Master of Mankind (expect spoilers)

[1ncarnadine]

Also, do the Custodes ever refer to one another as "brother"? Is geneseed even a factor in their manufacture?

 

I don't think so. They don't seem to receive many (any?) of the implantations, either. It's mentioned somewhere that they're worked on, maybe ex-sanguinated and remade, but they don't receive all the organs Space Marines do.

 

Further evidence: somewhere Ra is fighting and it says his "heart" (singular) was beating hard, not hearts, so Custodes may only have one.

 

 

Wait, does the Emperor actually say anything?

 

Ra's vision meetings with the Emperor has me questioning that right now. 

 

 

When I speak to you, to others, am I speaking aloud? Does my mouth move and form the shapes of human language? Does a human voice emerge? Or is it merely how mortal minds process my presence and psychic will?

 

That is huge to me. Imagine if his message was "Bring Leman Russ to me"

A human or Marine could hear "Bring my Son, the Lord of War and Winter to me"

A Custude could hear "A Primach approaches"

An Ad Mech would hear "My 6th creation approaches"

 

All are technically correct, and all hear the message formed to be best understood by their perception of things. 

 

Or maybe Im crazy

 

Yeah, this. I think that's what AD-B was going for. Unfortunately, I think a lot of readers are going to take a lot of the scenes with the Emperor at face (especially the one with Arkhan Land; you know which one) and get riled up about it.

[The Red Thirst]

 

See, thats what bugs me.

 

Sure, the Custodes are specially crafted, each unique and powerful. 

So far the Custodes show none of that specialty. If anything, they seem to be pettier than many of the Marines we've been exposed to so far.

 

I expected something more...majestic, kingly, even stoic. They are the elite of the elite, warrior philosophers of the Emperor. And so wrapped in their arrogance and superiority they fail to see the irony of their situation.

 

One thing to keep in mind is the Custodian have only one single purpose, the safety and preservation of the Master of Mankind... full stop... no buts... end off. 

 

I naturally assumed Arrogance and Superiority are a byproduct of their creation, as a side effect of being engineered as the ultimate protection. I see their scorn stem from a belief that anything or anyone bar themselves are not worthy to stand in his presence let alone speak to him.

[Augustus]

I would argue that their 1st and foremost duty is to do the Emperor's bidding. That way it leaves no doubt to their orders like these kind of Shenanigans "I will kill this traitor to protect the Emperor from the truth" 

[Athrawes]

 

Also, do the Custodes ever refer to one another as "brother"? Is geneseed even a factor in their manufacture?

 

I don't think so. They don't seem to receive many (any?) of the implantations, either. It's mentioned somewhere that they're worked on, maybe ex-sanguinated and remade, but they don't receive all the organs Space Marines do.

 

Further evidence: somewhere Ra is fighting and it says his "heart" (singular) was beating hard, not hearts, so Custodes may only have one.

 

 

Wait, does the Emperor actually say anything?

 

Ra's vision meetings with the Emperor has me questioning that right now. 

 

 

When I speak to you, to others, am I speaking aloud? Does my mouth move and form the shapes of human language? Does a human voice emerge? Or is it merely how mortal minds process my presence and psychic will?

 

That is huge to me. Imagine if his message was "Bring Leman Russ to me"

A human or Marine could hear "Bring my Son, the Lord of War and Winter to me"

A Custude could hear "A Primach approaches"

An Ad Mech would hear "My 6th creation approaches"

 

All are technically correct, and all hear the message formed to be best understood by their perception of things. 

 

Or maybe Im crazy

 

Yeah, this. I think that's what AD-B was going for. Unfortunately, I think a lot of readers are going to take a lot of the scenes with the Emperor at face (especially the one with Arkhan Land; you know which one) and get riled up about it.

 

 

Oh I understand that entirely, and AD-B has implied as much through comments on the board. My problem, with that analysis is that in interactions with both Custodes and Land he refers to them by their number. If it was just one or the other, I could definitely see this as merely "hear what they expect" from the emperor, but having it come up from several different point of view character's interactions with the Emperor, to me and others, heavily implies that it is a broader representation of how he might view his Primarchs. 

 

And just to clarify, I am fully aware of most if not all AD-B comments from around the board about this, and the fact that in several very purposeful instances he does name Horus and Magnus, not the 16th and 15th, but by a large margin, from multiple POV characters who are all wildly different, they interpret the Emperor as referring to them often by their numeral which is telling.

