InquisitorValentyne Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I believe this codex is severely underestimated. Bs10 psychic hunting vehicles for one, and an incredible slew of fantastic new ways to include bonuses from multiple factions. A lot of people argued the faq for valkyries, but forgot to check the rules first. A single mystic in a squad of acolytes in a valkyrie is incredible! Ignoring the chance for dangerous terrain from grav chutes! That's phenomenal, and a good resurrection for valkyries since their fall out of favor. Not to mention the corvus as an inquisitor delivery system for my brain mines and psychotroke grenades as well as the grimoire of true names. My singular complaint is that I still have to look out sir for my invuln, and can't automatically pass it. Another complaint is the lack of storm shields for the death watch. Aside from that, this codex is incredible in it's complexity and updated rules for what was once the daemon hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4618182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorValentyne Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 *updated! Legion of the Damned and Inq detachment.* Jost got this. My 2 cents...mixed feelings. I am an Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum and Skitarii+Cult Mechanicus player, so I was pretty excited. I will focus on what I am most interested about...i.e. not Marines. I like to build good armies but I am not a fanatic combo-player. I will list each entry in its order. First the detachment/formation, then the units. When listing the compulsory (and optional) composition of each detachment/formation, keep in mind that they can be selected exclusively from those belonging to their entry, and pretty much all of these have a specific faction on their own. Let me know your thoughts if you wish - perhaps I missed something here.***Overview*** This is basically a collection of 9 micro- to mini-codexes. All offer a specific detachment, and some a formation, that allows players to include them in any Imperial-themed army. PRO: handy 1-book collection. A few interesting entries. CONS: some entries look lame. Will create confusion: apparently this codex does not replace older codexes/entries, i.e. we now have different versions of the same stuff around.***Detachments******1. Cult Mechanicus***Detachment: Enginseer congregation: 1 HQ (optional: 1 Elite)Benefits: all units have the Canticles of the Omnissiah (CotO) rule (copy/paste from Cult Mechanicus codex).Faction: Cult MechanicusUnits:HQ: 1 Tech-priest Enginseer Copy/paste from the AM codex, with a couple of useless and overpriced upgrades (5++ and digital weapons).Elite: 1 servitor Copy/paste from the AM codex. Can add up to 4 servitors.In short: since each unit has CotO, this seems a cheap way to add 1/2 units to increase the army-wide effect of each Canticle, if you are taking this detachment in a CultMech army. unfortunately, if you do the above the Enginseer ability 'awaken the machine' becomes useless because it can be used only on AM vehicles. The repair ability can be used on any friendly vehicle though. still, you get a relatively cheap character that can add a power axe/fist and buy melta bombs to a CMec squad. if you take this in an AM army, you get 1-2 tiny tiny units that can activate the lowest-level CotO bonus. Still better than nothing, but certainly not exciting. RaW, you cannot use this version of the Enginseer in other formations. Best use: I believe this can only be somewhat useful as an addition to a CultMech army, to cheaply increase the number of units with the CotO rule (50 pts for +2, although they won't last for long).Verdict: meh.***2. Aeronautica Imperialis***Detachment: Imperial navy section: 1 Fast Attack (optional: 1 HQ)Benefits: reroll failed reserve rolls for units from this detachmentFaction: Aeronautica ImperialisUnits:HQ: 1 Officer of the FleetCopy/paste from the AM codex, basically the usual guy without the CCS. Has received the usual pair of useless and overpriced wargear options.Fast attack: 1 Valkyrie Copy/paste from the AM codex, with updated DftS options. Can add up to 3 extra Valks.In short: An easy way to include an underperforming flyier/transport to your army, and possibly the Officer little rules about reserves. Except that with Ld 7 the Officer is not going to be very successful with his rules. And, especially, except that being your Valkyries part of the 'Aeronautica imperialis' faction, the ONLY unit that can start the game embarked on them is the lone Officer. Read again the above and see how stupid this detachment is. An excellent missed chance to bring back the Vendetta, in my opinion. Best use: Hah. None, I guess.Verdict: dumb.