Cadia Falls...

[duz_]

Looking at the flock to the front line special rule it says "each time a troops unit is completely destroyed" the important part of that is the word unit not choice. Meaning that you can take a platoon and when any of the squads are killed you could roll on them coming back instead of waiting for them all (including the pcs) to die before rolling.

Yes, I was just going over the rules and this is how I interpret it too.

 

Now the question is how do DT get ruled? Per the rule book they're considered their own unit for all game purposes. While being considered the same FoC type as what the unit they were purchased for.

 

So does that mean if a chimera is destroyed it will come back on by itself?

To me it does for the same reason as individual squads in a platoon would...

Similarly you can recycle taroux primes for troop MT squads!

 

I can't wait to play this formation. :)

[Median]

Oooo now that is a very interesting point. It would be amazing being able to recycle DTS.

[VulkansDynasty]

The way I see it is like you guys just said. DT's are one "unit", the squad another. This formation is the best guard thing ever...ever! Things keep coming back. And you can use marines or sisters for assault units. And lots of tanks...tanks...and more tanks.

[Inso]

It does say troop unit... surely a Chimera is a vehicle unit?

[Marwynn]

Would having a SM Captain on a Bike still allow you to take SM Bikes as Troops in a Castellans list?

[robofish7591]

It does say troop unit... surely a Chimera is a vehicle unit?

 

Dedicated transports take on the battlefield role of the unit that took them.  So a chimera taken as a dedicated transport for a vet squad would count as a troop unit, and one taken as a transport for a scion squad would be an elite unit.

[duz_]

Would having a SM Captain on a Bike still allow you to take SM Bikes as Troops in a Castellans list?

I thought about this but there is an entire page outlining specifically what can be taken for each slot.

There isn't an exception there for troop bikers.

 

Yes Inso as mentioned above DTs become the same role as the unit they were purchased for and the rule states any infantry unit can recycle on a 5+ with all of its original upgrades.

I don't mind paying 65pts+ for a chimera now. :)

[Toxichobbit]

Would having a SM Captain on a Bike still allow you to take SM Bikes as Troops in a Castellans list?

 

Nope. As mentioned above it specifically lists which Troop units can be taken. If it was any Troops from X Codices then yes, but it's specific ones. Same with the HQs, some HQs from C:SM are allowed, others aren't.

[Icepick]

Yes Inso as mentioned above DTs become the same role as the unit they were purchased for and the rule states any infantry unit can recycle on a 5+ with all of its original upgrades.

I don't mind paying 65pts+ for a chimera now. :)

Or 80+ for a MT Taurox prime... This detachment brings a whole lot of cool things!

[duz_]

Unfortunately I've been throwing together a bulk mounted infantry list making the most of IG MT and SM and the points add up quick!

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The more I look at the Castellans detachment, the more I seem to hate it. At first it seemed to be an amazing idea, but when I look at it RAW, it's just horribly restrictive. You can only take Units that are specifically listed, which means that you either take Black templars, or a generic vanilla marines force. You can only take specific things from the AM/MT codecies, which means no FW support, which is poop, since the guard have access to some amazing fliers. 

 

I'm thinking that I'll stick with my Solar Auxilia.

[Brother Captain Ed]

The more I look at the Castellans detachment, the more I seem to hate it. At first it seemed to be an amazing idea, but when I look at it RAW, it's just horribly restrictive. You can only take Units that are specifically listed, which means that you either take Black templars, or a generic vanilla marines force. You can only take specific things from the AM/MT codecies, which means no FW support, which is poop, since the guard have access to some amazing fliers. 

 

I'm thinking that I'll stick with my Solar Auxilia.

Sure, but if it wasn't restrictive then it's just Unbound: The Formation!

 

I know GW has been phoning in rules for decades now, but that would be a bit much, even for them.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

The more I look at the Castellans detachment, the more I seem to hate it. At first it seemed to be an amazing idea, but when I look at it RAW, it's just horribly restrictive. You can only take Units that are specifically listed, which means that you either take Black templars, or a generic vanilla marines force. You can only take specific things from the AM/MT codecies, which means no FW support, which is poop, since the guard have access to some amazing fliers. 

 

I'm thinking that I'll stick with my Solar Auxilia.

Sure, but if it wasn't restrictive then it's just Unbound: The Formation!

 

I know GW has been phoning in rules for decades now, but that would be a bit much, even for them.

 

I'm cool with the listings being a bit restrictive, it's just that they have limited this so much that it may apply to 1-2 people in a given meta. What's also annoying is that, on top of those gripes, it has the potential to be great.