 

At the end of the day, we don't have a broad enough group of characters interacting with the Emperor to draw any concrete conclusions on how he views the Primarch.

 

 Having a standard marine, a human and a Primarch would certainly help here. But equally, from that same lack of broader interactions, I don't think peoples interest in How the Emperor views his primarchs (based on his use of numerals) should be dismissed as a misinterpretation, or "taking his conversations at face value."

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Remember, an open mind is like fortress, with its gates unbared and unguarded.

 

Keep it gridmark in the Emperors name.

[Karthak]

 

Im still working my way through the novel...but I very much dislike the Custodes attitudes, justified or not, so far. 

I liked them because they showed how different they are from even Marines, not to mention mere humans. Marines are meta- or superhuman. But they were born and then crudely adjusted. Custodes are explicite posthuman, they were made from scratch, each and every one of them a genetic clockwork masterpiece.

 

If humans are plain linen fabric, Marines are your mass-produced Battle Dress Uniforms and Primarchs your Class A uniforms. Custodes are bespoke tails and black tie suits made out of smoothest and strongest silk.

 

But...Custodes are not made from scratch? Hell, there's even a squad made up of the children of rulers the Emperor deposed.

[A D-B]

 

Also, do the Custodes ever refer to one another as "brother"? Is geneseed even a factor in their manufacture?

 

I don't think so. They don't seem to receive many (any?) of the implantations, either. It's mentioned somewhere that they're worked on, maybe ex-sanguinated and remade, but they don't receive all the organs Space Marines do.

 

Further evidence: somewhere Ra is fighting and it says his "heart" (singular) was beating hard, not hearts, so Custodes may only have one.

 

 

Wait, does the Emperor actually say anything?

 

Ra's vision meetings with the Emperor has me questioning that right now. 

 

 

When I speak to you, to others, am I speaking aloud? Does my mouth move and form the shapes of human language? Does a human voice emerge? Or is it merely how mortal minds process my presence and psychic will?

 

That is huge to me. Imagine if his message was "Bring Leman Russ to me"

A human or Marine could hear "Bring my Son, the Lord of War and Winter to me"

A Custude could hear "A Primach approaches"

An Ad Mech would hear "My 6th creation approaches"

 

All are technically correct, and all hear the message formed to be best understood by their perception of things. 

 

Or maybe Im crazy

 

Yeah, this. I think that's what AD-B was going for. Unfortunately, I think a lot of readers are going to take a lot of the scenes with the Emperor at face (especially the one with Arkhan Land; you know which one) and get riled up about it.

 

 

Okay. This will get long, but that's because I'm insanely busy this month and this is a good topic to link back to in the future. I'll try to make this the clearest and last thing I'll say on the matter, lest I blow several pre-Christmas deadlines like a... thing that blows many things. I don't know. Whatever. 

 

Will readers take it at face value?

 

Maybe! Here's the thing, though. The doubt is there in the novel, in enough detail that almost every reply, review, comment, and email I've seen either gets it, or otherwise understands the reasons for the way the Emperor refers to the primarchs as he does.

 

Secondly, just as crucially, you can't talk down to readers; you've got to trust them to make their way through the lore and accept some people will never like something (or never get it) especially when it comes to something as integral and divisive as the Emperor. The afterword (and reality) acknowledges that it would divide opinion, and it couldn't help but do so. This ties into the classic truth that not every criticism is equally valid; I'm more engaged than most when it comes to interacting with readers, but not everything they say holds equal weight.

 

Thirdly, the only surprise that's come out of this for me is that I've had novels out for a year or more before they received the number of positive comments, reviews, emails, etc. that TMoM has in the span of a single week. And not just from readers, but from other authors and industry peeps, too. I don't think that suggests anything in particular, but it's both humbling and freaking insane. I'd kill for every book release to go like this. 

 

Fourthly, imagine if the Emperor had - gasp! - dared to be emotional regarding the primarchs, consistently through the novel. If you think TMoM is divisive, you've seen nothing yet. You can say or assume that it would've been perfect and people would've preferred that, but the reality is that 40Ktopia would've been riven with vicious comments and endless memes about "If he likes them so much why was he a terrible father?" and "If he likes them so much why didn't he constantly sit them down and explain everything to them?" and "If he liked them so much why was he mean to some of them, it makes no sense" and - the piece de resistance, you'd have countless people calling him "emo", as they do when they rebel against any character that shows emotion.

