Jacinda Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I thought the name refered to a resort location. The majestic Cadia Falls! Over 5km high the equivalent of Lake Superior cascades down corundum stone ever day. It's a beautiful sight. .... Unlike little old ladies on TV commercials, Cadia is capable of getting up after a fall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4600859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackedDuck Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Unlike little old ladies on TV commercials, Cadia is capable of getting up after a fall. This is genuinely hilarious :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4600887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Warhammer Community talked us up today. I'm not yet sure all is lost. #CadiaStands Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Cadia won't be going anywhere, anyone saying otherwise will get a visit from the commissariat! Besides know exactly how this will go - words will be typed (possibly not very well), people will talk and nothing will actually change The real issue is that despite the name and focus the book apparently has nothing for Guard in? That's odd, but must mean we get our treats in a follow up book - possibly also a herald of an updated codex too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Ill admit I'm somewhat pessimistic of that happening. The GKs were in War Zone Fenris and are one of the few factions with no decurion detachment and got nothing .... Im looking forward to more of the fluff than anything from these releases. I stumbled upon an old rumour from October on Faeit last night which mentioned expect something for traitor guard too... who knows in these mysterious days of the new GW Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Cadia won't be going anywhere, anyone saying otherwise will get a visit from the commissariat! Besides know exactly how this will go - words will be typed (possibly not very well), people will talk and nothing will actually change The real issue is that despite the name and focus the book apparently has nothing for Guard in? That's odd, but must mean we get our treats in a follow up book - possibly also a herald of an updated codex too? My inner optimist says guard will get a decent revamp with new models. Fingers crossed. I personally really like the Cadian look, and kind of hope if they don't revamp guard into a standardized equipment pattern that the new kits adopt the rebreather heads and assault packs with some a slightly slimmer profile for the bodies and less bulky weapons. Rules wise I think a plastic field artillery piece (not heavy artillery) would be a cool addition and the return of heavy weapons platoons would be great. Maybe even include the option to purchase Aegis lines as DT like the solar auxilia have to help gunline players? I get so jacked thinking about guard armies :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Unlike little old ladies on TV commercials, Cadia is capable of getting up after a fall. I was thinking along the same lines, if you fall, you get back up. Or retake the damn planet...we will choke the forces of Chaos with our dead! Also pretty pretty please give us plastic Kasrkin to deliver the Emperor's righteous fury. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 we will choke the forces of Chaos with our dead! Well, I bet Khorne would appreciate that, for one! :P As for plastic guard stuff, I don't see a revamp happening. They've just released the new "armoured" bundle and whatnot, and the Cadian model range still seems perfectly servicable (even if I personally still find them a bit boring for my personal tastes). There are other model lines in more dire need up upgrades than the Cadians, for sure. Completely new units might happen of course, but I think their lineup is already pretty good in that department, just the overall army list and rules could use some work in other ways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I think many of us would be happy with a new codex and new kits for non-Cadian infantry ranges - emphasis on the plural - but that's not what this topic is to discuss. Though given that the book is alleged to give us nothing you could argue there is little left to discuss... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4611903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inso Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 So Cadia falls. The rest of the Imperium will already be on the way to try to seal the rift / prevent the unrestrained flood of chaos from the eye. The eldar will definitely be involved... Eldrad wouldn't stand by when there is a chance of the return of Khaine himself... Cadia will become a Chaos staging post if it remains in their hands... this may lead to the start of a proper chaos incursion into real-space... PROPER chaos worlds and weirdly chaotic terrain / laws of physics. Maybe the Tau will become entangled with the Imperium... a fragile truce? Orks will flood to the area with the mere hint of war and plunder to be had. I heard a small piece of video that said "Cadia definitely falls... but it's what happens leading up to it and when the dust settles that will make this a great opportunity..." or something very similar... so (apart from new miniatures) there will be lots of new stories born. Maybe Chaos will be the 40K version of the Star Wars Empire with the Imperials being battered into becoming like the rebels? Maybe a new race appears... Demiurg... or maybe the Eldar will finally have their fall? One thing that is definite is that it will certainly cause changes to the canon of the 40K universe... and the remaining Cadian armies will almost certainly be playing a large part in it :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs_evo7 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Cadia won't be going