Withershadow Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Biggest thing will still be a Lancer, as a single bomb per round will do next to nothing and they can't retreat by choice (if i'm informed correctly, only got the internet stats). 10 Volkites will do 40 shots, 26 hits, 18 wounds, 3 wounds after saves.. hum nope. And you know, they are pretty much the best when it comes to hits with high strengh but but high ap.. so keep any bolter ideas or something like this at home. They aren't fearless, if that's what you mean, so they can retreat and fall back. The banner just gives them re-rolls. That actually brings up one potentially vulnerable point (not to be confused by weakness) of the Custodes infantry, they aren't immune to leadership shenanigans. So for example Night Lords with Curze's fear boost. At -2 anything except Haeteron Guard fail ~42% of the time. Of course a banner really brings this down and forces Fear tests in return. Fear has been a rarely used rule so I am rusty on it, but I distinctly remember a statement saying that models which cause fear are not themselves immune to fear. In this theme, I think Night Lords may actually fare better than most vs. the Custodes, since the Custodes infantry's small numbers mean they will be outnumbered (at least initially... *rimshot*), so that's 4+ to hit even shielded Custodes, and 3+ to hit everyone else. The a WS5 Night Lord with the night fight initiative bonus will strike at the same time as Custodes, and the improved cover from night fight would blunt some of their shooting. Only the Dreadnoughts and sisters' transport have a searchlight in their army list. Lancer deals instant death and has a good number of attacks on the charge, so it could conceivably wipe out a unit of 3. Any more than that, and you'll be getting smacked with a S10 AP1 fist, but the 4++ should keep you going. Regarding volkite, I don't think anyone would take a 10-man heavy support unit without some kind of accuracy buff (master of signal or ammo dump at least). Re-rolling 1s to hit would result in 40 shots dealing 31 hits, which would result in 20 wounds, ~3.46 after saves, extra deflagrate 1-2 hits unlikely to do much, but let's average it up and say 2 guys dead. That's actually not bad considering that's 140 or so points, and we all know what actually happens when you roll 20 saving throws. I don't know about you, but I seem to roll quite a few more 1s when that many dice hit the table. As an aside, with preferred enemy from Alpharius, AL Culverin squad deals the same 31 hits, and wounding 24 times. That's a lot of fickle fate to tempt. Interceptor would be very useful here too, because the Custodes' obvious counter is to deepstrike nearby, thus only allowing you one shooting phase before they murder you next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 According to the heresy online calculator that mean 4.051 dead custodes. However, it also says that 10 sniper vets (2 HB) would only kill 1.157 custodes. Both examples with shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 You mean wounds, not casualties. They are 2 wounds a pop. 3 for haeteron guard. Shields do nothing essentially vs. volkite. I do not trust online calculators. :P 10 marksmen veterans with no upgrades generate 2.2 AP2 wounds (1.48 vs refractor, ~1 vs shield). They also generate 4.4 AP5 wounds, so maybe another unsaved wound. Again, these are just statistical averages, vagaries of dice will vary wildly, as will various modifiers in the mix. For example, Imperial Fists and Sons of Horus do 2.8 AP2 and 5.5 AP5 wounds. Alpha Legion with Alpharius deal 3 AP2 wounds and 6 AP5 wounds. Thousand Sons Divination Veterans with asphyx shells deal 4.5 AP2 wounds and 8.8 regular wounds. So the lesson of the story is... don't mess with Thousand Sons? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 No, models lost. I assumed 2W per custie T5, 2+/4++. ShootingAttacker Group 1 vs Defender Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well Heresy online calculator gave a way off calculations for me with plasma against Custodes too so I currently trust my own calculations more and Withershadow's calculations seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 4++ not really reflective of typical targets, that's just Aquilon terminators. They either will have a shield (~56.4% chance to save), or will not (~33% to save). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well, as I'm not very fond of my calculations, I used what I had at my disposal :P Another toy that may bring some custodes down would be the leviathan with flux bombard, (phosphex?) and snippy claw, in paper at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellex_The_Thanatar Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Btw custodes are immune to fear and pinning. So curze shenanigans are minimized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Ah yes, found the entry, and they don't suffer leadership modifiers. So nevermind, they don't have that vulnerability at all, lol. I did think it was weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Every player in our group had at least one unit of Custodes running from table in almost every game. So maybe is fate on our side at least. That is not much but it is something. ;) I made good results with Volkites. It's kinda like Bolters against regular Terminators. Not great but it's all about lots and lots of dice. World Eaters TSS with Volkite Chargers and Forgelord are quite good to if ya give 'em addition Chainaxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 How perform inductees against them? Anyone tried/did the math on levy squads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I didn't play Inductii. Just regular WE TSS with Chainaxes and they did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Mechanicum phosphex actually works alright. It's direct fire and gets the adjustment move, so as accurate as ever, and it's AP2. Coherency is still a problem but csn be hampered in turn by terrain, tank shocks and close combats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Every player in our group had at least one unit of Custodes running from table in almost every game. So maybe is fate on our side at least. That is not much but it is something. ;) I made good results with Volkites. It's kinda like Bolters against regular Terminators. Not great but it's all about lots and lots of dice. World Eaters TSS with Volkite Chargers and Forgelord are quite good to if ya give 'em addition Chainaxes. On the bright side you can now run anti-custodes stuff in your list and no one can tell you your list tailoring. So what if we want to fight fire with Fire? Do custodes have any good anti custodes gear? I've still got my BOP stuff so just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
