simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 In case Skal can't get back onto Discord, I've run the numbers on the Fourth. What I find interesting is that, even with a century, all Yucahu does is double his legion's size. However, this is definitely one of those scenarios that could potentially benefit from an additional combat doctrine rating of 'DESTRUCTION!' for an additional 100 mpy penalty. On the other hand, this does work as a potential idea of how many casualties the Void Eagles could lose during the Rangdan wars to reach their originally suggested number. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I kinda feel like finding the Primarch had a negative effect on the Shepherds/Berserkers. Potentially. Geneseed stability? Berserker recruiting efforts? The recruitment style, yeah. More potentials (wide/aggressive), but far harsher induction techniques. Maybe it’ll balance out with the greater numbers accounting for the greater drop-rate, but I don’t see any real benefit to rates with Raktra around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I kinda feel like finding the Primarch had a negative effect on the Shepherds/Berserkers. Potentially. Geneseed stability? Berserker recruiting efforts? The recruitment style, yeah. More potentials (wide/aggressive), but far harsher induction techniques. Maybe it’ll balance out with the greater numbers accounting for the greater drop-rate, but I don’t see any real benefit to rates with Raktra around. I was asking what is the Berserker geneseed stability rate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Stable enough, I'd say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Yeah. Thx^^. Math was never my strength^^ so I need to realocate my forces. With the 20 sears of isolation with all those refugees seeking shelter on caerbannog. How would that change the mpy rate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Yeah. Thx^^. Math was never my strength^^ so I need to realocate my forces. With the 20 sears of isolation with all those refugees seeking shelter on caerbannog. How would that change the mpy rate? Oh boy. Well, the big difference is combat. They're no longer acting as a front line force constantly at war, but as a defensive army that only engages in skirmishes. The one exception is helping Hectarion pacify Seg. Pacificus, but that only lasts three years. So, from the DoR to the end of the Pacificus campaign in 036, I'll assume they're still at Great Crusade casualties/combat. That's 600 mpy for 5 years for a total of 3,000 marines. After that is 18 years of patrol duty. For this, I would actually double the mpy to 1,200. 1,200 x 18 = 21,600 marines. At most I would triple it for a total of 32,400 marines. That's just additional marines entering the Legion. This does not address the total legion size since that would be affected by the DoR and the periodic defections from the Wardens of Light. The other side of the coin being that the legion recruitment rate will be unaffected by those defections. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just need to know the numbers to calculate the numbers and adapt the losses due to defection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Barring a potential Shepherds/Berserkers divide, my calculations are complete. There will have to be some adjusting of fluff to better reflect the changes. Some Unification battles (at least the Drowned) need to be tweaked. The Lightning Bearers are no longer the largest legion, which has some potential angles to utilize. From Discord: Hm, now that the Harbingers are no longer the largest legion, I wonder if we can tie that into Icarion's growing jealously. Or, Icarion could abandon the Ghost Crusade and focus on increasing his legion's size in prepartion for the Insurrection Grifft: Maybe he sees the dispersion of resources away from the 1st as a threat to their long term survival? Because early on they'd be getting the best and most materiel because of their size/importance. As time passes that importance would wane as other Primarchs are found and he becomes 1 in 20 rather than singular. And the size that he has built up gets surpassed by those who have come later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just how big are we making the Eagle Warriors, by the way? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5044981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just how big are we making the Eagle Warriors, by the way? The numbers I give work for only standard marines. We could easily bulk them up with an accelerated recruitment program and their clones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 They probably should get that bulking up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Since the first round was lost (somehow), I'm trying to reconstruct the DoR ambushes. Halcyon Wardens versus Harbingers Wardens of Light versus Eagle Warriors Crimson Lions versus Berserkers of Uran Scions Hospitallers verus the Drowned Warriors of Peace versus Fire Keepers Iron Bears versus Godslayers & Grave Stalkers Void Eagles versus Morning Stars & Steel Legion Predators versus Warbringers Dune Serpents versus themselves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It matches what you posted in the Schism thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Berserkers appear awhile after the DoR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It matches what you posted in the Schism thread. IT WAS IN THE SCHISM THREAD!? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 See, I told you it is in the forum. :P Now, regarding the DoR. Does the Bloodlords vs. Predators ambush count, as well? Or are we rather focusing on entire Legions, right now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 See, I told you it is in the forum. Now, regarding the DoR. Does the Bloodlords vs. Predators ambush count, as well? Or are we rather focusing on entire Legions, right now? Is this like the Void Eagles vs Morning Stars & Steel Legion where one element of a Loyalist Legion has gone Dark Side? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 It matches what you posted in the Schism thread. IT WAS IN THE SCHISM THREAD!? Poor Sim Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 For ease of editing (and necessary retcons), I'm consolidating all of Second Son into a separate thread. Think of it as a finished draft, while the first thread will serve as a rough draft and open to commentary from the peanut gallery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I look forward to reading the final edits! I shall use this to motivate mine own writing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 See, I told you it is in the forum. :P Now, regarding the DoR. Does the Bloodlords vs. Predators ambush count, as well? Or are we rather focusing on entire Legions, right now? Is this like the Void Eagles vs Morning Stars & Steel Legion where one element of a Loyalist Legion has gone Dark Side? Gone dark side and killed off an entire tribe of their own Legion, yep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 See, I told you it is in the forum. Now, regarding the DoR. Does the Bloodlords vs. Predators ambush count, as well? Or are we rather focusing on entire Legions, right now? Is this like the Void Eagles vs Morning Stars & Steel Legion where one element of a Loyalist Legion has gone Dark Side? Gone dark side and killed off an entire tribe of their own Legion, yep. Okay. I've spoken with Thorn, and he'd rather Kozja strike at Azus and the Dune Serpents. So, the Predators will be ambushed by their own brothers on the DoR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) Could we have forces of Warbringers attack both? Because the entire IX plus renegade XIV should see Azus and his Legion destroyed outright. Edited April 1, 2018 by bluntblade Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 How scattered are the Dune Serpents and Predators? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5045626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Kel says that only a few tribes are with Andezo on the DoR, while the Dune Serpents are typically even more scattered. And we can divide or gather as necessary. Fact 21: With the completion of the Unification Wars, the Legiones Astartes now stood as the Emperor's primary shock force with the forced retirement of the berserk Thunder Warriors. This was in spite of the fact that several Legions had yet to complete the Alpha induction, such as the II, XVII, and others. A little less than 45,000 served the Emperor in Mk I plate. Fact 22: Although noted for their overwhelming unity compared to the more idiosyncratic Legions under the Primarchs, several rivalries were already beginning to form at this early stage. The Fifth Legion strived to prove itself greater than the First, choosing to specialize in the melee to win quick and great victories in lieu of the more well-rounded First. [What other rivalries started back in the Unification Wars?] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/329759-general-discussion-secundus/page/123/#findComment-5046366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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