Leman Russ - choosing variants and sets

[tvih]

I was supposed to sell my allied detachment-sized IG, and actually did sell my vehicles, but then it seems I took a 180 turn and am apparently instead buying some more stuff. Sigh. As I sold my Manticore, I was thinking of a Leman Russ to replace it in the Heavy slot (just the one, for cost reasons).

 

There are many variants though, and a bit annoyingly they're divided between the two different sets. So, if you were to buy one Leman Russ, which variant and thus which kit would it be? I've googled for topics on the variants, but many aren't "up to the times." I'm intrigued by the Executioner, but with my dice rolls it'd probably blow up on turn 1. Demolisher and Punisher seem cool, but lack range. Something that's able to use sponsons would be nice, thus, I guess Ordnance = bad (which would also discount Demolisher). Exterminator could do a reasonable amout of dakka if you add heavy bolters and maybe even a stubber.

[duz_]

Demoliser punisher and executioner all come from the same kit so you can magnetise and have all 3 for the price of 1.

 

Depends what you want to use it for. Those variants are all great. Executioner is brilliant but you will blow yourself up every second game firing 5 shots a turn but excellent at TEQ/MC/GMC damage.

Demoliser is good to double out T5 and armour.

Punisher w HBs is good anti horde.

All have AV11 rear which means no space marines pounding it to death on 6s.

 

The other variants aren't bad either and cheaper too, but do have AV10 rear.

 

LBRT with no sponsons is always a good take all comers.

[Quneitra]

You can never go wrong with a Russ! I've used pretty much every variant (baring the FW Conqueror and Annihilator) at one point or another, and so here is my humble opinion on each:

 

LRBT - The meat to the rest of the Guard's potatoes. Good at many things, not excellent at anything. With how vehicle damage is done in 7th its a tiny bit more suited to anti-infantry work, with its large blast and AP3 goodness, but they'll still trash a vehicle. Still though, if in doubt, take it - its cheap and has never let me down.

 

Vanquisher - This is your dedicated tank hunter. In exchange for general effectiveness, you get a very specialized vehicle/monstrous creature hunter. Honestly, BS3 Vanqs are a waste of points, you need BS4 to really make them work. Note that the FW Armoured Battlegroup list offers command and commissar BS4 Vanqs that can take special goodies, so if you can, use them instead of the vanilla Guard/AM Vanq. In this case though, they're beautiful, and will help make you the king of treads.

 

Eradicator - Situational. The fluff is pretty cool - it fires nuke shells - but its mainly suited for work against fragile armies such as Guard/AM or Dark Eldar, as its vehicle and MEQ killing potential is pretty poor. I don't like this variant since you can get cheaper and/or more powerful anti-cover from other means, while if worst comes to worst you can spam blasts from other Russes. If you take the FW Armoured Battlegroup list, you can get the equivalent of Eradicator shells for your LRBTs to use when necessary at relatively cheap prices, making it redundant.

 

Demolisher - The definition of brute force. Better at everything compared to the LRBT, and has more rear armor as well, but has to give up a ton of range. To be honest though, I haven't found the 24" being too restrictive when using the tank, so its a viable if more expensive alternative. Keep in mind that you've got the best front armor of any tank in the game, and have reinforced rear armor, so getting close isn't too much of a risk compared to, say, a Medusa. I like it, but I normally run with LRBTs because every point counts.

 

Punisher - BRRRRRRRRRRRT. Pure anti-infantry/crowd control. Honestly, while the gun looks and feels fun, the lack of AP, plus BS3 has generally disappointed me since I can just plop down an LRBT or Demolisher and still get good anti-infantry while having anti-vehicle capability. Its really only useful with Pask as part of the Paskquisher build, since his BS4 and special rule make it more effective at hunting infantry and light vehicles. I avoid that build due to its points cost, but see if it has a home in your meta first.