em_en_oh_pee Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Btw custodes are immune to fear and pinning. So curze shenanigans are minimized. No biggie. Talent for Murder will help a lot, especially against the shields. I say just drown them in wounds if possible. At least, that is what I keep telling myself I will do with my Terror Assault list... because I got literally no other options! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Btw custodes are immune to fear and pinning. So curze shenanigans are minimized. No biggie. Talent for Murder will help a lot, especially against the shields. I say just drown them in wounds if possible. At least, that is what I keep telling myself I will do with my Terror Assault list... because I got literally no other options! :D In the go big or go home category: Load up 15 night raptors and stick a chaplain with them and gun for the t1 (extreme range) or t2 (pray to Rngesus for night fight) charge. Outnumber custodes every time, and throw in some axes on the regular guys. Then purchase a small bucket for your dice rolling and have your lucky d3 to hand. Maximum output 75 dice not including chappy with re rolls. And the hammer of wrath. So 90 dice. Against non shield targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Btw custodes are immune to fear and pinning. So curze shenanigans are minimized. No biggie. Talent for Murder will help a lot, especially against the shields. I say just drown them in wounds if possible. At least, that is what I keep telling myself I will do with my Terror Assault list... because I got literally no other options! :D Just remember talent for murder applies at your initiative and custodes are bulky so count for 2 models. So if they kill enough they will outnumber you which is very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Maybe this is silly but... Night Lords Sky Hunter Phalanx Everything is very bulky, NL command squad on jets is awesome, as are the full plasma heavy support jets. Xiphons are also AP2 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Btw custodes are immune to fear and pinning. So curze shenanigans are minimized. No biggie. Talent for Murder will help a lot, especially against the shields. I say just drown them in wounds if possible. At least, that is what I keep telling myself I will do with my Terror Assault list... because I got literally no other options! Just remember talent for murder applies at your initiative and custodes are bulky so count for 2 models. So if they kill enough they will outnumber you which is very possible. They don't count. Only sons of horus have the caveat that enemies count bulky and very bulky for outnumbering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 · Hidden by Slips, March 8, 2017 - No reason given Hidden by Slips, March 8, 2017 - No reason given S 10 ap2 Link to comment
Runefyre Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Btw custodes are immune to fear and pinning. So curze shenanigans are minimized. No biggie. Talent for Murder will help a lot, especially against the shields. I say just drown them in wounds if possible. At least, that is what I keep telling myself I will do with my Terror Assault list... because I got literally no other options! Just remember talent for murder applies at your initiative and custodes are bulky so count for 2 models. So if they kill enough they will outnumber you which is very possible. They don't count. Only sons of horus have the caveat that enemies count bulky and very bulky for outnumbering Yes they do. From the Legions book: A Talent for Murder:If a unit or units of models with the Legiones Astartes (Night Lords) special rule outnumber one or more enemy infantry units during any Initiative step in which they fight in an assault, they gain +1 To Hit and To Wound. Bulky models count as two models and Very Bulky models as three models for the purposes of working out when the Night Lords outnumber their victims. (Emphasis added) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 You didn't read what I wrote. That is indeed what the NL rule says. In comparison the SoH rule says " *Count Bulky models on both sides..." One tells you to count enemies, the other does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angmarred Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 You didn't read what I wrote. That is indeed what the NL rule says. In comparison the SoH rule says " *Count Bulky models on both sides..." One tells you to count enemies, the other does not. I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. The two rules are worded differently. It say the same thing. Bulky counts as 2 in both sides for both legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vogon Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 One thought I had was an Airborne assault type force. With the lack of anti-aircraft in a Custodes army I was thinking put all infantry in Storm Eagles and fill the heavy support with fire raptors. Fly around shooting the ground based Custodes and land late in the game to claim objectives with the troops. Hopefully all the airborne shooting will have thinned out the opposition and I think it sounds quite thematic for my Raven Guard. Cheers Vogon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'd love to see how a full blob of black shield mauraders and a rad nad Reaver lord and apothecary all with chymeriae go up against some custodoes. They'll probably die miserably but they should at least drag down a few golden boys with them :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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