 

I mean, I could run my guard with raven guard support, but I can't take shrike, because he's not listed, which means that I'd have to use a generic captain. It's just all a bit annoying. 

 

On the other hand, I can now run Yarrick with MT troops with dread and stormtalon gunship support. I'll have to play around with it to see how I like it.

[VulkansDynasty]

I think its a fun idea, and restrictive to limit the cheese. If you let all the characters and all the formations and all the FW stuff into this list it could very well suck the fun out of it for a lot of players.

 

Can I take my Bray'arth, Vulkan, an Achillies in here? nope, but I can play a thematic army for a change that gets rules on the table instead of just being "CAD + CAD". It's not the best, but it's not bad either. I'll be using it this weekend mixing Guard and Salamanders, and we'll see how it works. Plus you can play space marines + guard tanks/walker army!!! OMG! (aside from the troop choices)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I mean, ok, it's kinda cool that I can take a couple of contemptor dreads plus stormtroopers as troops, with some assault marines, and guard tanks, and have it all in the same detachment. Plus throwing in some stormtalon gunships for air support. Is it perfect? No, and it's annoying not being able to use the forgeworld models I have (2 Vultures and 2 thunderbolts). Furthermore, it's annoying because I have to use Vanilla Marines, as I have only a very small force of them. 

[Shamansky]

This formation is an apotheosis of GW's listbuilding. I was not starting my Guard army to be able to play it with all those shiny semi-humans in power armour.

It becomes more and more personal for me: first they almost killed Black Templars making them a CODEX-chapter, inspite that girlyman's book was the reason of their creation as act of not accepting new rules, now they make Guard be a bunch of bottle-washers. 

[Indefragable]

I think it's a test-bed for 8th edition ideas. 

 

I think they want to see how people react and what kinds of combos get built. 

 

I basically will run my normal Guard list + Coteaz to make everything OBSEC. Re-rolls in CQC are just hilarious gravy. For that reason, though I sympathize with the sentiment of many people who have problem with it, It's a net-win in my book. 

[Brother Captain Ed]

I think it's a test-bed for 8th edition ideas. 

 

I think they want to see how people react and what kinds of combos get built. 

 

I basically will run my normal Guard list + Coteaz to make everything OBSEC. Re-rolls in CQC are just hilarious gravy. For that reason, though I sympathize with the sentiment of many people who have problem with it, It's a net-win in my book. 

I don't know why we didn't see it coming.  GW views model sales first and rules second.  Unbound in the rulebook was just the canary in the coal mine.  This new direction "frees" players from having to choose a faction or having to layout significant resources to pickup a second faction.  

 

Now a new player can walk into a store and say "Wow, Space Marines!" pick up some models, learn about the fluff, and then say "Well, the Inquisition is neat...here's an Inquisitor."  And, once that itch is scratched, "Those new Sisters look pretty good.  I can add a squad to that Inquisitor."  And then, further, "Huh...I feel like some big guns..." and a couple LRs or Bassies now get added to this collection.

 

This is great from GW's standpoint.  And, truthfully, I am beginning to think it's pretty good from ours, too.  I went from experimenting with new Ultramarine ideas every so often, to having no fewer three separate labors of love on my workbench (An IG company, The Triumvirate, and some Inquisition).  I'm enjoying painting and modeling more in the last month than in the last few years.

[duz_]

Tbh super friends detachment is really no difference from the battle brother status the imperium already has. It just means less HQ taxes and more flexibility to build a force.

Im all for it tbh.

 

From my understanding of AoS that's how the grand alliances work, but you get more bonuses for sticking with a single faction list. I think that would work well in 40k. It will help the xenos too not that I care, but we need to throw them a bone now and again so we can crush them later!

[Indefragable]

 

I think it's a test-bed for 8th edition ideas. 

 

I think they want to see how people react and what kinds of combos get built. 

 

I basically will run my normal Guard list + Coteaz to make everything OBSEC. Re-rolls in CQC are just hilarious gravy. For that reason, though I sympathize with the sentiment of many people who have problem with it, It's a net-win in my book. 

I don't know why we didn't see it coming.  GW views model sales first and rules second.  Unbound in the rulebook was just the canary in the coal mine.  This new direction "frees" players from having to choose a faction or having to layout significant resources to pickup a second faction.  

 

Now a new player can walk into a store and say "Wow, Space Marines!" pick up some models, learn about the fluff, and then say "Well, the Inquisition is neat...here's an Inquisitor."  And, once that itch is scratched, "Those new Sisters look pretty good.  I can add a squad to that Inquisitor."  And then, further, "Huh...I feel like some big guns..." and a couple LRs or Bassies now get added to this collection.

