Dark Serpentine Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Hey guys, I've been struggling to finalise a 3000pts list for a tournament coming up in a couple of months, just wondered if anyone can suggest any improvements or tips to get a list that works well together. The list is mainly built around models that i already have, but am happy to pick up some different units if needed! Rite of War: Primarch's Chosen (figured to use this Rite to limit potential lost VP's) HQ - Alpharius (Warlord) - Armillus Dynat Troops - 8 Vet Space Marines (6 combi's, nucio, vexilla) Serg w. AA, PF & Power Dagger - Rhino w. hunter killer, pintle MM, dozer B. - 8 Vet Space Marines (6 combi's, nucio, vexilla) Serg w. AA, PF & Power Dagger - Rhino w. hunter killer, pintle MM, dozer B. - 8 Vet Space Marines (6 combi's, nucio, vexilla) Serg w. AA, PF & Power Dagger - Rhino w. hunter killer, pintle MM, dozer B. Ellites - 3 x Quad Launchers w. Shatter Shells -Contemptor Mortis w. 2 x Kheres assault cannons Fast Attack - Primaris Lightning fIghter w. 3x2 Kraken Pens, battle servitor control, ground tracking auguries Heavy - Leviathan Dread w. Cyclonic melta lance, siege claw, H flamers, ceramite, phosphex disharger. Dread Drop Pod - 3 x Sky slayers w. MM - 3 x Sky slayers w. MM List comes in at 2943pts Vets mostly armed with combi-plas, will choose their role on the enemy, Marksmen or Machine killers to work with Dynats rule. Mutable Tactics, again depending on the enemy and getting best use out of Vets Dynat in one Rhino Alph in another, using One as Many, most likely unveiling in Turn 2, as to benefit more from his rules. Had hoped to run Alpharius unveiled from turn one to squeeze as much goodness out of his preferred enemy as poss, trickier to do than i thought though. Contemptor to support quad mortars from assaulting units Lightning...for the heavies obvs Sky slayers to support Leviathan (meaning mostly Infiltrate mutable tactics will be used) Little concerned about the lack of scoring units at 3000pts though? Thanks for the read, comments and advice welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Does the Levi have a DDP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Yup! Forgot to add that in, the DDP should be in the list and is included in the points total I mentioned. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em_en_oh_pee Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Do the P-L really need triple Kraken? One load, maybe two. Three? Naw. Also, ~25 dudes at 3k is not enough. Split the Quad Mortars, if you can, so you can target more stuff. I would scrap some stuff to find room for Apothecaries, given your squads are pretty small, the boost in durability would help. Though honestly, I just recommend getting more dudes overall. You can scrap the Nuncio, too - don't think those will help you at all. Wouldn't bother with the Ground Tracking either on the P-L. Rhinos are not particularly durable, btw. Wouldn't hurt to have a blocker - like a Spartan - that they can ride behind until they are close enough to make a difference. Also, not going Coils? Seems like Alphas really benefit in that RoW more than any other. Just my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Like it has been said, there's too few models for a 3.000 pts. list. You'll be crushed in no time by the right opponent. Also, three scoring units in 3.000 pts. ? Really ? Your Vet Tac squads are fine, if seriously expensive. I'd give them more focus or slim and trim them. Alpharius and Dynat ? I feel like Dynat is a waste of points in your current list configuration. Pick either him, or the Big A. In regards to Alpharius ... what he does best is to buff your infantry units ... which you have precious little in your list. I'd settle on one of them and then adjust the list accordingly. Preferably Alpharius. Get rid of Dynat. Maybe get a cheap HQ so you can select Alpharius as your LoW and run CotH as your RoW. If you stick with Dynat run either Orbital Assault or PotL and adjust accordingly. 2x2 Kraken Missiles is absolutely enough. It's a one-trick pony. But most of all ... get more dudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhar'Neth Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 And remember that in Primarch Chosen ROW only the COMPULSORY Veterans/Terminators are Troops (not that it matters in that list because you have free Elites slots, but still) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Cheers for the advice guys, was a bit concerned about the lack of scoring units and thats just confirmed it! Will have a play with the list and see what can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xera32 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Agree