8th Edition: Zeal Rising

[Marshal Wolfhart]

Ok got to see the leakage...but no special rules nor unit rules like transports or vehicles.

-The detachments have dedicated transports in them and i don't see limitations anywhere, in the unit stats doesn't say anymore what it can and can't take as DT, so what makes a DT?

For DT it would have to be in the unit entry, Rhinos had that if memory serves.

-If the LRC have to take up a HS slot I just take a Spearhead Detachment and that's sorted right?

Right as long as there are no limitations towards how many detachments of which kind can be brought.

-Stuff it's expensive but take the LRC, It's now durable and the weapons are that much better, didn't really care for the Hurricane Bolter before but now seems decent. So it's maybe worth the points if i can save on shooty stuff to go around it?

-I don't get the excitement about the Rhino, I still need to disembark before it moves which means charge on turn 2, while the LRC can make it on turn 1. And most of my victories were because of in your face charge turn one.

How do you get to cahrge turn one with a LRC? Units would have to get out before moving too unless stated otherwise.

-We get two attacks with the chainsword but no longer the extra one for two CC weapons nor for the charge right?

You do get one extra attack in the form of a pistol shot though.

Hope that helped

[Gendo]

Ok got to see the leakage...but no special rules nor unit rules like transports or vehicles.

-The detachments have dedicated transports in them and i don't see limitations anywhere, in the unit stats doesn't say anymore what it can and can't take as DT, so what makes a DT?

For DT it would have to be in the unit entry, Rhinos had that if memory serves.

-If the LRC have to take up a HS slot I just take a Spearhead Detachment and that's sorted right?

Right as long as there are no limitations towards how many detachments of which kind can be brought.

-Stuff it's expensive but take the LRC, It's now durable and the weapons are that much better, didn't really care for the Hurricane Bolter before but now seems decent. So it's maybe worth the points if i can save on shooty stuff to go around it?

-I don't get the excitement about the Rhino, I still need to disembark before it moves which means charge on turn 2, while the LRC can make it on turn 1. And most of my victories were because of in your face charge turn one.

How do you get to cahrge turn one with a LRC? Units would have to get out before moving too unless stated otherwise.

-We get two attacks with the chainsword but no longer the extra one for two CC weapons nor for the charge right?

You do get one extra attack in the form of a pistol shot though.

Hope that helped

About DT, in the Detachment section of the Rulebook it says "Dedicated Transport, may include one for each other choice", nothing in the unit entry or transport entry specifies about DT.

About Detachments: From what i read they are only limited in tournament play, otherwise you just pay in the form of an extra HQ and in some cases with -1 command points.

About the charge: Haven't played for the last couple of months but I think i was able to first move (unless moving flat out) the LRC and then disembark and charge in the same turn.

Now it doesn't describe it as an Assault Vehicle anymore, but having the keywords LR and LRC maybe will include something in the special rules?

[Acebaur]

Basically Wolfhart has it. Dedicated transports are now their own unit type like Fast Attack or Elites. 

 

All transports you have to get out first before moving, but you can then move your full move after your 3" disembark so for normal infantry you get 9" worth of movement. 

 

As for the LRC being expensive, well yeah it is, but it's an absolute beast now. Shooting 36 shots(inside of 12") between the bolters and AC it will now kill over 5 MEQ on average which is pretty insane. It's also a behemoth to bring down with T8 16 wounds and a 2+ save. 

 

Edit: addressing your recent post, Dedicated transports have their own icon, which you will see in the unit entry. 

 

Detachments are if you want your army to be battleforged  and be able to use command points. 

 

In 7th yes you could move 6" with the LRC then disembark and charge. That's gone now, but now you can charge from all transports even when you arrive from reserves. 

[Gendo]

Basically Wolfhart has it. Dedicated transports are now their own unit type like Fast Attack or Elites. 

 

All transports you have to get out first before moving, but you can then move your full move after your 3" disembark so for normal infantry you get 9" worth of movement. 