 

EDIT 2: To illustrate some of these points more concisely than I did, here's a message explaining the Emperor's angle, from a former IP-entrenched soul:

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/7mcemkU.jpg

 

 

 

Ultimately, that's why the "This makes no sense" comments are easy to ignore, because no presentation of the Emperor would make 100% sense at this juncture - it's fairly universally agreed that this is the way to make it make the most sense given all we've seen, but even then, I was careful to layer in aspects that don't make it definitive or impossible to show other facets in the future. But the people insisting "It should have been done like this instead" are to some degree deluding themselves. They see what they like, and what they'd do, and imagine it'd be this vindicated, unifying presence in 40K literature. But that's insane. No book is ever that. I'd never trade my readership or reputation with any other 40K author, and I was still loathed as the person who stole Ant Reynolds' Word Bearers or ruined Si Spurrier's Night Lords or peed on Ben Counter's Grey Knights and whatever else. The alternate takes I've seen suggested (and some of the 'holes' some folks are insisting are there in TMoM) would have been either cut to pieces by the IP department (or other authors at meetings) for making zero sense, or by the fans for being any one of a hundred flaws. But that's the trick, when fans of any setting insist online that X is the solution to Y and that Z was a mistake, they imagine some objective truth that wasn't shown, and how it was a terrible lack. The reality is that their vision, too, would be absolutely crucified - and given a lot of the comments, far, far more crucified than they realise.

 

Because no one knows what they don't know. They don't know how much they don't know. That sounds pithy and silly but it's anything but - no reader is aware of what he or she doesn't know, and every reaction is forged in subjective understandings and perceptions of the setting. It's the perfect representation of "You can't please everyone all the time, but you have to try to please most people most of the time."

 

I tend to silently agree with a lot of criticism of my work, or ignore it because I already thought the same and disliked the book in question for the same reason. I try(!) to only challenge something when it's an outright lie or a huge misunderstanding that most other readers seem to have gotten fine. I mean, I've seen a few complaints that I've ruined the Emperor because he can't get off the Golden Throne while TMoM is taking place, despite that being in the lore since this Webway lark began, and having nothing to do with me. I'd have loved him running around and interacting with everyone and whatever else, but I don't get to make that happen - and maybe I thought it'll be more interesting when we see him again in the future and he is "nice" to the primarchs. Maybe I trust the readership enough for them to see it as an in-setting situation in context, making sense, rather than as some terrifying inconsistency. 

 

And these complaints go from the subjective to the ignorant: "Why is it called Tactical Dreadnought armour? That's wrong. It's Terminator armour." I've seen that before, more than once. Every author gets this stuff so, so much more often than you'd imagine. When someone says "This makes no sense" or "This Xs over 30 years of lore" those are the easiest to ignore fairly and guilt-free since they presume everyone else is an idiot. Everyone else who gets it, or prefers it; no matter what they say and think, these people evidently see some kind of alternate reality for goobers. As if "This makes no sense" is some objective truth and everyone else is deluding themselves, and only an insightful core are telling it like it is.

 

Disagreement with a book isn't always a valid truth, even if someone types it all out very nicely.

 

 

Actually... that's the second thing that's surprised me in all this, though. I used to hate that. After even one week of TMoM, and seeing the positive reaction to TMoM which was faaaaaar in advance of what I'd feared (even as noted in the afterword) it's good for the soul and pretty calming. Let people talk and disagree and dislike it. More power to them. Enough people get it. Enough people love it. A terrifying and humbling number, in fact. Most of the people, most of the time. Can't ask for more than that!

 

The one I'm really looking forward to is whatever happens with the final showdown. If you think TMoM was divisive, wait for that, when people cling to their preferred version / the version they mistakenly believe is the original / the version they think makes the most sense when all others don't.

