Issues with New Custodes' Models

[Arik Taranis]

WARNING RANT AND POSSIBLE UNPOPULAR OPION AHEAD READ AT OWN DISCRETION

WARNING LONG

(Also don't really know where to put this under so put it here, if there is somewhere else it should be placed please tell me)

 

 

As A long time fan of 40k my favourite force is undoubtedly the Custodes, this dates back to the release of the Collect Visions (which if you don't have you should go buy right NOW!), to those of who remember this was the first real proper look we got of the whole HH. Its from this that the desire for Custodes models first appeared, and overtime I dispersed especially when forge world said on their old Facebook page that they would never be making Custodes (funny that). When it was announced that Custodes would be getting models the hype and anticipation was real and there was no stopping it. Having only just looked at both GW and FW website today and seeing the models (yes I know a bit late), I'm forced to concluded that Custodes models should never have been made in the first place.

 

These models look like absolute :cuss: it looks like GW rummaged though it spare bits box and taken the torso and legs from the sigmarines, and the head from the old high elfs. I mean how do you screw up so badly with these models when you have close to 10 years of artwork to base the design off. Where are the capes, the red tabards, the cingulum military things (leather strips for those to lazy to google), the leather only gloves (and no putting leather on top of power armour gloves does not count). An the smaller things, for example why do the customs bear the 2 headed eagle on their armour when they should only have the one headed eagle with lighting bolt, and why do they have what can only be purity seals on their standard, I mean come on purity seals.

 

But I can get pass most of that, what I can't get past it their stupid :cuss: weapons I don't care if they box comes with enough guardian spears to outfit the whole squad, how the hell did the designs for those swords even get approved, it looks like something from a Japanese game (you know those big stupid looking swords). And the shields I mean come on a shield shaped like what I can only assume is an eagle spreading its wings. The Custodes are about practicality not bling and looking awesome (thats a side benefit).

 

Ultimately that is the root of the models problem GW went for bling instead of practicality, And it's sad because FW was doing such a good job with the HH models before GW decided the make the Custodes so they could sell them in a box set it every store for an extra buck.

 

END RANT

[Dagoth Ur]

Alright, let's adress this point by point.

The models don't look like, as you put it, "like absolute ", it is just your opinion that they do. Many people, myself amongst them, quite enjoy how they look.
The aquilla is a point of semantics, as by the Heresy the Imperium has adopted the two-headed eagle as its symbol (One head stands for the Imperium, the other for the Mechanicum according to lexicanum). If at all, the Custodes should sport more of the raptora imperialis, a raptor head sitting on four bolts, as that was the emperor's symbol before the union with mars.
You want practicality but also want leather-only gloves, the boots (I asume here) and capes? You do realize that none, NONE, of this is in any way practical or useful in the given setting? Custodes have a practical reason for existing, being bodyguards, but they have never ever been designed with practicability in mind. Capes are not practical in any form of battle, neither are gloves or leather boots in a setting where the bodyguards should be able to follow their master anyhwere, no matter the atmosphere, pressure etc. A sealed armor makes way more practical sense.
If you google Custodes Artwork, you'll see how blinged out they are. Apart from Rogue Trader (Where they were depicted as bare-chested), they were always this humongous, golden testament of the Emperor's pimpness and yes, armoured gloves, boots and leather gloves over armoured gloves are all part of several artworks.
Also, a guardian spear is by no means a practical weapon from a real-world point of view (Which is a moot point anyways, since we are dealing with a fantastical, futuristic setting and not with an actual piece of science fiction à la Star Trek) and could also easily be thrown into the category of ten-foot switchblades, keyswords and gunblades that are part of the anime genre.
The designs were approved because on one hand they ARE part of this 10-years art tradition that you cite (Albeit with different proportions) and on the other hand, someone must've liked them and quite a few customers like them to. Warhammer 40k has always had disproportionate weapons with "asinine" designs (Looking at power fists, chainswords and the like here), no need to compare them to anime.
The banner is not a cluster of purity seals, it's a disproportionate roman standard with several scrolls (Notice the lack of wax). These scrolls are easily removed.
Frankly, the way how you formulate your opinion is absolutely disrespectful to the people that were involved in creating both art and figures for the Custodes and it seems to me that you have not invested much time nor care in analyzing the art that you are referencing. Mind you, I agree that there are quite some changes that should be made and that the custodes should look different, but those changes are not impossible to be made as a conversion, and I do not intend to insult you in any way. I just find this post very disrespectful to GW and to the artists that were involved in this decade long design of custodes.

