Athrawes Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 So after having devoured my Copy of Inferno, a bit of interesting lore came up that has ramifications for our Pariah Primarchs/Legions. In the chapters discussing the Ordo Sinister Psi Titans, and the Sisters of Silence, there are a few sections concerning Pariah Space Marines, or rather the lack of them. From "interviews" with those knowledgeable about the Emperors work, and the head of the Divisio Telepathica (Of which the SoS are the Chamber militant), it's discussed that the Pariah gene is incompatible with space marine geneseed. That in cases where geneseed has been implanted in pariahs, it proved fatal or worse. They expand that this is likely due to the Psychic nature of the Emperor, and that a fractional portion of his psychic potential is imparted to all space marines through their geneseed. This is part of the reason why he created the Sisters of Silence, because he was unable to create pariah space marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Ohhh, that's, just wow. If we keep to that canon maybe our Pariah Legions could be surrpressant Legions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Drakzilla~ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Well, if we do want to follow this, it would complicate things...alot. It makes sense, but at this point it seems like we're far enough into the Pariah legion rabbit hole that the best course of action may be to ignore this particular bit of fluff. Different universe, different rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Yup, would mean to change significantly our work thx to recent developments we couldn't foresee before. We could simply take this as a political saying because in canonverse all pariah primarchs/marines failed due to other complications thst they simply said it was the reason. Hope you understan my reasoning^^ just woke up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Oh man, that's rough. I agree that we should ignore that. Would be too hard and difficult to change the basic idea of so many things in our 'verse. We could mentioned it as a political intrigue, done by the Divisio Telepathica or someone else in order to guard themselves, which ultimately failed. Just to tease FW. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm always of the mindset that works of fan fiction should depart from established lore in as few ways as possible, or else people have to suspend their disbelief to follow it. In that light I'd suggest another approach, as I feel there is a reasonable logic to FW fluff, as combining psychic geneseed with a pariah should create awful/fatal results. What if instead we change our Pariah Legions recruitment/geneseed. Instead of them seeking out Pariahs in which to implant their geneseed, why not make their pariah gene a byproduct of the specific geneseed itself (meaning they find normal Astartes candidates, and the geneseed unlocks a pariah like potential. The Emperor tried and failed to mesh standard geneseed with pariahs, but I don't believe there would be anything stopping him from trying to engineer artificial pariahs. Think of it like "diet Pariah" Half the calories, 100% of that classic soulless flavor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I thought that this way of recruiting was already the case for some of our Legions... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I believe that IS how all our pariah legions function. That's why the Grave Stalkers and Warriors of Peace have such unstable gene-seed, the pariah gene is innate within it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) That is exaclty how it works here. They don't seek pariahs out, the gene is implanted and the.primarchs deliver the.pariah gene. For example: the geneseed derived.from gwal is inactive in its standardform as when the emperor created the primarch gwal, he hid that power, but when gwals geststion pod was attscked in the warp and the.demons feasted.on his soul and body, the pariah gene activated ( just like amoebia can activate genes and deactivate to adapt to their surroundings) So when a marine is created, they first get the treatment with the genepool from terra where the gene is inactive. Only on one of the last steps( still not sure which organ i prefer the eyes) the disciple can decide to take the active gene. He would become instant pariah of a lesser level. If the inactive gene is implemented the astartes could activate it himself if he sustains deadly pain. The strongest pariahs of the legion awoke their powers that way. Just like a vaccination. You have some kind of protection but if your body fought the fight himself, then he is stronger.against.the.disease. But because of that the gene seed of the wardens is relatively stable. The warriors of peace and the grave stalkers have another implementation process. Edited February 18, 2017 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 When I first read this, my idea was that we account for the differences with the Emperor finding some Necron tech and using that to stabilize the Pariah geneseed implantation enough to create a legion. We already know he's willing to access the Webway, so he's not above quietly employing the tech of other races, and the Void Dragon being on Mars might be the avenue he needed. Or he found something in a lost part of Mars that held enough data for him to modify it for his own purposes. My other idea was that perhaps we focus on the 'worse' part of that description. The Wardens of Light have that soul-sucking face side effect. The Warriors and Stalkers both are the smallest legions thanks to the instability factor. What if we added other fluff side effects to bring it in more line with canon? One idea is having the biological timer like the Thunder Warriors had. After a certain point of time, the Pariah marine's body begins to fail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I discussed something with sigi a few weeks back. The wardens have 2 problems which could occur. First is that they can get blinded and lose their ability if they use their ability on stronger opponents like a daemon primarch for example and the other is thst as they summon the void they can get lost in it. Unable to get out from it and those poor subjects are only hollow with no soul in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I stand by the statement I made last time something like this occurred, we are writing what is essentially fan fiction, and any fanfic author should be fully aware and accepting of the risk that one day the setting's owners may make something canon that totally and utterly invalidates your fic. You either rewrite the upended part which can take a lot of work if it's even possible depending his badly it screwed you, or you stick to your guns and keep going, and I say unless we can come up with a reasonable way of neatly sidestepping the issue then we keep going. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Yeah. I think the differences are the thing which makes our universe interesting. Or why bother to make an alternate universe in the end? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4659996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Say that pariah recruits still die on implantation. Non pariah's get turned into pariahs by their gene-seed but that presents a unisue problem: as their gene-seed takes within their bodies it's at war with itself. As a result, the vast majority of recruits get killed by their own gene-seed attacking and destroying itself. A rare few however conquer it and possess suficient will power to hold it in balance for the rest of their lives. The possibility of it destroying their bodies could be like a "perils of the warp" for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 That would fit to the smaller legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 That would fit to the smaller legions. And the WoL are the odd ones out in that their gene-seed stability is wierd. Or maybe the innate calmness and pacifism means their gene-seed can't possibly attack anything :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 ? The Gaping Void At the beginning of each game, every squad with the Pariah special rule that does not also have the primarch special rule must take a LD test. If failed, the squad takes D3 wounds resolved at S10 and ignoring armour and invulnerable saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 That would fit to the smaller legions. And the WoL are the odd ones out in that their gene-seed stability is wierd. Or maybe the innate calmness and pacifism means their gene-seed can't possibly attack anything :P Or because an inactive gen can't act because it is inactive. And those who are implanted with a preactive geneseed from caerbannog origins don't suffer cuz the activated form is just a weak one. Enough for a twisted brohood but not enough to become a pariah prime. Those who become pariah prime already endured a fight. Against death^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 ? The Gaping Void At the beginning of each game, every squad with the Pariah special rule that does not also have the primarch special rule must take a LD test. If failed, the squad takes D3 wounds resolved at S10 and ignoring armour and invulnerable saves. I am uncomfortable with having any rule penalties without the permission of Grifft, Mikhal, and Drak. They deserve some say before we take that route. I do agree that since the Pariah geneseed begins dormant that would explain the WoL's relative stability. At this point, I'm actually more wary of the Pariahmarchs as opposed to the marines. Koschei and Gwal are safe since they were not created as Pariahs from the get-go. Jade and K'awil are a different matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Drakzilla~ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I wouldn't be averse to a drawback, but the Pariah rules are already so complex (not bad in any way, just complex) that it might make things more convoluted. Speaking for the Jade General, if we really want to alter the fluff to suit this new info, he could potentially be altered to a non-pariah. Perhaps the Pariahs in his legion are the result of his own experiments in inserting the gene into the marines, rather than being present in the geneseed itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I wouldn't be averse to a drawback, but the Pariah rules are already so complex (not bad in any way, just complex) that it might make things more convoluted. Speaking for the Jade General, if we really want to alter the fluff to suit this new info, he could potentially be altered to a non-pariah. Perhaps the Pariahs in his legion are the result of his own experiments in inserting the gene into the marines, rather than being present in the geneseed itself. Hmmmm, yeah. I couldn't help but think that we couldn't remove Jade from being a Pariah without removing his biggest goal, but that's not true is it? He can still be the same cold pragmatist who believes Pariahs are the key to safeguarding to Humanity without being one. The only thing that is wrecked in BotL is that one story I wrote about him and Alex teaming up, and Jade's strategic value as a Pariah drops a bit. But if he has Pariah marines that safeguards the latter, and the former was only a single post, so no big loss there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Drakzilla~ Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Maybe before the Emperor came, many of the Warlords of Jin were powerful and corrupt psykers who used their power to subjugate the people. This could shape Jade to see that cutting off humanity's reliance on psykers and the Warp is the best way to achieve true peace, and that they need Warriors who are an anathema to these powers. Plus, crunch-wise, this could free up some points for Jade to have either some more tactical potential, or to be even more of a beatstick. And I'm sure Jade could gather enough Null-marines to serve as sufficient bodyguards for Alex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 That could work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 That feels a little Barbarus. Perhaps Jade saw a severe plague of daemonic possessions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Drakzilla~ Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Well, maybe it could be a mix. Regional warlords controlling the populace with daemonic possession and summoning, or outright psychic control. That way it's a mix of "warring kingdoms" vibe with an evil spirit twist from Chinese folklore and superstition. Having the Pariahs of the Warriors be the result of genetic tampering on Jade's part also brings up an interesting dynamic. All of the XVIIth's pariahs could be created (or altered) directly by Jade himself, making for a relationship similar to that of the Custodes and the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331122-information-on-the-pariah-gene-from-inferno/#findComment-4660449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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