 

• Some people won't understand why they "suddenly" "changed" it from Ollanius Pius confronting Horus to an Imperial Fist.
• Some people will hate how it was Ollanius Pius there "appealing to the fanboys" instead of the "classic" Imperial Fist character showing up in a nod to the original text.
• Some people will despise it that it wasn't a Custodian there, when that would've made much more sense to them and been the only real answer, and wasn't that in the "original" lore anyway?
• Some people will hate that it's Sanguinius, when it "should" have been Ollanius Pius, the patron saint of the Imperial Guard, and if it's not Pius then why is he even the patron saint of the Guard, and doesn't it ruin it completely now for the "sake of making Sanguinius look cool"?
• Others will hate that it's Ollanius Pius, which makes no sense at all since the Emperor can walk in to the chamber, see Horus standing over the goddamn body of Sanguinius, Horus'  own brother, and be like "I can still turn him back to the light..." but it's only when Horus kills a random human called Pius that the Emperor goes "Oh, actually, maybe he can't be redeemed after all".

...and so on.

 

The Emperor's lore, what little there is, is rife with this stuff. Embracing it and running with it is the key as a contributor to the setting, and trusting a decent chunk (hopefully most!) of the readership to enjoy your version of the ride, too.

 

EDIT: Think I caught all the typos, of which there were an infinity.

 

EDIT 3: THE REVENGE OF EDITING: A link to later in this thread, discussing how all of this relates to Abaddon and Drach'nyen.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

You can't make the whole world smile. I have yet to read MoM, I am now desperate to though. I never really worry about the "Plot" or the context. I do sometimes think "well that didn't fit" but I am more akin to the realization that the universe is a big place and these scenarios need to be created in order to give context and form to their surroundings. 

 

On a side note, has anyone got the audio book  of this? And can anyone relay to me the quality of it? 

[SpecialIssue]

 

The one I'm really looking forward to is whatever happens with the final showdown. If you think TMoM was divisive, wait for that, when people cling to their preferred version / the version they mistakenly believe is the original / the version they think makes the most sense when all others don't.

 

• Some people won't understand why they "suddenly" "changed" it from Ollanius Pius confronting Horus to an Imperial Fist.
• Some people will hate how it was Ollanius Pius there "appealing to the fanboys" instead of the "classic" Imperial Fist character showing up in a nod to the original text.
• Some people will despise it that it wasn't a Custodian there, when that would've made much more sense to them and been the only real answer, and wasn't that in the "original" lore anyway?
• Some people will hate that it's Sanguinius, when it "should" have been Ollanius Pius, the patron saint of the Imperial Guard, and if it's not Pius then why is he even the patron saint of the Guard, and doesn't it ruin it completely now for the "sake of making Sanguinius look cool"? Others will hate that it's Ollanius Pius, which makes no sense at all since the Emperor can walk in to the chamber, see Horus standing over the goddamn body of Sanguinius, Horus'  own brother, and be like "I can still turn him back to the light..." but it's only when Horus kills a random human called Pius that the Emperor goes "Oh, actually, maybe he can't be redeemed after all".

...and so on.

 

The Emperor's lore, what little there is, is rife with this stuff. Embracing it and running with it is the key as a contributor to the setting, and trusting a decent chunk (hopefully most!) of the readership to enjoy your version of the ride, too.

 

 

See, this is what I want from the fluff. When the HH was a myth told through the mists of time, its details changed numerous times throughout the editions, the lore actually reflected the in-universe view of those events. It was subjective, it allowed all those interpretations to actually have a grain of truth to them while condoning none of them. Its very ambiguity contributed to the mythos and epic nature of 40k. It ensured the fluff was a constant fount-head of potential discussion, deepening the looking glass and possibilities of 40k. 

 

Your interpretation of the Big E (psychic subjectivity) and Custodes (closer companions/confidants to the Emperor than even the Primarchs in some ways) matches closely with my own personal vision. But it won't for everyone, and tbh I feel that's a weakness that has now been added to this universe through the very objective telling of the HH. That is the root point of my contention with the whole fleshing out of such 40k pillars like the HH and Big E. We are locking it all down under a restrictive 'this was how it was', changing a creation myth of legends and gods from 10,000 years ago into mundane historical knowledge.

[Karthak]

Thirdly, the only surprise that's come out of this for me is that I've had novels out for a year or more before they received the number of positive comments, reviews, emails, etc. that TMoM has in the span of a single week. And not just from readers, but from other authors and industry peeps, too. I don't think that suggests anything in particular, but it's both humbling and freaking insane. I'd kill for every book release to go like this.

On that note, you bastard...(he said in a whimsical, non-aggressive tone) Where the hell did you learn to become that good at prose?!

I've already got the world-building of Ed Greenwood and the humour of Terry Pratchett on my "I hope I'll be a quarter as good as them some day" list, (on the second draft of my first book and first draft of my second book currently) but now I'll have to add the prose of Aaron Dembski-Bowden to the list, to gaze upon and feel inadequate by comparison.