with most of what is posted above except about the lightning, stick with 3x2 Krakens.You need at least 1 scoring per 750 points, preferably more like 1 per 5-600. Your model count is very low, but not very tough, or fast. Both Alpharius and Dynat do not help this list. Switch to Skorr and take chosen's duty RoW, should free up 500 points to take some more vets/terminators and grab some ranged anti-infantry (medusae, plasma preds are good options).Coming back to the lightning. Going for 4 krakens means you will make 1 shot, and the lightning becomes a useless platform. With 6 you can fire the lascannon and 3 krakens twice. With this loadout you should be able to take down 2 heavy tanks rather than overkill 1. You will also find you need ~6-8 krakens to kill a legion SHV, with 4 you will halve its HP, and then possibly struggle to kill it making the entire endeavour pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 In my experience the Kraken will ... just die ... if it has any Kraken Missiles remaining after the initial turn 1 barrage. No opponent will allow the thing to go at it for another turn if is still has payload left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 Thanks Xera, Im very new to 30k so still getting my head around things, although my rationale was that Dynat would boost the Levi's melta lance in enemy deployment, as well as the Sky Slayers (and any vets that made into en.deploy if i gave them machine killers). He would also boost the BS skill of a vet unit with the combi plas, mixing with Alphs preffered enemy getting rid of 1's etc. Alph would boost the 6 units i have with Legion Astartes rule, as well as utilising his cognis with another combi plas vet unit. I appreciate now that perhaps the list is not making best use of his buffs with so few units/body count though. Good to know about the ratio of scoring units to points, makes sense. Had always assumed Skorr was more suited to smaller games but can see it would still work at this level. Will have a rethink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Are combi-weapons on all the vets really needed? You could save yourself a few points and get some extra bodies. If you want to really make use of the preferred enemy you could invest in a plasma support squad, which will really help with TEQs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 So after a little tinkering, i've rewritten the list and gone with Coils ROW. HQ - Forge Lord Consul - AA, Power fist, Rad grenades, Boarding shield, Cyber-fam, power daggerTroops- 10 Tac Space Marines (Vexilla) Serg w. AA, Combi Weapon, Melta bombs, Power Dagger - Rhino w. hunter killer, pintle MM, dozer B. - 10 Tac Space Marines (Vexilla) Serg w. AA, Combi Weapon, Melta bombs, Power Dagger - Rhino w. hunter killer, pintle MM, dozer B. - 10 Tac Space Marines (Vexilla) Serg w. AA, Melta bombs - Rhino Ellites- 2 x Quad Launchers w. Shatter Shells - 1 x Apothecary - 6 Invictarus Suzerains. Land Raider Phobos (armoured C,) - 8 Vet Tac Marines, 5 combi plas, Serg w. AA, PF, dagger - Rhino, dozer blade, pintle MMFast Attack- Primaris Lightning fIghter w. 3x2 Kraken Pens, battle servitor control, ground tracking auguriesHeavy- Leviathan Dread w. Cyclonic melta lance, siege claw, H flamers, ceramite, phosphex disharger. Dread Drop Pod- 3 x Sky slayers w. Plas Cannons LOW - Alpharius List comes in at 2996pts Generally taking Infiltrate, however i have option of taking Tank Hunter if needed against the right opponent. I can trim down the fancy Rhinos in the tac squads to squeeze in another Quad launcher, and may even get rid of one of the Rhinos completely if i decide to ditch Tank Hunter for good. Figured the rhinos could help screen the phobos if critical. Slayers are more of a back line plas cannon unit that can contest objectives late on if needed, went with Plas cannons to help with TEQ and higher toughness armies. Vets probably taking combi plas, i see this as more versatile, if i do take tank hunter, with machine killers they can pose a good threat against some 13 av tanks etc. One thing im not sure of, does Move through cover/cameleoline confer to dedicated transport?? Its pushing it a bit i know but would be pretty handy for the phobos. Decided Forge Lord over a Chaplain as his buff to the Suzies str. 4 attacks is pretty good. They have WS5 and preferred enemy so should hopefully do ok on rolls to hit, its their strength that could let them down in a fight, so the RADs are pretty....ra..cool. Comments and suggestions welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'd consider dropping one suzeraine to allow the FL to be upgraded to Tartaros armour and a chain fist - he'd add some much needed punch to the unit if you come across heavy tanks/ Levi's,knights, etc, especially if you split Alpharius away from the squad. I'd also drop the hunter killer misfiled from the 2 rhinos to but dozer blades on the Phobos and third tac rhino. I'd also exchange the tac squads sgts combi weapons for power fists to go with the power daggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 The power dagger doesn't do much on the forge lord as he has a boarding shield he doesn't get a bonus attack for two weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yea I wasn't sure if the dagger helped or not with the shield, bit ambitious to think it did. Thanks though. Will take the above comments into account and tweak the list again. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 You don't want to take Infiltrate there actually, because then Alpharius has to murder one of your suzerain to ride along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yea thats a good point, I forgot to mention that Alpharius would be unveiled from the start, riding in the Phobos conferring scout to it. (Think thats legal..) Was thinking about having him hide in one of the Tac rhinos, but then realised he wouldnt fit..so i can only infiltrate him inside a transport if he's with the Vets...but then its no surprise really.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 No, scout is conferred only to dedicated transports. You can always Infiltrate him with Suzerain too (just drop a pair of krakens for an extra Suzerain for him to replace). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ah rubbish, i was hoping that since he joined the Suzies, he then conferred them Scout...and hence their dedicated transport...seems kinda wrong wasting a Suzerain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'd float that on the rules forum. I don't have my books handy to check that daisy chain of interactions. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 That veteran squad looks like a waste of poiints imo. If you run Tank Hunter MT then you're using machine killers I assume? I'd just take a support squad totting plasmas, they're still scoring and with Alpharius making you re-roll all those annoying 1s they're a safe bet. One thing to keep in mind too, Seekers (and to a certain extent with big A, Headhunters) are a very solid choice. Special ammo makes them versatile and they're scoring to boot. Worth a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Thanks Balthamal, yea that was the general idea. Tank hunters with machine killers, or Sniper and infiltrate, depending on the enemy. Will take a look at swapping them out with TSS unit/seekers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 Another take on the army i'm considering. PotL ROW. Infiltrate MB. HQ - Armillus Dynat Troops- 10 Vet Space Marines (2 melta guns, melta bombs, nuncio, vexilla) Serg w. AA, PF & Power Dagger - Rhino w. pintle MM, dozer B. - 10 Vet Space Marines (2 melta guns, melta bombs, nuncio, vexilla) Serg w. AA, PF & Power Dagger - Rhino w. pintle MM, dozer B. - 7 Terminators (6 combi weapons, 2 PF, 1 Chain fist) Serg w. Chain fist, power dagger, combi-weapon and grenade hareness Ellites- 3 x Quad Launchers w. Shatter Shells - 1 x Apothecary (AA, Augury Scanner) Fast Attack- Primaris Lightning fIghter w. 2x2 Kraken Pens, battle servitor control, ground tracking auguries - 6 Seekers (6 combi plas) strike leader w. PF, PD, melta bombs. Proteus w. dozer blade, AC, pintle combi plas, explorator augury web. Heavy- Leviathan Dread w. Cyclonic melta lance, siege claw, H flamers, ceramite, phosphex disharger. Dread Drop Pod- 3 x Sky slayers w. Plas Cannons - 3 x Sky slayers w. MM List comes in at 2999 Dynat rides with the seekers and apoth, infiltrating where necessary. Plas sky slayers stay back field MM Sky slayers support Levi up in enemy deployment Levi..kinda ovbious Termies deep strike where needed, using augury web and nuncios for improved accuracy and timing (even with dynats re-roll) Vets armed most likely with combi-melta and either infiltrating close into enemy lines or outflanking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Really nice list, I like it a lot. Though I'd ditch the Legion Terminators for Lernaeans, WS 5 and stubborn for 3pts. per model is a steal. Though that's only a matter of personal preference of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3nn3rs Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Wouldn't deep striking legion terminators be better as they can take Combi weapons and therefore have a chance of making an immediate impact? I think Lernaeans are better in an assault transport (Spartan or Dreadclaw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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