[Luna707]

If you don't like the official models, there are plenty of third party custodes that look phenomenal. Check out scibor's "SF Roman Legionaries", you may like those a bit better

[Marshal Rohr]

Or learn to sculpt and add all their cloth on yourself.

[jeremy1391]

For us fist players they make a great base for Rogal Dorn ;)

 

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/jeremy137chaulsett/Mobile%20Uploads/EEED1307-943F-4E77-9B06-A28C5B05E9A9_zpsamce2eyg.jpg

[Noserenda]

Disagree with most of what you said but when my hatred of painting gold is overcome by shiny ill also not be using any Sword and board guys, they look baaaaad and the Custodian spear is not just good its also objectively iconic! :)  

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wow how can anyone hate on these models ? I LOL'd.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

They weren't that blinged out in the art? I don't think we're looking at the same art.

 

http://i.imgur.com/VAk3W.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/hFudM.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/4NNMj.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/9G0hc.jpg

[m_r_parker]

Ok, I have to add in that, ahem...

My name is Mike Parker, and I too am not a fan of the Custode models...

I don't think they're bad per-se, they're just not what I had imagined for them. There are a few obvious bugbears that I have, and the swords are definitely on that list, but having spent some time thinking about it since this topic came up, I think it's because I was expecting something less bulky.

Whether this is just a misunderstanding on my part or not, I've always seen the Custodes as a more elegant and less bulky version of the Astartes. To me the Astartes have always been a mass produced warrior designed to survive in the harshest of war conditions and settings. As such they have a mass that is more akin to a large rugby player, a mass of muscle that can absorb anything that's thrown at it and still come back swinging (no offence to any rugby players out there). They're not designed to be artisans of war, the fact that a lot of them are is great, but they've always been a bit of a Thunder Warrior replacement for interstellar battle. Custodes (to me) are less about being a bluntish object for planetary conquests, and more about a rapid response unit tasked with defence rather than offence.

A-D-B's The First Heretic novel does a lot to cement this on my mind, in particular the moment where Argel-Tal first hears the call of Chaos, and the Custode he's fighting alongside assumes he's been hit by a Sniper and goes into a defensive position, twirling (sorry Aaron, best word that comes to mind to describe it) his weapon to defend against any incoming bullets. An Astartes wouldn't do that, they'd find cover and mount a counter offensive once they've located their artacker, they're not defensively minded. A Custode looks to stand firm and use whatever they can to defend and protect an objective, and that doesn't require brute force. A good comparison to this I Game of Thrones, and the Mountain vs the Red Viper of Dorne (no spoilers here, and how weird is it to type Dorne and not Dorn?). The Mountain is an exaggerated version of an Astartes, he's offensively focussed and can take a massive pounding and still be able to take you out. The Red Viper is a Custode in that he's adapting by to the Mountains attacks and looking to keep him at bay whilst looking for an opening, he's even armed with a spear! He can run rings around the Mountain, whilst the Mountain is looking for that decisive killing blow.

So to look at a Custodian model that's more akin to an Astartes in Terminator Armour, with weapon options that appear far too huge to be anything but unwieldy (seriously, that Custode sword reminds me too much of the Mountains great sword, and then there's a boltgun on the hilt too), it jars against my perception of how a Custodian should be.