anywhere, anyone saying otherwise will get a visit from the commissariat! Besides know exactly how this will go - words will be typed (possibly not very well), people will talk and nothing will actually change The real issue is that despite the name and focus the book apparently has nothing for Guard in? That's odd, but must mean we get our treats in a follow up book - possibly also a herald of an updated codex too? My inner optimist says guard will get a decent revamp with new models. Fingers crossed. I personally really like the Cadian look, and kind of hope if they don't revamp guard into a standardized equipment pattern that the new kits adopt the rebreather heads and assault packs with some a slightly slimmer profile for the bodies and less bulky weapons. Rules wise I think a plastic field artillery piece (not heavy artillery) would be a cool addition and the return of heavy weapons platoons would be great. Maybe even include the option to purchase Aegis lines as DT like the solar auxilia have to help gunline players? I get so jacked thinking about guard armies :D A field gun would be epic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 "Cadia who? Shut up and buy some loyalist Space Marines already. Oh, you mean those Astra Militarum models? Yeah, they're not a real army. They're for allying with your Space Marines silly. " Yeah, I'm seriously concerned the Imperial Guard are going to be relegated to the role of Dwarfs in the End Times in that they're just sort of... there, serving as the third wheel to the big players (Empire and the Elves), because they know a few people play with them. Creed and Co. will get some stupid, humiliating death halfway through the book to show how 'ard the threat is and to give the Space Marines motivation to save the day. I don't think they'll Squat the Cadian line, but I don't think they'll do anything with it either. I'm a broken record to some, but Phil Kelly's IG list (see the other thread in here) really made me nervous in that sense. It's a 1500pt "Guard" list that has like 650pts of allies (mostly Assassins and Legion of the Damned). Yes, it was timed to sell the C:IA book, but it also makes me think less than positive thoughts on where GW is heading (or not heading) with IG. I think someone on either Cadia's Creed blog or Frontline Gaming made the comment about the Cadian Battle Group: "this kind of confirms my suspicions that GW has no idea how people actually play IG" My biggest concern is that Cadia goes out with a whimper rather than a bang. Warhammer Community talked us up today. I'm not yet sure all is lost. #CadiaStands Any excerpts? What were the highlights? +++++ On a different note, my gut says that if (that's how pessimistic I have become) IG gets any love soon, it will be about buffing smaller numbers of models to have a swinging chance against other forces. Bubbles of BS4 or longer ranged weapons or something. Horde armies just don't work these days without a serious ivestment that borders on the clinically insane. Perhaps it will be justified as Cadian Forces-in-Exile are righteously pissed off and only the elite-of-the-elite surivived its fall so now it's an army of basically SM Scouts. #rampantspeculation As for Plastic Karskin........we can hope and dream, but I think that's not going to happen. The fact that Militarum Tempestus (including its own "codex") exists at all shows that they want to push those kits. I expect Karskin to be officially squatted and retconned into "the Scions that happened to be stationed on Cadia for 10,000 years." REmember the GW pipeline: Models are made --> Fluff is made --> rules are made. Unless GW shows some incredible self-awareness, which would be applause-worthy in and of itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 As for Plastic Karskin........we can hope and dream, but I think that's not going to happen. The fact that Militarum Tempestus (including its own "codex") exists at all shows that they want to push those kits. I expect Karskin to be officially squatted and retconned into "the Scions that happened to be stationed on Cadia for 10,000 years." REmember the GW pipeline: Models are made --> Fluff is made --> rules are made. Unless GW shows some incredible self-awareness, which would be applause-worthy in and of itself. Kasrkin models are a very different aesthetic, so much so a whole bunch of people leapt at the Made to Order ones, they'd likely sell ridiculously well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Kasrkin could come in the form of a 'Cadian Veteran squad' box that can be mixed with Scions bits to make Cadian specific stormtroopers. Basically a veteran squad in carapace armor. It wouldn't have the cool older style hellguns but it would be a decent gap in the Cadian range that needs to be filled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I have to agree. Kasrkin look would be great for Cadians Veterans for those that want a small elite human army. Tempestus don't cut it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Warhammer Community talked us up today. I'm not yet sure all is lost. #CadiaStands Any excerpts? What were the highlights? Nothing truly crazy. Just a quick official history of Cadia and the pylons. And then Warhammer Community posted it with the Cadia Stands hashtag. Very little of note TBH. ++++ Personally, as much as I like the Cadian range (I'm currently building a Cadian Regiment, even) and as much as I dislike Chaos, the fact is that if Abaddon can't take Cadia, he doesn't have a prayer of taking Terra. So if lucky number 13 is really supposed to be The Big One, then Cadia, logically, can't hold out. I'm ok with that. I just hope the Guard gets updated rules. ++++ I just don't understand why the MT replaced the Kasrkin. I get that the Kasrkin are pretty uniquely Cadian and another range of veteran/stormtrooper models wasn't a bad idea. The MT is awful. The aesthetic is bad, making them their own faction is baffling, and the codex reads like bad fan fiction. I like nothing about them and I'm hoping for new veteran/stormtrooper models that actually look like Imperials. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4612996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with Scions now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4613074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with Scions now. Yea, that's kind of my point. The kits are built and to boost sales they will find ways to boost sales, whether by pull (hey look! Rules that are actually cool and useful!) or push (the only way you can play IG of any sort is if you bring 9 units of Scions!). Adding something is in anyway similar (and Karskin would definitely be similar) would impact those sales. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for there to be plastic Karskin I just think we need to set sites to "realistic"/"think like a business" on this one. Sitting on shelf = more important to sell than invest in design/manufacture new models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4613121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Didn't realize Scions were so hated :P I've no idea about the codex and whatnot, but I find the models to be... ok. Better than Cadians, though I don't like the masked heads, gonna use the other ones for mine. Kasrkin does look better than regular Cadians as well, so plastic could be nice. The regular Cadians.. well, I've come to conclude that probably the things I dislike the most are the helmets and the green in the color scheme. Though looking at the sets again I only just remembered that the regular Shock Troopers kit doesn't come with plasma/melta, which is lame. Not that it's much different from my Vostroyans and Steel Legion who don't even get a melta gun at all... pff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4613471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowclinic Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 My only issue with the Scion kit is that the plasma gun has an awkward one armed pose. I'm not the best at kit bashing, so I scraped some bits together and ended up with four various one armed poses as the other arms I had wouldn't fit correctly. One of the guys has a slung arm, and another with a bionic arm. I guess these guys got hot... With regards to the bigger picture, I think the way the general meta is going, we'll see a more Imperium focused take where allies are encouraged. It does fit in with the fluff, and I don't see it as a bad thing. If a new Codex comes, which I think it will be, I'm hoping we don't get a bad deal. Maybe Wyverns will be upped in cost, which is something I'm quite worried about. I'd like to see Orgryns/Bullgryns lowered in cost, as they're great models that would be effective if they weren't so expensive points-wise. The argument that GW don't know how to run Guard isn't something I agree with entirely. If you look at a majority of lists that come from GW, they're fun, fluffy, usually creative, and bring a different take to what we have at our disposal. Either that, or they're hyping up Marines to sell more! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4613701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I don't think it's that the Scions are hated - it's just the removal of Kasrkin that's the issue. I've also hoped for a return as "carapace Vets" or something similar, but that's always felt unlikely unfortunately. Early rumour has it the next book is Orks vs Toasters, so maybe a wait yet. That said, I'd rather have a codex than a campaign book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4613759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endman Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 A 'Veterans' upgrade sprue would be nice, and it would replace the ages old Forgeworld resin one. Personally I don't have a problem with the current plastic Cadians, or their overall aesthetic. It's classic! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4613811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Didn't realize Scions were so hated I've no idea about the codex and whatnot, but I find the models to be... ok. Better than Cadians, though I don't like the masked heads, gonna use the other ones for mine. Kasrkin does look better than regular Cadians as well, so plastic could be nice. The regular Cadians.. well, I've come to conclude that probably the things I dislike the most are the helmets and the green in the color scheme. Though looking at the sets again I only just remembered that the regular Shock Troopers kit doesn't come with plasma/melta, which is lame. Not that it's much different from my Vostroyans and Steel Legion who don't even get a melta gun at all... pff. That's the issue: the removal of karskin, one of the generally coolest units in the game only to be replaced by something half as interesting and less-well executed on the tabletop. If they had both, MT would probably actually see more use. But since scions exist and the kits need to sell, I don't expect to see anything that will ever rival them until those kits have been sold. I think the other issue is the fluff. I'm not the most experienced or well read with scion/karskin fluff, but basically scions are academy boys that have an Associate's degree to a Commissar's Bachelor's degree. Kinda sorta. Not awful fluff, but not incredibly inspiring. Karskin are the Cadians--who are given lasguns instead of pacifiers in their cribs--who have proven to be so badass, and so good at killing (Chaos) Space Marines--who the rest of the Imperium are top to worship as demi-gods--that they have been handpicked to form elite commando units that infiltrate into the rear of chaos space marine armies and often outshoot them. Which backstory catches your attention a bit more? Also, I might