[Kastor Krieg]

 

 

Im still working my way through the novel...but I very much dislike the Custodes attitudes, justified or not, so far. 

I liked them because they showed how different they are from even Marines, not to mention mere humans. Marines are meta- or superhuman. But they were born and then crudely adjusted. Custodes are explicite posthuman, they were made from scratch, each and every one of them a genetic clockwork masterpiece.

 

If humans are plain linen fabric, Marines are your mass-produced Battle Dress Uniforms and Primarchs your Class A uniforms. Custodes are bespoke tails and black tie suits made out of smoothest and strongest silk.

 

But...Custodes are not made from scratch? Hell, there's even a squad made up of the children of rulers the Emperor deposed.

I meant it more as in "there isn't the original human left in them at all", they are made anew, not an upgraded version of basic human with "artificial organs and crude surgery".

[DuskRaider]

Honestly, I haven't read the book yet (not sure when I'll get around to it), but after reading all the crying and moaning in the other thread I already like it.

 

That being said, I'm not sure how one even goes about writing the inner thoughts and emotions of the physical gestalt of hundreds of shaman in the first place. I always envisioned the Emperor more as a force of nature; a subject that doesn't need to be explained... much like the Force or Tom Arnold.

[Flint13]

Mr. D-B, I have to be honest with you.

 

When I first heard you were taking on Master of Mankind, I was super excited because I love all the small personal details you add to your characters that make them seem so much more than just toy soldiers banging into each other dramatically.

 

But when I sat down this morning with MoM (haha, do you get a lot of "the emperor is the best mom" jokes?) loaded up on my iPod and heard Mr. Keeble's dulcet tones drift into my ear holes, I did a mental backflip. The amount of personality he brought into his reading of Talon of Horus was unreal. I can just see Iskandar's eyes roll when he mumbles "pfft, 'magic,' such a stupid, outdated term" or the snarl on Lheorvine's face every time he barks "don't call me Firefist."

 

Anywho, I am super glad to see that he got to do the read for MoM as well. I really hope to hear the next D-B novel holds to the same.

 

Now if I can just figure out which voice artist gave Khârn that amazing accent in the audio dramas and shake his hand...

[Marshal Rohr]

Antonio Kharnderas?

[The_son_of_Dorn]

I've said it once I shall say it again, Brain Blessed need's to narrate these audio books. I would gladly pay double for that experience! 

[Wayniac]

I have to say, I was talking about this with someone and I did not at first like the way it presents the Emperor, but I'm used to the modern 40k "propaganda", so the more I think of it the more I could really see this as being the actual truth, twisted and perverted over 10,000 years to what we were told in lore for 30 years of the game's writing.

 

I'm still not sure how to feel about it though.  It's like, a total 180 from everything else, and it's evidently canon and "how things always were" despite it going against every bit of fluff written previously.  Incidentally this is part of why I was never fond of GW actually making the Heresy more in-depth; I liked when it was just myth and legend, fragments put together that nobody was ever 100% sure was the real thing, but didn't dare question (not to dig too deep into forbidden areas but very much like modern religion and the events in The Bible).  To have it laid bare like this is... well it's a shock to the system to say the least.

[Icarus1138]

In the book

Would like to know something about his youth, his "human side" if he has one. Thanks for the old fluff nontheless!

We do get to see a scene of his childhood. It's a scene he's presenting to someone else however, so the possibility remains that he edited or created it himself. He does outright state the reason he's sharing it at all is to persuade the viewer of something, so it could be anywhere from 0-100% accurate. It does take place in Anatolia, which I thought was cool.

[b1soul]

So...Custodes are to SM as SM are to Guardsmen?

 

What y'all think?

 

 

 

Zephon’s pale eyes narrowed, his concentration absolute, taking in the ballet of violence unfolding before him. He had seen the warriors of the Ten Thousand fight before, albeit only in grainy pict footage. He had heard the countless unpoetic comparisons describing their uniqueness as the perfect exemplar of a process that became diluted and rushed to mass-produce the Legiones Astartes. Yet he had never seen them in battle against Space Marines. This warrior reaved through them – reaved through Zephon’s cousins from the rebellious Legions – cutting them down, butchering them the way Zephon himself had massacred his way across human and alien battlefields.