The Armour confused me a lot too, as it's bulkier than I was expecting. I was always expecting something more refined and streamlined than looking like plates upon plates of armour. In Gav Thorpes Dark Angel Space Marine Battles book (Kallidus Harbour? The name eludes me at the moment) there's a point where the guardsmen fighting alongside the Dark Angels moan amongst each other that they'd be more effective if they had Astartes bolt fund instead of guardsmen lasrifles. The DA Chaplain overheard this and reprimands them,and explaining that more effort goes into a single boltgun shell than a guardsmen lasrifle, so why should ineffectual guardsmen be armed with such resource intensive weapons. The same is in my mind for Astartes vs Custode battle plate. In my mind Astartes Power Armour is a 'one size fits all' design that is being churned out en-masse to supply the Legions, and small changes can be made once issued (like a suit having the trousers lengthened / shortened). Custode Armour is I believe much more tailor made, not just in its fit but also incorporating tech that would be unfeasonable to incorporate into Astartes Battle Plate. Maybe it's a different compound of Ceramite, a different manufacturing technique that makes it stronger, or the inclusion of tech from the Dark Age of Technology that makes it more durable. This is after all the force that uses grav tech on the majority of its vehicles, something that wasn't rolled out to the Legions with a few exception (Speeders and Jetbikes). You can have Armour that appears lightweight and gives the wearer freedom to move and still have the protective qualities of heavier / thicker armour - so seeing the artwork and models for the first time made me think that we were getting Custode Terminators. I then tried to reason it with 'Oh, they must just be wearing proper battle plate because they know they're going into a fight against the Thousand Sons', but that quickly falls apart. They're primarily bodyguard units, they're expected to react at a moments notice to Assassination attempts and the like without having to go change into their armour first. It baffles me a bit.

I'm not saying they're bad models, nor am I critiquing the execution of a design spec that was created, I'm just a little surprised at the end result as it wasn't what I was expecting. Maybe we'll see different versions of the models, designed for a different purpose, that'll be more to my liking. Who knows. It does feel like I'm in the minority here, and the majority of people like the models - so I can't argue that the designers did a great job.

[Leif Bearclaw]

I then tried to reason it with 'Oh, they must just be wearing proper battle plate because they know they're going into a fight against the Wolves'

Either I've spectacularly missed something in the HH fluff, or you've got a pretty extreme type there .

[m_r_parker]

I then tried to reason it with 'Oh, they must just be wearing proper battle plate because they know they're going into a fight against the Wolves'

Either I've spectacularly missed something in the HH fluff, or you've got a pretty extreme type there .

Man, there's always at least one Gremlin that manages to escape and show me up.

The more embarrassing thing is that I spent about an hour looking at that comment going "Huh? What's wrong with that? They were sent to censor the Wolves, have I missed something?"

If that's not a Freudian slip then I don't know what is! Thanks for the catch there, will go ahead and update my post.

Grumbles....

[K3nn3rs]

For us fist players they make a great base for Rogal Dorn ;)

 

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/jeremy137chaulsett/Mobile%20Uploads/EEED1307-943F-4E77-9B06-A28C5B05E9A9_zpsamce2eyg.jpg

I don't want to derail the post but I'm stealing this! Finally a Dorn model within my modelling ability!

 

On topic - I think they look great, with the slight exception to the swords - I can see what you're getting at here.

[1ncarnadine]

I quite like them. 

 

re: The Mountain and The Viper, I feel like the Custodes shouldn't be one or the other. They should be both. Reading Master of Mankind so far has done nothing but reinforce this to me. And looking through the pictures BCK posted, it impresses me how much the pictures really do line up with the models. They did have those bulky shoulder pads even in the art. It's really just the swords that seem a little out of proportion, and I find them alright as is anyway.

[SkimaskMohawk]

From what I've heard, the sisters and Custodes are supposed to be true scale of humans in armour and "power armour marine" respectively 

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I also had the same idea about the custodes being smaller than astartes several years ago and tried converting some out of dark eldar figures.

 

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x5/Kageboshi/CustodesConcept3.jpg

 

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x5/Kageboshi/CustodesConcept2b.jpg

 

My conversion skills weren't as sharp back then, but it gives an idea of where I was heading.

[Marshal Loss]

The only thing I dislike about the Custodes box is the fact that it only comes with one cape. Their capes really affirm their regal aesthetic for me, and if I were inclined to collect them I'd be adding cloaks to everybody. The kit itself is really quite impressive though.

[Gabriel Santar]

As someone else who wasn't a fan of the models when they first got shown off, I will say to try and have a look at them in person if you haven't already. For one reason or another they're models who just don't photograph well, and their proportions look far better IRL (even if they do still look a bit squat).

 

The mono-pose aspect isn't great, especially the absolutely awful sergeant with the Sentinel Blade they use in promotional pictures. Speaking of which the Sentinel Blades as a whole seem silly,e specially considering how much smaller they looked in the original art:

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/custodes-1.jpg
How the Hell can they fire the boltguns on the current swords with any degree of accuracy given how big they are?

