The Red Angel Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 So, a friend in my local gaming group sports a legio custodes army with sisters. I'm having a hard time picturing a weak spot with them? I roll a world eaters army in 3 spartans in 3k points, yet that seems like my biggest defence, sitting in the Spartan. Could anyone point out potential counters? Best i've seen is Gal Vorbak and Getting the charge with terminators preferable armed with stormshields. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Shoot them to death. Plasma support squads / veterans with combimeltas, a lancer for those spear and sword knights and eveverything with a st10 ap2 plate. Best thing, as always.. levys with 2 ccw, rending, fearless and feel no pain via allies.. one block of 50 ist 100 points and will rend any unit it touches to death or tarpits it for the rest of the game.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Destroyers and forgelords with rad grenades and rad missiles. Also by extension there's a death guard rite and some blackshields that allow others to have rad nades too. Combined with fist wielding terminators rad grenades from a forgelord will help make a bloody mess of the custodes you face. The rad missiles have the chance of perma reducing the toughness of custodes making what remains much easier to kill. Vindicators, medusa, and Typhon will do what they where made to. Str 10 plates all game long is a win. Phopshex and plasma weapons for AP2 loveliness And mobbing them. Particularly with weapons that stand a better chance to wound. Fury of the legion with a full squad of 20 dudes would do something, chainaxe dudes with your WE on the charge pour some serious dice onto their armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 You could go for the hard counter to everything: rapier artillery. (Nevermind it wouldn't be marvelous... it would still work). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Volkite Weapons. It's like massed Bolter fire against Terminators and as usefull. Worked for me quite well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen11 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Well, sitting in spartans might not be safe as it sounds...just immagine 18 jet bikes fireing d3 lascannon shots each, usually in flanks of spartan to bypass flare shield...and after that there is still 2k custodes behind them...I guess those spartans would last turn, or two... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Only douches will play 18 jetbikes. What kind of "friends" do you have that you think that will be the usual build? It only takes the normal crap a Custodes army can bring to wreak a Spartan. An please don't tell anyone to buy and play Destroyers. They're a horrible unit, helterskater. You can shoot the dudes without shields with Lascannons. And Plasma. Or CHOOOM CHOOOM POWER Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Phosphex Quad Mortars, they require a seige breaker, though which doesn't synergize very well with WE. Medusas, Vindicators, Typhons all good tank options, full Cortus Talons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why Phosphex? It only has AP3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think HS is on track. Jump Moritat and Destroyers are quick and can hide easy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 And how will they beat Custodes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why Phosphex? It only has AP3. To be honest regular frag might be better since you can get more saves rolls being made. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen11 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I would not bet on it, since you can move phosphex still 2'', so it's way better than just frag, and with 3'' coherency and shrieks, I would not count on making any significant number of 2+ saves tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Plasma support squads , typhons , and vindicators , I think youll need to saturate armor in order to avoid having it just torn in half by their plethora of anti armor options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 A lot of terrible terrible advice in here. Destroyers? Phosphex rapiers? Dreadnoughts? All those things do minimal damage and then die. Leviathans may do something if they reach combat but will also die to S10 AP1 fists (while needing 5s to hit sentinels). They have no weaknesses except maybe model count and occasionally getting a bad streak of Look Out Sir rolls. They are the master race. Spam volume AP2 in every single slot you fill and pray to RNGesus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Its true there really isn't much you can do in terms of hard counters... Kill their troops and play for objectives, FW really did a number on covering all of their weaknesses for free or very little cost. If you go second against Custodes maybe just reserve your whole army and limit the amount of turns they get to do damage against you. They really did a number with Inferno.Anyone have a chance to do some math on a Lancer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 The counter depends on the unit really. If it's sentinels with shields ap means nothing and it's just down to volume of fire and some luck. With Guardians as others have said, lc, plasma, and madusa are probably the best bet. Personally I like the falcion, first we got feedback and now a real reason to aim it and troops and hope for a 6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 