Master of Mankind (expect spoilers)

[Kastor Krieg]

Perhaps I missed it in other discussion

The silhouettes of Space Marines, the betrayed dead of Isstvan bearing axes and blades and claw; half seen sigils of slaughtered Legions obscured by the ash of their blackened armor.

Flames - check

Returned dead - check

Able to use the webway to be anywhere - check

100% loyal to the Emperor - check

Did we witness an origin tale mixed in MoM?

My favorite part of the story was Pinocchio. Of course the automata would call its creator "father"; but more than explaining something the Land, it served to connect the tale to "us" if that makes sense. I always appreciate when a distant scifi narrative has an anchor, especially one as mundane as a child's tale.

No. The LotD origins are already pretty well established as being the remnants of the Fire Hawks. They've never been associated with "half seen" icons of any of the original legions, nor the ghost of any Primarch, nor anything else associated with Isstvan. They also have no sightings prior to the current millennium - post the disappearance of the Fire Hawks and certainly nothing indicating an existence that stretches back to the Heresy.

Plus, I don't have the book in front of me, but I'm fairly certain that Master of Mankind clearly indicates that these apparitions were formed/created by the Emperor as manifestations of his psychic power, rather than being independent creations that will exist or reappear beyond this point.

What Midwest said. Would of been cool if legion of the dammed shared a time paradox. But sadly that is rumor mongering miss direction only.

" ............................just as planned"

The Legion of the Damned aren't confirmed to be the Fire Hawks, though. That's just *one* of the *given* theories. In the same paragraph that gives that theory it also gives the theory that they are fallen battle brothers that were reborn.

Iron Hands - black and silver

Raven Guard - black and bone

Salamanders - fire

Totally valid LotD genesis and I love it, way more than Fire Hawks. And it doesn't preclude the Fire Hawks one from being true - the souls of those loyal, who were killed / forced to go and die unjustly? A rag-tag legion of Space Marine equivalents of the Ghost Rider? Dayum.

Also doesn't preclude the original LotD from being one or both of the Lost Legions. Not at all.

[bluntblade]

I liked that Ra's will was so strong that even tho possesed by dracyhen he was still in control.

 

Ultimately I think everyone who sees the Emperor see/hear what they want to see/hear hence

 

Land seeing a cold scientist

Ra seeing a trusting father figure

Lorgar seeing a god

Primarchs seeing a father

Astartes seeing a lord of battles

Indeed. My point was that it's more subtle than "Custodes hear X", and Ra's experience shouldn't be taken to represent all Custodians'. In fact, other fluff suggests that Primarchs have varying perceptions of how the Emperor addresses them and appears to them. The Khan recalls Him being awkward and difficult to understand at times, which fits their relationship and is very different to how all his brothers perceive Him.