whole and strong. Complimenting each other. Alone preator lv char. Togheter withing 2" primarch top tier or the like

[Demus Ragnok]

I think rather than just accepting random offerings we should put our heads together and write a legion/primarch help wanted ad. One with job requirements, qualifications and all such. We need to really look at what we have from a narrative stand point and then decide what we need to fill he void.

 

Remember this is a story that is being told that just happens to have pictures and rules as well.

 

Story.

 

Being told.

[Sete]

Well no one just dropped with random offerings. We were invited to do so. Edited October 31, 2016 by Sete

[simison]

Isn't that what we're doing right now? Analyzing, offering critiques, and so on, trying to figure out what best fits into the universe? 

[MikhalLeNoir]

Maybe Demus wants the big show. Make something similar to the black library auditions? Phew. Good luck i am already inside.

 

Ibut I think he wamts to make it official that se are looking. And maybe post it on the different boards. Right?

Edited October 31, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Demus Ragnok]

That is what we're doing.

 

My point is is there a check list of expectations and outright exclusions?

 

I know you have excluded things as the thread has gone on but do we have any idea what we are looking for?

 

Does the group have an expectation here or are we just going to slog through turning bac the same character over and over?

Well no one just dropped with random offerings. We were invited to do so.

So you had a primarch job description to go by?

[~Drakzilla~]

I'd like to add on to what Demius said by saying that there are a lot of novel ideas that go in a lot of different directions, but we shouldn't just be analyzing based on how novel or intriguing the ideas are. First and foremost, they need to fill a niche in the narrative, rather than "who's got the coolest legion idea" that may overcomplicate or not fit into the story well.

 

For all the good things we have going on for us, one big differerence we have with how the canonverse storyline was created is that each Legion wasn't made in a vacuum, or overseen by one person, they were all made to coordinate with each other in terms of the story, and to fill a specific narrative niche. That's a challenge we have to keep in mind.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Oh. Was Totally wrong.

 

Thing is: we can now be relatively flexible and tie the new legion without big probs into our fluff. I think that is the reason we are relatively open with only a few restrictions and no expectations what we want. Atm we want a good legion which we could fit into the universe and maybe adapt the universe to this new legion as well.

[Demus Ragnok]

a good legion .

Tell me what this means to you Mikhal, please.