be a bit influenced from the original Dawn of War video game, where the karskin were portrayed as reliably shooting the out of space marines: they had longer-ranged, more powerful guns that also had awesome sound effects to boot. They were ever so slightly better in CQC than your average guardsman, but were mobile and deadly enough at range that you could really do damage. My only issue with the Scion kit is that the plasma gun has an awkward one armed pose. I'm not the best at kit bashing, so I scraped some bits together and ended up with four various one armed poses as the other arms I had wouldn't fit correctly. One of the guys has a slung arm, and another with a bionic arm. I guess these guys got hot... With regards to the bigger picture, I think the way the general meta is going, we'll see a more Imperium focused take where allies are encouraged. It does fit in with the fluff, and I don't see it as a bad thing. If a new Codex comes, which I think it will be, I'm hoping we don't get a bad deal. Maybe Wyverns will be upped in cost, which is something I'm quite worried about. I'd like to see Orgryns/Bullgryns lowered in cost, as they're great models that would be effective if they weren't so expensive points-wise. The argument that GW don't know how to run Guard isn't something I agree with entirely. If you look at a majority of lists that come from GW, they're fun, fluffy, usually creative, and bring a different take to what we have at our disposal. Either that, or they're hyping up Marines to sell more! Totally agree on the plasma gun thing. I guess the Schola Progenium textbook says to always hold your plasma rifle to the side at that angle? Is there a firing mechanism activated by pointing at things with the offhand? The whole "must take allies" thing scares me. Partially for consumer reasons ("oh you want to play the Imperium? spend 4x as much as your xenos friends for the same effect"), which I think may backfire on them. Partially for pride reasons (you shouldn't ever be punished for playing mono-army). Partially for fluff reasons. Wyverns will cost 100pts next time around, because IG can't have nice things. Bullgryns could use a points decrease for sure. Ogryns I think would actually be pretty cool if they could be upgraded to take heavy weapons and had a form or relentless. There was kitbash I saw (can't find the link) of a squad of Ogryns carrying autocannons: one firing from the hip, the other with it slung over his shoulder, the other wielding it like a giant club. I think there's some potential there. Otherwise, yea, make them about 25pts and they stand a chance. "GW doesn't know how to play Guard" is a loaded statement, but one I have to agree with in many ways. Hidden Content Huh? The designers don't know their own product? Exactly. Without going into an essay or a diatribe, it all comes down to how the game is often played "in the wild" vs in a closed-network setting. There are all different types of people with different levels of competitiveness, but the bottom line is that the Codex as it stands gives very few trully "good" options these days and the attempts they've made to shore things up have been a mixed bag at best (i.e. Cadian Battle Group). The "best" options (debatable as are all things) in the IG codex at the moment are: Knight Commander Pask, typically in a Punisher (20x S5 shots with Rending and re-rolling armor pens, + Preferred Enemy) Wyverns Vendettas Conscript Blob of 50 + crapload of priests, psykers, etc... The tried-and-true melta vets in Chimera spam Most of the official lists or such that GW puts out tend to focus on unmodified Infantry Platoons, Sentinels (without the preferred enemy formation) and Leman Russ Battle Tanks (arguably one of the worst versions). Yes, it's fluffy and sounds great as a combined arms force on paper, but tends to fold like wet tissue without dealing much damage itself. When they are featured, they tend to go up against things they can actually handle....which feels like a used car salesman technique. "Hey, Guard are just fine! Watch them kill Eldar Storm Guardians!" as opposed to "hey, we just released this uber-powerful unit called Magnus. Here's how to defeat him using just Guard (as opposed to half your army being hard-counter allies)" I have never once seen GW acknowledge the idea of multiple veteran squads in Chimeras....which is interesting, because that used to be the most ubiquitous list type at events and tournaments. Hence the sense of disconnect for many IG players. I don't think it's that the Scions are hated - it's just the removal of Kasrkin that's the issue. I've also hoped for a return as "carapace Vets" or something similar, but that's always felt unlikely unfortunately. Early rumour has it the next book is Orks vs Toasters, so maybe a wait yet. That said, I'd rather have a codex than a campaign book. Exactly. MT just feel so.....forced. It's an ok idea, but it's a half-baked one at best. The best way to sum the feeling up is with their weapon names. Even the name "hot shot lasgun" pales compared to the elegantly badass "hellgun." Toasters? = Admech? Necrons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4614077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Necrons, AdMech are above derisive nicknames ;) We'll be finding out what Cadia is doing very soon, so those who become in the know update this topic with tidbits :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4614083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 If you check the black library pictures, all signs point towards Cadia going boom boom. If that is true, this sucks big time. No more Karskins.and Cadian Shock Troops in general :O Edit: In the fluff, that is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328972-cadia-falls/page/2/#findComment-4614970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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