 

As for the LRC being expensive, well yeah it is, but it's an absolute beast now. Shooting 36 shots(inside of 12") between the bolters and AC it will now kill over 5 MEQ on average which is pretty insane. It's also a behemoth to bring down with T8 16 wounds and a 2+ save. 

 

So assault vehicles are gone?

[Acebaur]

Yes, see my edit above

[Gendo]

Yes, see my edit above

 

Thanks, now i'm screwed for sure.

[AndrewChristlieb]

LRC being more expensive doesn't look too bad though, what's really surprised me though is the Stormraven... went from 235 in my normal configuration to 311... wow. Of course always on the table is amazing. Anyone else notice Landraiders can carry Jump units now too? LRC with a jump chappy and vanguard (while expensive) is pretty nice. Especially considering you can take more guys then the Stormraven and it opens up that option for players who don't do flyers.

[Gendo]

LRC being more expensive doesn't look too bad though, what's really surprised me though is the Stormraven... went from 235 in my normal configuration to 311... wow. Of course always on the table is amazing. Anyone else notice Landraiders can carry Jump units now too? LRC with a jump chappy and vanguard (while expensive) is pretty nice. Especially considering you can take more guys then the Stormraven and it opens up that option for players who don't do flyers.

 

Yea actually configured as before it's 287pts, not that bad, just sad i can't charge on turn 1.

 

WIth a jump chap you can jump in after the movement phase :) not within 9" of the enemy.

[Acebaur]

LRC being more expensive doesn't look too bad though, what's really surprised me though is the Stormraven... went from 235 in my normal configuration to 311... wow. Of course always on the table is amazing. Anyone else notice Landraiders can carry Jump units now too? LRC with a jump chappy and vanguard (while expensive) is pretty nice. Especially considering you can take more guys then the Stormraven and it opens up that option for players who don't do flyers.

Yea actually configured as before it's 287pts, not that bad, just sad i can't charge on turn 1.

WIth a jump chap you can jump in after the movement phase not within 9" of the enemy.

You can charge on turn one with teleporting terminators or jump pack Vanguard. You need 8" on your charge but you can get a re-roll with a command point.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

LRC being more expensive doesn't look too bad though, what's really surprised me though is the Stormraven... went from 235 in my normal configuration to 311... wow. Of course always on the table is amazing. Anyone else notice Landraiders can carry Jump units now too? LRC with a jump chappy and vanguard (while expensive) is pretty nice. Especially considering you can take more guys then the Stormraven and it opens up that option for players who don't do flyers.

 

 

Yea actually configured as before it's 287pts, not that bad, just sad i can't charge on turn 1.

 

WIth a jump chap you can jump in after the movement phase :) not within 9" of the enemy.

 

You can charge on turn one with teleporting terminators or jump pack Vanguard. You need 8" on your charge but you can get a re-roll with a command point.

DS abilities sa ou must be outside of 9", which means you need a 9+ (roll of an 9 and the 1" to count as engaged since for this game anything between 9.00000000000001 and 9.999999999999999999 is basically a 10" move. To make it simple you cold just place your models at 10" because they'll make the charge on a 9+ anyways).

[Gendo]

Does the Techmarine with the TFC count as HQ? Making a list, getting my Zeal back.

[BitsHammer]

Does the Techmarine with the TFC count as HQ? Making a list, getting my Zeal back.

He's heavy.

 

And in before: "He's not heavy, he's my battle brother." jokes.

[Gendo]

 

Does the Techmarine with the TFC count as HQ? Making a list, getting my Zeal back.

He's heavy.

 

And in before: "He's not heavy, he's my battle brother." jokes.

 

 

You making it difficult brother :) is a LasPred really 227?

[BitsHammer]

I don,t have the points handy, but probably.

[Acebaur]

Does the Techmarine with the TFC count as HQ? Making a list, getting my Zeal back.

He's heavy.