 

This is great from GW's standpoint.  And, truthfully, I am beginning to think it's pretty good from ours, too.  I went from experimenting with new Ultramarine ideas every so often, to having no fewer three separate labors of love on my workbench (An IG company, The Triumvirate, and some Inquisition).  I'm enjoying painting and modeling more in the last month than in the last few years.

 

 

 

Tbh super friends detachment is really no difference from the battle brother status the imperium already has. It just means less HQ taxes and more flexibility to build a force.

Im all for it tbh.

 

From my understanding of AoS that's how the grand alliances work, but you get more bonuses for sticking with a single faction list. I think that would work well in 40k. It will help the xenos too not that I care, but we need to throw them a bone now and again so we can crush them later!

 

Replying to both of you at once.

 

I don't play Age of Sigmar, nor really have any interest, so correct me if I'm wrong:

 

The main AoS person in my club says that Factions in AoS are Tiered, with the more bonuses applying as a result of how mono-force you are. So, to put it in 40k terms:

 

• You use whatever the heck you want in your army. Essentially Unbound.
• However, if everything in your army is say from the Imperium, you get bonus x
• If everything in your army is from Astra Militarum of the Imperium, you also get y
• If all the AM units are from Catachan, then you get z as well. 
• So a fluffy mono-build actually is a benefit with bonuses x+y+z. Fluff and rules unite!

 

Something like that, or maybe it's not everything in your army has to be, but you can't get z unless x is met, etc....

[Brother Captain Ed]

 

 

I think it's a test-bed for 8th edition ideas. 

 

I think they want to see how people react and what kinds of combos get built. 

 

I basically will run my normal Guard list + Coteaz to make everything OBSEC. Re-rolls in CQC are just hilarious gravy. For that reason, though I sympathize with the sentiment of many people who have problem with it, It's a net-win in my book. 

I don't know why we didn't see it coming.  GW views model sales first and rules second.  Unbound in the rulebook was just the canary in the coal mine.  This new direction "frees" players from having to choose a faction or having to layout significant resources to pickup a second faction.  

 

Now a new player can walk into a store and say "Wow, Space Marines!" pick up some models, learn about the fluff, and then say "Well, the Inquisition is neat...here's an Inquisitor."  And, once that itch is scratched, "Those new Sisters look pretty good.  I can add a squad to that Inquisitor."  And then, further, "Huh...I feel like some big guns..." and a couple LRs or Bassies now get added to this collection.

 

This is great from GW's standpoint.  And, truthfully, I am beginning to think it's pretty good from ours, too.  I went from experimenting with new Ultramarine ideas every so often, to having no fewer three separate labors of love on my workbench (An IG company, The Triumvirate, and some Inquisition).  I'm enjoying painting and modeling more in the last month than in the last few years.

 

 

 

Tbh super friends detachment is really no difference from the battle brother status the imperium already has. It just means less HQ taxes and more flexibility to build a force.

Im all for it tbh.

 

From my understanding of AoS that's how the grand alliances work, but you get more bonuses for sticking with a single faction list. I think that would work well in 40k. It will help the xenos too not that I care, but we need to throw them a bone now and again so we can crush them later!

 

Replying to both of you at once.

 

I don't play Age of Sigmar, nor really have any interest, so correct me if I'm wrong:

 

The main AoS person in my club says that Factions in AoS are Tiered, with the more bonuses applying as a result of how mono-force you are. So, to put it in 40k terms:

 

• You use whatever the heck you want in your army. Essentially Unbound.
• However, if everything in your army is say from the Imperium, you get bonus x
• If everything in your army is from Astra Militarum of the Imperium, you also get y
• If all the AM units are from Catachan, then you get z as well. 
• So a fluffy mono-build actually is a benefit with bonuses x+y+z. Fluff and rules unite!

 

Something like that, or maybe it's not everything in your army has to be, but you can't get z unless x is met, etc....

 

I'd be down for that.

[Shamansky]

all what im afraid of is that people will do again what they did many times before. they'll stop thinking and will just grab all the cheese they can reach with their greedy hands. which would lead to almost identical lists inspite of endless quantity of possible combinations. 

[duz_]

People will do that regardless of rules or editions

 

Best way to counter that is find a better gaming group

 

Fortunately most of the ones I've encountered haven't been power gamers

[Brother Captain Ed]

Agree with duz_.  This is a game of numbers.  There will always be a "best."

 

GW could do more to narrow the gaping chasm between "best" and "pants on head bad," of course.  But the situation will always exist.  The solution is the people you play against and your tolerance for them.  Sad...but true.

[Shamansky]

Waiting for 30 meters of high resolution printing to finish near thermal press after midnight has consequences