***3. Adeptus Astra Telepathica***Detachment: Psykana division: 1 HQ (optional: 1-3 Elite)Benefits: the Primaris psyker or Astropath harness on 3+ while within 12" of the Wyrdwanes.Faction: Astra TelepathicaUnits:HQ: 1 Primaris psykerCopy/paste from the AM codex, with an extra useless/overpriced wargear upgrade. He is a character, not independent.HQ: 1 Astropath Copy/paste from the AM codex, with a couple of extra useless/overpriced wargear upgrades, AND importantly the ability to take level 2 at the usual price. Basically the guy from the CCS without the squad (now a normal character), and with more options. Also, he gets a new little special rule: you successfully cast a power in your turn, you get a reroll on your reserves (i.e. ALL, not only this detachment) on the next turn.Elite: 1 Unit Wyrdwane Psykers Copy/paste from the AM codex (I think - I never use them).In short: Less powerful than the formation with the same name (and why in hell did they give it the same name?!), if you look at number of warp dice/harness bonus. As far as I can tell, taking this detachment multiple times with a single Astropath is the cheapest way around to add warp charges. Lvl 2 Astropath for 50pts as a lone character seems like a nice new option. Yet, the Astropath is still 1 W and Ld 7 only, so the first PotW will probably be his last as well. Since the Astropath base points cost is unchanged and his new special rule is not too bad, he is still better than his AM equivalent, at least. A missed chance to reduce the point cost of these rather weak psykers. Best use: spamming warp charges, in combination with some other detachment/formation.Verdict: I won't use these. But I guess this may be an *almost* OK option.***4. Adepta Sororitas***Detachment: Ministorum delegation: 1 HQ (optional: 1 Elite)Benefits: all units have Shield of faith (6++ and Adamantium will)Faction: Adepta SororitasFormation: Vestal Task force: the way to build a nuns army. Sorry, not interested.Units:Adepta Sororitas stuff: since I hate nuns, I will skip this part. Basically, a copy/paste of all the usual units from the nuns codex, without St. Celestine (gone). I will instead focus on:HQ: 1 Ministorum priest Copy/paste from the AM codex, BUT as part of the detachment he now gets Adamantium will (great) and can take some more wargear, including a pretty useless weapon relic and another one that allows him to automatically pass Ld test for his war hymns (good, but not cheap).Elite: Arco-flagellants Copy/paste unit from the old Inquisition codex. 3-10 relatively cheap, slow, and expendable melee models.Elite: Crusaders Copy/paste unit from the old Inquisition codex. 2-10 relatively cheap, slow, 3++ AP 3 weak guys.Elite: Death cult assassins Copy/paste unit from the old Inquisition codex. 2-10 relatively cheap, slow, marine-killing gals.In short: your choice if you want to field a nuns army. As said, Celestine is gone. Jacobus is still there. the Ministorum delegation is pretty cool: e.g. you can now add a single priest to an AM army, and get also Adamantium will for his same old price and you can buy auto-success on all of his war hymns, which can be great. An extra formation called Ecclesiarchy battle conclave lets you put 1 priest (or Jacobus) and 3-10 units in any combination from the arco-flagellants, crusaders, or dc assassins, into one single super-unit. This is the kind of unit that results in a headache for me so I will never do it, but I guess some may find it cool. Best use: add a single improved priest to your AM army, for example, at the same old price.Verdict: the detachment is decent. The nuns, I don't care.***5. Deathwatch***Detachment: Deathwatch kill team: 1 TroopsBenefits: Aquila doctrineFaction: DeathwatchUnits:Troops: VeteransCopy/paste from the Deatwatch codex, I believe. A ton of pricey and sometimes powerful wargear and options. May also be embarked on a Corvus blackstar.In short: A mini-version of a Deathwatch formation. Sorry, not much interested. Best use: add the smallest possible Deathwatch formation to your army, I guess?Verdict: it's ok, I guess. Not really sure we needed it.***6. Grey knights***Detachment: Daemonhunter strike force: 1 Troops, 1 FA (optional: 1 HS)Benefits: Rites of teleportationFaction: Grey knightsUnits:Troops: Terminator squadCopy/paste from the GK codex, I believe. May also be embarked on any of the 3 Land Raider variants.FA: Interceptor squad Copy/paste from the GK codex, I believe.HS: Nemesis DK Copy/paste from the GK codex, I believe.In short: A mini-version of a Grey Knight formation. Sorry, not much interested. Best use: add the smallest possible Grey Knight formation to your army, I guess?Verdict: it's ok, I guess. Not really sure we needed it.***7. Legion of the Damned***Detachment: Spectral host: 1 Elites (optional: 1-3 Elites)Benefits: beings in reserve, you can automatically choose to pass or fail and roll to bring them in via deep strike.Faction: Legion of the Damned.Units:Elite: 1 Damned legionnairesCopy/paste from the old LotD unit, I believe. But with some bonus.In short: A LotD formation, I guess they have always been similar. No reserve roll and reroll scatters for a deep-striking unit that ignores covers with *all* of its ranged weapons. Expensive, but given the above and the option to tale 2 meltas even in a 5-man squad makes them a pretty brutal kamikaze tank-busting unit. Sorry, not much interested. Best use: I'd say a 5-men squad with 2 meltas and possibly a plasma pistol or powerfist. Verdict: Not really sure we needed it. Yet, potentially quite brutal and, always, expensive.***8. Officio assassinorum***Detachment: Assassinorum operative: 1 EliteBenefits: operation assassinateFaction: Officio assassinorumUnits:Elite: 1 AssassinCopy/paste from the WD usual 4 assassins, possibly with very minor rewording. Also included is the formation with all 4 assassins.In short: Same stuff seen on WD, I guess.Best use: same as before.Verdict: ok. Certainly they are (were) not almighty, but can be nice.