 

How easy, all of a sudden, to see how Constantin Valdor, the Captain-General of the Custodian Guard, was considered an equal of the primarchs themselves in matters of blade-work, when any Custodian could be as skilled as this.

 

 

 

The context is that

 

it's from Zeph's limited perspective and the Custodian in action is Ra, an elite tribune perhaps not far below Valdor himself...but still impressive no?

 

[Loesh]

 

and - the piece de resistance, you'd have countless people calling him "emo", as they do when they rebel against any character that shows emotion.

 

I won't go into detail, yet anyway, about my thoughts on the rest of the post as it'd take a small eon. But this? This right here? this is why I  absolutely hate discussing the Primarch's and their lore outside a very small and selective group of 40k Warhammer lore junkies.

[Icarus1138]

Sisters of Battle had acts of faith in 3rd edition and Templars used to get buffs from their vows. Those were the only two instances I can remember.

Yeah, but its still all Warp stuff, its still drawing from the same place that is made of Chaos.

I found the very forced inclusion of Christianity to be borderline offensive and not at all like Sisters/BT stuff, obviously it draws on the same tropes, but...yeah Abnett cemented himself even lower on my list after that book

Obviously this is purely a matter of personal taste, but I didn't find it all that forced. Unlike 40k, the Heresy books have had lots of references to historical culture. Shakespeare, Egyptian mythology, Hans Christian Anderson, and other random things show up. Often misunderstood (didn't some character think Shakespeare had only written a couple plays?) but still present. It's not really strange that Christianity would get some mentions too, or that of all the perpetuals that date from our time or earlier, one would be religious.

Plus, as you said, Christianity (especially Roman Catholicism) provides *tons* of themes and inspiration to 30/40k.

I really appreciated the inclusion, though some day if GW/BL wants to include just a bit more non-western stuff I'd appreciate that as well. If it makes sense for at least one perpetual to be a Christian, it makes extra sense that at least one be Chinese for example.

[simison]

 

I really appreciated the inclusion, though some day if GW/BL wants to include just a bit more non-western stuff I'd appreciate that as well. If it makes sense for at least one perpetual to be a Christian, it makes extra sense that at least one be Chinese for example.

 

 

It would especially be apropros given that there are immortals in Chinese folklore. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Non-western characters runs the risk of becoming stereotypes when written by non-western authors. Like Kung-Fu Manchu McAsianface in any portrayal of White Scars not by Chris Wraight or Saladin Al-Arabee McArab in any Thousand Sons portrayal outside of Khayon and Ahriman. It's most egregious in the audiobooks when apparently Chogoran and Tizcan have devolved to the point of accents in a 70's pulp action novel. ADB managed to make the Colchisians middle eastern without falling into the Lawrence of Arabia orientalism. Again in MoM he can suitably blend the futurism theory of everybody being a minority in the future without it coming across as overly heavy handed and he adds nice touches to separate them from current cultural touches like the snake tattoos on that one custodes face

[Joeyray]

After 72 hours I'm feeling like a Downfall Hitler rant would be kind of cool coming from the Emperor talking about how he should've smothered the Primarchs in their cradles like Hitler talked about liquidating the General Officers. That movie is funny for meme's but damn if it isn't terrifying originally.

"My liege the Iron Warriors continue to dismantle the walls, there are reports that the Dies Irea continues to advance without halting...."

 

"Not to worry the II and XI will counterattack and drive these traitors back."

 

"My lord....."

 

"The II and XI haven't existed in decades..."

 

"Everyone out the throne room except Dorn, Valdor and Malcador......."

[God-Potato of Mankind]

I am just shocked as to what comes next.

 

I mean...why even fight. The Emperor doesnt know what to do. Horus, and Chaos, has won.

 

I .. feel so lost.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

 

After 72 hours I'm feeling like a Downfall Hitler rant would be kind of cool coming from the Emperor talking about how he should've smothered the Primarchs in their cradles like Hitler talked about liquidating the General Officers. That movie is funny for meme's but damn if it isn't terrifying originally.

"My liege the Iron Warriors continue to dismantle the walls, there are reports that the Dies Irea continues to advance without halting...."

"Not to worry the II and XI will counterattack and drive these traitors back."

"My lord....."

"The II and XI haven't existed in decades..."

"Everyone out the throne room except Dorn, Valdor and Malcador......."

This real?