 

Executioner - My first true (40k) love, seriously. This tank trades a little bit of anti-vehicle capability for the ability to eat MCs, termies, and whatever else your enemy finds valuable alive. Now since its near the same cost as a LRBT, its more viable than ever in-game. Hilariously though, since its AP2, it along with the Vanq and the Demolisher are the Russ variants that have a chance at nuking a vehicle with one shot, so its arguably better at handling light armor mech spam than most of the other variants. The issue comes down to Gets Hot! rolls, which is something you should factor in, but I haven't found it much of an issue yet - your mileage may vary though. I try to fit it into my lists regardless, since it'll usually win you back its points very quickly.

 

Now to speak about sponsons - honestly, sponsons on a Russ regardless of variant are more of a snack than anything else. I generally find them overpriced for what they do, and due to ordnance rules they're mostly useless on LRBTs and Demolishers, so I don't really take them any more except for the occasional plasma cannon one. Plasma cannons are good on Vanqs and Exes since they improve their all-around MC/TEQ/light vehicle hunting capability (think about using hull lascannons as well for added punch), while heavy bolters will give a few AP4 shots to a Punisher. The role and statline of the Eradicator pretty much makes sponsons ridiculously wasteful.

 

As for ordnance, its a lifesaver, no questions asked. It makes your Russes much better at smashing vehicles, which IMO is worth the loss of the ability to fire secondary weps at full BS.

[tvih]

duz_, I do plan to magnetize the variants of the given set - I'm actually a bit of a magnet freak, you could say, even magnetizing things that make no sense at times :P

 

Quneitra, thanks for the analysis. The Punisher does really suffer from BS3, which is a shame. I suppose the Executioner isn't so badly affected given the blast markers. The plasma cannon does look pretty menacing, too. And of course its suicidal nature does have some strange appeal... ;) As for the Demolisher, I suppose one reason I'm not so tempted is the IG for me are indeed mostly an ally, where if I play with my marines as the primary detachment I have the Vindis for 24" Demolisher goodness at a lower price and nicer look... although admittedly also with much lower durability (the weak sides really are a bummer and should really be AV12 given the extra plating on the model, but I suppose that's a whine for another thread and forum). With the Sisters it could be nice though, I suppose, as they lack in S10 and blasts in general.

 

Down the road I guess it could make sense to buy one of each Leman Russ set, but it's a bit of a downer not being able to play both at once effectively then, as if they are in a squadron they'd have to shoot the same targets as I recall, while their armament would be quite different. If I were to run IG as a combined arms detachment, to fulfill the troop requirement I'd need to run veteran squads, given my limited amount of infantry. But then I could run the Russes separately.

 

Beyond all this, as my infantry is a mix of Steel Legion and Vostroyans (plus the 10 dudes from Start collecting: Militarum Tempestus that I'm likely to order), I feel painting any vehicles is gonna be a pain...

[WarriorFish]

Did someone say magnetising? There's also a Russ Tactica for perusal, where I recommend taking a specialist Russ if you're only having the one. It depends on what you may need in your list accordingly but when in doubt I add a Demolisher I use Vindicators regularly for my Marines and while they are cheaper the enhanced durability of the Russ makes it superior in my opinion. The Demolisher cannon is less threatening when your opponent can fart at the side armour to take it out

Don't forget the Tank Commander if you want to squeeze in some more armour

[Shamansky]

Speaking of 'Gets hot' you should not forget about 4+ save that vehicles have. During a tornament of four games i had 2 full plasmacutioners and only 3 hull points were lost because of 'overheating'. 

Blast weapons suffer fighting invisible witch death stars that are too common in my meta. That's why I personally prefer using Exterminator variant and get pan cakes from artillery. Sponsons and hull weapon can really make an Exterminator to be jack of all trades for a reasonable price.

[tvih]

Speaking of 'Gets hot' you should not forget about 4+ save that vehicles have. During a tornament of four games i had 2 full plasmacutioners and only 3 hull points were lost because of 'overheating'. 

Blast weapons suffer fighting invisible witch death stars that are too common in my meta. That's why I personally prefer using Exterminator variant and get pan cakes from artillery. Sponsons and hull weapon can really make an Exterminator to be jack of all trades for a reasonable price.

