Master of Mankind - Review or Spoilers?

[HeritorA]

I think uncle killing father, avenged by son is a classic route on the heroes journey. Maybe, maybe not. But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

THE LION KING

which he watched with his son So - now we have the roots

[m0nolith]

I think uncle killing father, avenged by son is a classic route on the heroes journey. Maybe, maybe not. But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

 

 

THE LION KING

There has never been a better excuse to use this image...so

 

http://img1.reactor.cc/pics/post/Warhammer-40000-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Emperor-of-Mankind-Imperium-3284325.png

[HeritorA]

I think uncle killing father, avenged by son is a classic route on the heroes journey. Maybe, maybe not. But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

THE LION KING

There has never been a better excuse to use this image...so

http://img1.reactor.cc/pics/post/Warhammer-40000-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Emperor-of-Mankind-Imperium-3284325.png

Well DONE! I'll applaud you!

[Arkangilos]

 

I think uncle killing father, avenged by son is a classic route on the heroes journey. Maybe, maybe not. But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

 

 

THE LION KING

There has never been a better excuse to use this image...so

 

 

http://img1.reactor.cc/pics/post/Warhammer-40000-%D1%84%D1%8D%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%8B-Emperor-of-Mankind-Imperium-3284325.png

 

 

My phone quote isn't working, and on my surface 3, my likes aren't working, but this was golden!

[b1soul]

But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

THE LION KING

Inspired by Hamlet, 1 of 3 plays by Shakespire!

[m0nolith]

But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

THE LION KING

Inspired by Hamlet, 1 of 3 plays by Shakespire!

I remember that giving me a chuckle when I heard it

[HeritorA]

But secretly I don't think it was Star Wars, it was....

THE LION KING

Inspired by Hamlet, 1 of 3 plays by Shakespire!

I remember that giving me a chuckle when I heard it

Oh yes, several chuckles :)

[Splog]

I liked the parallels between the titans and daemons; they're revered as 'gods', they (or at least some of them) exist due to the minds of mankind, and they like to shout their names at their enemies.

[helterskelter]

Up to page 118 and I want to punch the emperor in his face. Repeatedly. And shout at him for being silly.

[Pariah32]

I really feel this book needs a second read, finished it so quickly I need to reassess it all.

What I will say is that this book is juicy as hell!

oh and Arkhan Land rules

[bluntblade]

Into Exile involves Land - should I read it before or after MoM?

[Marshal Rohr]

Into Exile is sublime. It doesn't hurt to read it before or after. It's short, sweet, and compelling.

[bluntblade]

I just meant chronologically.

[Marshal Rohr]

Oh, sorry :D it's before MoM as the Fists invade Mars. So concurrently with Mechanicum I guess?

[drooling blood]

Here are some of my favorite bits, concerning how the Emperor views his Primarchs, and his relationship to them:

The emperor does not view himself as the Primarchs Father. He over and over hammers home his viewpoints that the Primarchs are weapons and Generals, not his Children. in fact he verbatim says to Arkhan Land in regards to Angron "It is not my son. None of them are. They are warlord and generals bred to serve a purpose."

Additionally, he refers to the Primarchs as "The Creatures that call themselves my son. My necessary tools."

To convey this theme, He pretty much never refers to them by their names, but instead by their numeral designation or "it". For instance, referring to his upcoming duel fight with "the sixteenth" referring to Horus.

When investigating the extent of Angron's degradation, and the effect of the nails, he mutters to himself that "A damaged Primarch is better than no Primarch" And that he thinks he will return "the Twelfth" to It's legion.

You've gotta wonder if he views the Primarchs with such detached emotion, but in person he treats them like sons... maybe the custodes should take a step back and wonder if he feels that way about them. The Primarchs are closer in function and ability to the Emperor than the custodes, so all that arrogance about being favored by the emperor may not be reality. The Primarchs thinks he loves them like sons, and they couldn't be more wrong. I hope the custodes get taken down a peg too after all that they talked about the Fists and Blood Angels.

It treats everyone like that behind their backs. But questioning Its ideas leads down the path of the false honey pot.

At this point Im not even sure if the salvation of the human race was its objective.

It brought Land in for a second opinion.

It wont tell them to stop, even after Nikea. Because they fight harder if they believe, in it i guess.

It even says as much to his golden boys. And even theyll get commissared in front of its spear if it has too.

The "I dont know" thing is easier to explain. Its just come from a huge battle, It was nearly killed. Plan in ruins.

Maybe a Custodes or two will begin to question.

I hope ADB chimes in and says he has something planed for the Angels and/or Fists.

Even just a paragraph, Fist and Angel on the wall, golden boy or five turn up, we'll kill them all, dies in 5 seconds, or something.

Something I havent seen mentioned after pages and pages. What if its, both a perpetual and a weapon of the DOAT?

A somehow weaponized perpetual.

[Mellow]

It came into being before the DAoT so it's not from that time period.

[Scribe]

Why bare we changing the Emperor's pronoun here. It's been He/Him/His, capitalized since forever...

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, "It" is definitely a "He". Even if he isn't a human, we still refer to living beings as he or she depending on gender.

 

Anyways, The Emperor isn't really even treating his Primarchs that bad. So what if he refers to them by their number to other people? At one point of time I was referred to as "109" and it wasn't that bad. He calls them by their name when talking to them, and as other people have pointed out, it's a perception thing. I'm sure when talking to a lot of people he would refer to them by their name, rather than number.