But they really aren't that bad. They're certainly not as bad as they first looked. I firmly believe that one of the resin upgrade kits FW mentioned at the last Open Day'll come with all-capes, possibly for a unit of Companions (were Companions a thing Pre-Heresy?), so that should solve that at least.

[Sandlemad]

As someone else who wasn't a fan of the models when they first got shown off, I will say to try and have a look at them in person if you haven't already. For one reason or another they're models who just don't photograph well, and their proportions look far better IRL (even if they do still look a bit squat).

 

The mono-pose aspect isn't great, especially the absolutely awful sergeant with the Sentinel Blade they use in promotional pictures. Speaking of which the Sentinel Blades as a whole seem silly,e specially considering how much smaller they looked in the original art:

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/custodes-1.jpg

How the Hell can they fire the boltguns on the current swords with any degree of accuracy given how big they are?

 

But they really aren't that bad. They're certainly not as bad as they first looked. I firmly believe that one of the resin upgrade kits FW mentioned at the last Open Day'll come with all-capes, possibly for a unit of Companions (were Companions a thing Pre-Heresy?), so that should solve that at least.

 

Agreed about the model-swords vs. the art-swords, and the squatness. I think part of the problem is that most of the most famous depictions of custodes with guardian spears have them standing tall, spear held vertical, or cross-wise, shooting. These models don't have that stance, they're mostly in action poses. They get that squatness from that old plastic marine-style squat or spread-leg pose. The armour (particularly the pauldrons) is definitely thicker than expected, as mr_r_parker points out, but I really do think a good repose resolves a lot of the problem. Ion did an amazing and subtle job getting one back to that classic pose.

 

RE: Companions, I always thought the guardian spear-wielders were companions and that most of the legio custodes was made up of bolter-wielding foot knights, but that was inference and hopefully will be subject to clarification in Inferno.

[Ishagu]

I absolutely love the Custodes models.

On the tabletop they look spectacular.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Emotional status: Triggered

[DeRome90]

For us fist players they make a great base for Rogal Dorn

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/jeremy137chaulsett/Mobile%20Uploads/EEED1307-943F-4E77-9B06-A28C5B05E9A9_zpsamce2eyg.jpg

THIS

LOOKS

JUST

AWESOOOOOOOME

and I'm an IW player

The idea is really great

Regarding the original post:

Beside the damn swords ( ) i don't really get your point. The models are really great IRL. The shields could be a little less "bling" but they are not that bad... and if you take the discount for the whole box into account, i don't mind the awkward swords or the double-eagle shield... real Custodes only use the spear anyway

Btw: I don't even see one purity seal on the whole standard bearer... just scrolls

[Lords of Preyspire]

Jeremy you mad genius.

 

I also wanted to add that I didn't like them before I saw them in person. Still don't love the cricket bats. Once I got a hold of them my mind changed completely.

[AndyNoMore]

For us fist players they make a great base for Rogal Dorn

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp183/jeremy137chaulsett/Mobile%20Uploads/EEED1307-943F-4E77-9B06-A28C5B05E9A9_zpsamce2eyg.jpg

Looking good, do you have a picture of his back as well?

[jeremy1391]

I can take one after work.

[Tyrannicide]

There's 3 big things that stand out (in a bad way) to me with the new Custodes models.

 

1 - Lack of cloaks/robes/skirt

2 - Bad leg posing

3 - Oversized nature of the legs

 

Shockingly, the last thing is what bugs me the most. If you look at all the original art from Collected Visions you will see a much more slim and streamlined version of the armor suits we got in plastic. It's most obvious in the legs, with the shins and boots specifically. They suffer from so much exaggerated gigantism that it kills the entire look for me. There's too much resemblance to AoS and the Stormcast Eternal range that it's hard to ignore the visual parallels. Seriously, if they had just stuck to the established look and went with a slimmer shin and calf with realistically sized boots, I wouldn't even be wasting my time typing this.

 

It's a shame. Custodes are the army that I never thought we would see on the tabletop, yet they sing to my converter's heart more than most factions. But I hate the models.