 

Oh, is that vehicle gets hot save new in 7th or have I just missed it in 6th? Not that I ever personally had any vehicle that would've had to worry about gets hot before. But with that in mind I guess it makes me lean towards the Executioner, though as mentioned a dakka-Exterminator has its appeal as well. But I guess not too surprisingly my gaming group's meta is quite marine-heavy, so the AP2 blasts would come in handy a lot.

[Shamansky]

With those new marine witch tricks+a no-brainer invisibility you may not find suitable targets for those AP2 hits from time to time.

[tjr]

Speaking of 'Gets hot' you should not forget about 4+ save that vehicles have. During a tornament of four games i had 2 full plasmacutioners and only 3 hull points were lost because of 'overheating'. 

Blast weapons suffer fighting invisible witch death stars that are too common in my meta. That's why I personally prefer using Exterminator variant and get pan cakes from artillery. Sponsons and hull weapon can really make an Exterminator to be jack of all trades for a reasonable price.

 

Could you elaborate on the highlighted text please? 

 

Which sponsons are you thinking about?

[Shamansky]

Multi-meltas+lascannon — make an 'imperial knight' cry

Plasma-sponsons — S7 synergy and 'let their saves fail'

heavy bolters all around — 'got no money for Pask'

[tjr]

Multi-meltas+lascannon — make an 'imperial knight' cry

Plasma-sponsons — S7 synergy and 'let their saves fail'

heavy bolters all around — 'got no money for Pask'

 

Thanks a lot. This sounds interesting :)

[casb1965]

 

Speaking of 'Gets hot' you should not forget about 4+ save that vehicles have. During a tornament of four games i had 2 full plasmacutioners and only 3 hull points were lost because of 'overheating'. 

Blast weapons suffer fighting invisible witch death stars that are too common in my meta. That's why I personally prefer using Exterminator variant and get pan cakes from artillery. Sponsons and hull weapon can really make an Exterminator to be jack of all trades for a reasonable price.

 

Oh, is that vehicle gets hot save new in 7th or have I just missed it in 6th? Not that I ever personally had any vehicle that would've had to worry about gets hot before. But with that in mind I guess it makes me lean towards the Executioner, though as mentioned a dakka-Exterminator has its appeal as well. But I guess not too surprisingly my gaming group's meta is quite marine-heavy, so the AP2 blasts would come in handy a lot.

 

 

Think I've missed the 4+ save somewhere along the line as well, where do LRs pick that up from?

[zero88]

It should be in the BRB under "Gets Hot and Vehicles" ..it offers some protection but in a six turn game where you fire five shots a turn that's about 2.5 unsaved HPs. I've thought about making a Plasma firebase with two fully decked out Executioners parked in cover with camo netting then a tech priest with a few servitors hiding behind them repairing them as they go and granting Machine Spirit to let a turret split fire for extra plasma goodness

[tvih]

Too bad the LR in the "Start collecting: Astra Militarum" box is the standard variant. Plus of course Cadian infantry, which I don't like much (and don't come with plasma/melta)! Though I'm in the problematic position where my Guard is large enough points-wise to be a primary detachment, but model-wise running a Company Command Squad + Infantry Platoon eats up every troop model I have, leaving none to make up a second troop slot (Veteran squad). I guess I could put half of my heavy weapons into the infantry squads, but even that would free up 6 models (plus I think I have a sergeant to spare). The SC:AM box would give a squad to use as veterans for a cheap price, but... Also I'd rather not mix my Steel Legion and Vostroyan in the same squad, but for my Company Command I have to as I only have two plasma guns of each type, and I'm two Vostroyan las gun models short for the infantry squad!

[WarriorFish]

Page 164 for the Gets Hot rule and the vehicle 4+ save :)

[casb1965]

We've been playing 7th at our club since it came out and I don't think one of us noticed that

[WarriorFish]

That's always the problem with a rules update that is mostly a tweaking of the previous one - very easy to miss changes. It's not the immunity vehicles used to have, but better than nothing.

[casb1965]

Just need to hunt down a pdf of the Armoured Shield formation and I'm getting a couple of Russes to bulk out my Inquisition army.