***9. Inquisition***Detachment: Inquisitorial representative: 1 HQ (optional: 1-3 Elites)Benefits: 1 inquisitor (can be unique) from this detachment can generate and use a warlord trait even if he is not your warlord.Faction: InquisitionUnits:HQ: 1 InquisitorAlmost a copy/paste from the old Inquisition codex. You still get Coteaz (still nasty) and Karamazov (still sucks), and the 3 generic basic Inquisitors from the Malleus, Hereticus, and Xenos, basically unchanged. Some very minor wargear price adjustments - top points: now the power armour upgrade costs only 3 pts (sweet), and condemnor boltgun might actually be useful since it now requires just a scored hit against the psyker's unit, not a wound. Elite: Acolytes The old cheap basic retinue guys that you used to tool up in many different ways. Still there, still in a unit of 3-12 dudes.Elite: Daemonhost As far as I remember, he is unchanged. 1-man unit. Still cheap, still sucks.Elite: Jokaero As far as I remember, he is unchanged. 1-man unit. Still a weird, potentially powerful gamble.HS: Chimera Transport option for the various units.Formation: Inquisitorial henchmen warband The way to build up the old uber-mixed unit. You take 1 (any) Inquisitor, 1 Acolyte unit, and stuff from other entries: 0-1 Ministorum priests, 0-1 crusaders, 0-6 daemonhosts, 0-1 arco-flagellants, 0-1 dc assassins, 0-1 tech priest, 0-6 Jokaero, 0-1 astropath. Plus, depending on the ordo of the inquisitor, either 1 unit of GK terminators, AS battle sisters, or Deatwatch vets. Surely there is some crazy combo potential here, but I don't even want to think about it. They even have the option to take a discounted Chimera that can become pretty uber with the right upgrades, given its cost.In short: Not many changes from the 6th ed. Inquisition codex. Except for some minor points and wargear adjustments. AND the complete loss of servo-skulls (gone altogether). Some people will cry. I'm ok with it, I was never so much of a fan. Also note: the 3 (unchanged) relics are still there, but now each is specific to 1 and only 1 ordo. Generic Inquisitors are still very cost-effective, even as lvl 1 Psykers. Actually, they are now even more powerful: for each detachment you get, you roll for 1 extra free warlord trait (either from the basic tables or from the unchanged 3 inquisitorial tables)! This is sweet indeed. I guess the above is enough to take a couple basic Inquisitors in most armies. Morale-boosting and warlord bonanza for a mere 25 pts is enough already - just be careful to resist the temptation to tool them up, their cost can go up quickly. This was the single most-desirable entry of the book, for me. While I do like most of the above, I am a bit disappointed that most of the stuff seems basically unchanged, and there is almost nothing new. Best use: Lone basic Inquisitors are great and cheap unit-buffers. Still arguably a great choice for their cost. The warlord trait-thingy can be spammed...Verdict: nice, but some new stuff would have been more appreciated.***Overall impressions***Hmm. A bit of a missed opportunity. Yes, it is handy to have most of these guys together in 1 book. however, most entries are mediocre. Some are ridiculous. Some are nice. None is overpowered for sure, which I personally like - but what I DON'T like is that other armies do get op stuff: this book won't help much in balancing the game. I would have preferred to see new stuff rather than a copy/paste of old rules. Some are even badly copy/pasted, and you get some very stupid results: e.g. for some reason the AdMech Enginseers can awake the machine spirit of AM vehicles, but not those of *their own* AdMech vehicles. Or, the Areonautica imperialis provides flying transports that suck as air cover and that can only transport their own officer in the beginning. And above all, the game is now even more confused: how many different versions of the same Priests, Enginseers, marine variants, etc. do we have now? Even more. It would have been much better to replace older versions and say that these update all previous formations entries. Integrate stuff vs juxtaposing is the issue. And this has not been done. Overall, I am afraid that half of this book is useless, and the rest ranges from disappointing to barely ok. It is good to have a very very thin patina of updated rules for the Inquisitors, at least. I would rate this book 6 out of 10. Before knocking the valkyries, read page 120 of the core rules. You can absolutely put more than the naval officer in those lovely skymera Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4618187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorValentyne Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I apologize for the formatting errors. But did anyone else catch the psyocculum henchmen warband with mystic in valkyrie combo? Gsc are going to hate this army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4618191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I believe this codex is severely underestimated. Bs10 psychic hunting vehicles for one, and an incredible slew of fantastic new ways to include bonuses from multiple factions. A lot of people argued the faq for valkyries, but forgot to check the rules first. A single mystic in a squad of acolytes in a valkyrie is incredible! Ignoring the chance for dangerous terrain from grav chutes! That's phenomenal, and a good resurrection for valkyries since their fall out of favor. Not to mention the corvus as an inquisitor delivery system for my brain mines