 

-edit, spelling-

[Scribe]

I don't know I still don't even have my copy (thanks for :cussing nothing BL pre-order) but I think it's been reasoned well enough that it's all perceptions and nuances around Him and how people are able to process His precense and interactions.

 

Remember how people acted around Lorgar in The First Heretic.

[karden00]

Interesting new direction with this novel. I suppose it really may not be an emotional link with Horus that causes him to hold back, unless this detachment is some form of denial.

 

I'm about half way through the book, and have been very good about not spoiling myself on this thread, but where is Valdor?

[b1soul]

CV is Imperial Propaganda

 

We'll see how BL handles the E vs. Horus

[ZebraM]

Interesting new direction with this novel. I suppose it really may not be an emotional link with Horus that causes him to hold back, unless this detachment is some form of denial.

 

I'm about half way through the book, and have been very good about not spoiling myself on this thread, but where is Valdor?

 

 

He shows up for a meeting of the leaders of the Imperium (Dorn, Malcaldor, Mechanicus etc) and he shows up in a memory. It seems like he hasn't been directly involved with the Webway War since it's beginnings but instead has been tasked with dealing with matters on Terra and the Heresy.

 

[HeritorA]

 

Interesting new direction with this novel. I suppose it really may not be an emotional link with Horus that causes him to hold back, unless this detachment is some form of denial.

 

I'm about half way through the book, and have been very good about not spoiling myself on this thread, but where is Valdor?

 

 

He shows up for a meeting of the leaders of the Imperium (Dorn, Malcaldor, Mechanicus etc) and he shows up in a memory. It seems like he hasn't been directly involved with the Webway War since it's beginnings but instead has been tasked with dealing with matters on Terra and the Heresy.

 

 

Because Valdor has a looooooott to do - even if Dorn can build a fortress, humans, astrotelepathica and Malcador/Imperial Palace issues  are steal needed to be dealt with

[Xisor]

Edit: wrong thread

[Rob P]

 

Let’s start with the positives.

I loved the prologue.

I loved the names for the characters they all fit so well, whether it be Ra Endymion the Custodes or Arkhan Land the Technoarchaeologist (another cool word added to the lore).

I liked the way the Custodes were compared Astartes and how they viewed the Astartes. I liked what we saw of the Sisters of Silence and how their language was conveyed to the reader at times through inference.

I liked the take on the Mechanicum and I’m not usually a fan of the Mechanicum. Arkhan Land’s character came across very well. I really liked this nugget from Alpha-Rho-25 too:

‘These creatures that he fought now for five years were hardly ‘daemons’ in the terms referred to in human mythology. They were entities of incorporeal origin, breaching the barrier between the unmapped tides of the aether and the material universe. Aliens, then. A xenos breed from the warp. It was quantifiably true.’

I broadly enjoyed the Emperor scenes but it’s all a bit of smoke and mirrors. For example, he makes several comments about the primarchs being weapons rather than sons, but I get the feeling that could both be true and a soft lie to win over the logical Mechanicum.

Chapter 21 was wonderful. By far the highlight of the book. I loved the vignettes. So many little stories that told a larger picture.

I liked the introduction of Jaya, her back story, her predicament and where that story could have gone.

The early Hieronyma stuff is pretty good.

I liked when the Emperor left the Golden Throne and the start of the attack against the daemons had the visuals of an angelic host.

Finally, I liked the line about each side learning as the war goes on.

There was a fair few large things that I didn’t like.

From a technical point of view ADB uses short sentences, which are usually good and keeping the pace going and keeping the reader on task. However, in this book, I felt that there was far too much description which means that the paragraphs became difficult to read. Instead of being catapulted through the story I felt that we were being taken down a long corridor and we were being forced to look at and appreciate a line of portraits before we could advance to the exciting thing at the end behind the door with the ? on it. Chapter 15 is a prime example of this, but it occurs throughout. Now I know a lot of readers will freakin’ love this, but I find it tedious and it made the book difficult to read.

I also felt the plot was lacking. It’s very straightforward and is stretched by the above. I didn’t finish the book satisfied. I will mention specific points further on.

In terms of character development I found the Custodes dull and clone-like. I think that is probably an accurate portrayal, but it is disappointing nonetheless. Similarly, The Sisters of Silence (whilst less dull) were very like each other. I didn’t get the Blood Angel and Skoia didn’t give me the emotive oomph I needed for her story line (1000 psykers. pfft! That’s nothing to the betrayals we’ve seen before).

I didn’t like the undivided daemon. I would have groaned less if its name had been Samus (honestly). It seemed to follow a relatively simply progression of wreck everything, possess stuff, wreck more things. The Black Sky ‘betrayal’ felt reminiscent of things we have seen before but didn’t feel as well executed (as, say, House Devine). Similarly, Ra =/= Meros?

The war in the webway also felt like the rhythm of the war was off. For example, it seems to start where they’re struggling to keep the defense, but maintaining; then the main characters arrive; then it’s almost immediately changes, without much of a catalyst, to ‘no, we’re screwed’.

All in all I liked bits of the book but I was not satisfied by the product as a whole. My biggest gripe is the first negative point I made above. Too much description and not enough dialogue.

 

 

So did the void dragon get dragged to Mars via the webway?