grav imploder myrmidon destructors Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 So to summarize the suggestions so far... Fury of the Legion... HAHAHAHAH, starting off with a real good joke. A super situational ability that your opponent has to let you perform (instead of just charging and sweeping the unit in a single phase), that isn't even that effective vs. Legion opponents much less the best army in the game. 40 bolter shots deal 1.48 wounds to a Custodes squad. Fantastic. Fail. Destroyers... no lets just stop right there, let's not throw the least point-effective Marine unit in the game against the most point-effective unit in the game that is designed to kill Marine units. Rad missiles only affect one model that they successfully wound (yay. so you reduced one guy to T4 W1 by making a 5+ wound roll and them failing their 2+ save, they are still T5 for majority toughness, you've accomplished nothing!). So this is just a terrible, awful idea and should not even be countenanced. Fail Rad grenades... if talking about a regular squad with a powerfist sgt and rad grenades, the Sgt will be challenged out and murdered (or he will decline and not participate in the battle). Fail. Phosphex mortars... no, extra coherency distance, shrike barrage disruption, and AP3 vs. 2+ saves. This is a non-starter. Fail. Terminators with powerfists AND a forgelord with rad grenades. Finally you have a unit that may mathematically trade casualties with Custodes. Problem is you've now spent more points than they did, to tarpit ONE UNIT. How many terminators with forgelords can you really bring? You also face the same challenge issue here as well, although at least there is an ablative Sgt with an invulnerable save. Conditional pass. Medusae... nice profile, the coherency, shrikes, and invulnerable saves makes it very unreliable. If a Medusa kills one guy with a shooting attack, you're doing well. Conditional Pass. Vindicators... better than the above due to not being barrage, although now shorter range and thus fewer opportunities to fire. Custodes are really really really good at blowing up tanks at medium range, so screen them with Rhinos or something. Pass. Typhon... basically a big fat vindicator that ignores cover. Given difficulty of screening and quality of Custodes shooting, and the fact that you may again only kill one model on a good day, you may be better off just bringing lots of Vindicators instead. Still, good enough. Pass. Marksmen Veterans with combi-plasma... finally, a relatively cheap model with volume of AP2 fire. Pass. So you're looking at something like this if you want a counter. HQ: Delegatus, Chosen Duty Rite of War Troops: 10x marksmen veterans, 2 plasma-guns, 8x combi-plasma, Rhino Troops: as above Troops: as above Troops: as above Troops: as above Troops: as above Heavy Support: Vindicators Heavy Support: More Vindicators Heavy Support: Even more Vindicators Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4671990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturguard Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 And that game looks like alot of fun.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4672071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 And that game looks like alot of fun....And that is the main issue I have with Custodes. As an allied force they are cool. Dangerous as :cuss, but still beatable. But as an army on their own they become a force you can not beat with your regular army. You HAVE to tailor a list for beating them and that sucks. I don't want to buy models for one occasion in which I play a boring list only to have a chance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4672111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 ^ Pretty much. I was going to collect them full-force, but now may just get the occasional model for painting. I will only play with/against primary detachment Custodes if it's a scenario and the other player has like 50% more points and specific non-combat objectives to accomplish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4672138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 So, what would balance Custodes? If we complain enough to FW it may get addressed :P It seems like the Sentinels definitely need a higher base squad cost, and the Hetaeron and their Praesidium Shield option could see some price hikes. Possibly hike the cost on the Tribune? A small bump on the Calladius? And lastly, the jetbikes. I think that's it? The scary thing is that the Custodes are probably going to receive an assault transport in the form of a flyer, making the list even harder to counter in the future. And we have no inkling of what their bigger Dreadnought can do yet, either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4672184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I don't pretend do know the cost sweet spot, or whether it is the individual abilities that need to be toned down. Maybe make them chosen warriors instead of characters? Shieds maybe need to lose the -1 to hit? Maybe not have 9-attack Contemptors? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4672211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Contemptor that hits as strong as 40k Guilliman is just plain silly. That is the first thing to fix. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/#findComment-4672213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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