and psychotroke grenades as well as the grimoire of true names. My singular complaint is that I still have to look out sir for my invuln, and can't automatically pass it. Another complaint is the lack of storm shields for the death watch. Aside from that, this codex is incredible in it's complexity and updated rules for what was once the daemon hunters. The DW Kill Team can take storm shields - they're in the data slate for the Veterans, not in the Wargear List. Same for heavy thunder hammers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4618233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasEll Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Valentyne, I'm not sure where you are getting the rules that allow battle brothers to start in each others transports. Prehaps my digital edition of the rules has different pages to whatever you are looking at, but for me 120 was a page about Jet Bikes. Not to mention the fact that I'm not sure how you are ending up with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in a Corvus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4618287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Acolyte squads can take Valkyries as DTs, so there's that. Inquisitors cannot start in a Corvus, because of that stupid ruling in the FAQ. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4618695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The 0-1 entries on the DC Assassin and Crusader. Does that mean only 1 of each max in a Henchman unit? I remember reading somewhere that they come in pairs for one selection, is that true? If so, does that affect the point costs (for example, one set of two Crusaders costs as much as 2 solo Crusaders)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4619134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It would be 0-1 units of those. So you can actually only take them in minimums of two and then any upgrades from its datasheet. At least that is how I read it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4619206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 It would be 0-1 units of those. So you can actually only take them in minimums of two and then any upgrades from its datasheet. At least that is how I read it. Minimums of two, but more are possible, right? Sorry, I have no access to the book, so I can not check myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4619217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I don't have my codex on hand at the moment either. But unless I missed something, then yes it works just like any other formation. You take the units you want with any upgrades that are available, so extra squad members and (unless this gets FAQed) dedicated transports, then they all get merged into one unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4619229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 DCAs and crusaders - 2-10 Arcoflagellants - 3-10 0-6 Jokaero 0-6 Daemonhosts Can also include 0-1 each of Priest, Astropath and Tech-Priest Enginseer. Also a mandatory 3-12 Acolytes, any of which can be upgraded to Mystics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4619304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.I. Litcherstein Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 We've opened up discussion on the Inquisitor/Deathwatch Transport question, which is really just an extension of current Battle Brother Transport questions as each of these "Chambers" keep their original faction, even in reference to the Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband. This discussion covers the I.H.W. formation, its transport options, the Chambers Militant conversation, and the transport question, "rules questions": http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328860-rules-questions/ Here's an argument for: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/322321-allied-ic-attached-to-unit-and-deployed-inside-transport/ Some speculate that because of the FaQ's: "NO" to "Are battle brothers allowed to deploy embarked upon a battle brother's transports?", that even the Independent Character would have to comply -however as the above conversation points out, and as ^ did, the rulebook states that Independent Characters that have joined a unit are considered part of the unit for all rules purposes. Because Battle Brothers may embark on each other's transports, Independent Characters can join Battle Brothers, and become part of if, we should have no problems. I would say that allowing the inquisitor to start beside his Veterans (in a Corvus w/ pschotroke/rad), or Grey Knights (deepstriking Malleus Terminator A. Psycannon) is advantage enough, along with Coteaz's rule. So may a techpriest begin the game inside of a Corvus, and repair it from inside each turn? On the subject of substituting units from parent codexes (for Ch.Mi.), it's most likely a No (pg# is referenced, the name is identical but they have different options). This one is primarily about the aforementioned transport question, but also backs up the Ch. Mi. discussion: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328853-imperial-agents-deathwatch-transport-question/page-2 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328870-codex-imperial-agents-review/page/2/#findComment-4620336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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