And in before: "He's not heavy, he's my battle brother." jokes.

You making it difficult brother is a LasPred really 227?

its 202

Predator is 102, 2x Lascannon at 25 each and Twin lascannon at 50. Where did you get the extra 25 from?

[Gendo]

Does the Techmarine with the TFC count as HQ? Making a list, getting my Zeal back.

He's heavy.

And in before: "He's not heavy, he's my battle brother." jokes.

You making it difficult brother is a LasPred really 227?

its 202

Predator is 102, 2x Lascannon at 25 each and Twin lascannon at 50. Where did you get the extra 25 from?

Don't have my collection with me, thought the sponsoons are twin linked.

[Acebaur]

They are just 2 single lascannons 

[Lysere]

Jump units in a land raider means 15" movement, 3 to get out with 12 normal, means some serious assault options early game. Might be worth it if you need to get stuck in fast.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I was mostly thinking for early game defense. Deepstrike is an option of course, but I don't know what options my opponents may have for intercepting yet. Of course we need to disembark during movement phase now :rolleyes: but still if we're looking at forward deployment of the landraider, plus 3" plus 12" plus charge that's a heck of a first turn possibility for assault with minimal risk to the unit if you don't have first turn.

[Gendo]

Here's my "I wish they made plastic sisters" and my "I like Helsreach" list:

 

1 LRC,                                                    287

1 min/max CC Crusader Squad of 15,   182

Grimaldus,                                             120

1 Rhino w/ 2 S.Bolters,                          74

1 min/max CC Crusader Squad of 10,  120

1 Bike Squad w/ 2 Meltaguns,              129

1 Bike Squad w/ 2 Plasmaguns,           118

 

1 Knight Crusaders                               436

 

Canoness (just because i have Veridian and she's cool), 55

2 Penitent Engines,                              224

1 Immolator w/Twin H.Bolter,               85

1 Repentia Squad of 4,                        68 

1 Mistress of Repentance w/Whip,      38

 

Total: 1936/2000 Leaves room for some upgrades.

[Castellan Doren]

For crusader squads i'm leaning towards a sword brother with lightning claws. It's one less shot, but a total of three attacks in melee rerolling failed wounds at -2 almost like a powerweapon.

 

Hell if i'm right powerweapons look to be mostly useless since it doesn't grant a extra attack like a chainsword.

 

Or am I stuck in my old ways believing melee should use the whole brick in melee?

[BitsHammer]

For crusader squads i'm leaning towards a sword brother with lightning claws. It's one less shot, but a total of three attacks in melee rerolling failed wounds at -3 like a powerweapon.

Hell if i'm right powerweapons look to be mostly useless since it doesn't grant a extra attack like a chainsword.

Or am I stuck in my old ways believing melee should use the whole brick in melee?

Power weapons are quality, chainswords are quantity. Targets determine which is more useful.

[Brother Carn]

 

For crusader squads i'm leaning towards a sword brother with lightning claws. It's one less shot, but a total of three attacks in melee rerolling failed wounds at -3 like a powerweapon.

Hell if i'm right powerweapons look to be mostly useless since it doesn't grant a extra attack like a chainsword.

Or am I stuck in my old ways believing melee should use the whole brick in melee?

Power weapons are quality, chainswords are quantity. Targets determine which is more useful.

 

I think its still only 1 powerweapon attack on a normal initiate, but from the leak, it seams they cost something like 4 pts, so its almost free :) 

2 attacks with a chainsword has like ~22% change to do an unsaved wound on another marine while a power sword have ~28%.

 

Point invested vs wound output is almost the same, with a smal favour for the chainsword, for a crusader squad that is! 

[BitsHammer]

Chainswords are free, so that always helps. That said, if you take a PW initiate, it's not like you're lacking quantity from other models who have Chainswords.

[theredone85]

can anyone fill me in on the disengage part works? seems like consolidating into combat might be nice, but not if the opponant can just chose to walk off and shoot you next turn?