Legio Custodes Weaknesses?

[Bythehololight]

I am trying to work out some tactics for taking on custodes.

My main thoughts are melta or plasma guns?

As well as get into combat with them asap, or keep them as a distance and shot it out?

Possible some air cover, graviton rapier and heavy weapon squad with volkite culverin

[lanceqi]

I'm pretty sure there is already a similar topic in this section. You can find tons of things in that.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page-9?do=findComment&comment=4691007

[Rabidbunneh]

What Legion do you do? I'd advise against close combat as the custodes excel in that area.unless you are charging 2+ saves into guard so they can't get their charge bonus, try shooting them down and only charge to finish off deleted units.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Plasma guns over melta every time verses custodes, since they are t5 melta guns are not going to ID them. Plasma on the other hand gets twice the number of shots and still wounds on +2, so really easy choice. Massed plasma is certainly one of the best ways to deal with custodes. 

 

There's almost no legion elite units that can actually go toe to toe with custodes in a fight, so I wouldn't recommend getting into  an assault. Certain legions like NL, SoH and WE might be able to drown them in a high number of attacks from big units like assault marines/inductii, but if you're not fielding one of those legions I'd probably avoid close combat. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Cataphractii Terminators work fine too. Guardian spear dudes can't kill you if they don't charge, and Sentinels can only kill you with their own powerfist that goes same time. Stay away from Hetaeron Guard with paragon blades though, they will slice you to ribbons. 

[Laughingman]

Might be worth taking some legion apothecaries, attach to a plasma support squads and giving them augury scanners. Helpful for discouraging deep striking custodies from getting to close to your plasma units. 

 

In terms of close combat the only elite unit I can think that has a chance without an extremely large number of attacks is phoenix terminators who I believe have the potential with sonic streakers to strike first on the charge

[Raktra]

Sonic Shriekers just lower WS now, still handy but you'll not be swinging first.

[Laughingman]

I see, I thought the +1 initiative from ​Flawless execution stacked with the +1I Sudden Strike rule creating a I6 on the charge.

[Rangaman]

Yes the modifiers stack for Pheonix Terminators so they would be I6 on the charge, atleast thats how I've understood it.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Phoenix terminators are definetly i6 on the charge. Fighting against custodes is the one time that rule actually matters. Of course if they don't get the charge off the combat isn't going to go that well. 

[Raktra]

I see, I thought the +1 initiative from ​Flawless execution stacked with the +1I Sudden Strike rule creating a I6 on the charge.

Oh yeah that works, it'll just be same-time strike rather than before the 'stodes. That's all I meant.

[StaggerLee]

I keep facing a local guy who runs custodes + sisters at 2.5k and its just plain nasty. it footslogs, but its still horrible to face....

 

HQ

Valdor

Sisters of Silence Excruciatus Cadre with power swords 

Tribune with digital lasers, praesidium shield, cyber-familiar and paragon 

spear 

 

Elites

Legio Custodes Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought with achillus dreadspear with 

in-built corvae las-pulser 

 

Troops

Custodian Guard Squad 

Custodian Guard Squad 

Sentinel Guard Squad 

Sisters of Silence Vigilator Cadre 

Sisters of Silence Vigilator Cadre 

 

Fast Attack

Pallas 

Sisters of Silence Seeker Cadre 

 

Heavy Support

4x Sagittarum Guard 

Caladius Grav-Tank with armoured ceramite 

Contemptor-Galatus dreadnought 

 

 

He tends to deep strike the sagittarum guard and one of the custodes squads with valdor, and the sagittarum guard usually take out primarchs retinues or vehicles. And those dreads.... they are SO hard to deal with.

[Laughingman]

A couple of vultarax might be able to glance to death (with haywire) most of the armor and dreadnought in a couple of turns with impunity. Might be worth looking into. If you can keep it alive (aka surround it with intercepting plasma squads or myrmidon destructors with gravition imploders) a Malcador Infernus with chem munitions (S3, Ap2, Poisoned 2+ Hellstorm, Armorbane, Torrent) could potentially make life hard for footslogging custodes.

[disease]

I've been thinking... would Solar be a good threat? I mean they can take lots of dracosans for tough transports that pack a punch, lots of high strength shooting, and they wern't going to put up a fight in CC anyway which negates the custodes main strength?

[Laughingman]

Other ideas: Dark angels have the ability to take stasis shells (upgrade to a missile or grenade launcher,-1I and -1WS if hit, last until end of turn) anyone know if the effect stacks? Could potentially create a situation where a command squad and HQ could strike first? The molecular acid shells could be fun as well (poisoned 2+ AP D6).

[Purge the Daemon]

I've been thinking... would Solar be a good threat? I mean they can take lots of dracosans for tough transports that pack a punch, lots of high strength shooting, and they wern't going to put up a fight in CC anyway which negates the custodes main strength?

Yeah solar auxiliary seem very strong to me and just as much so vs custodes. Draconian demolisher cannons are pure filth the Malcador internist with chem munitions eats them up nice and we'll to. They also bring a lot of armour and can take many cheap units to feed and out maneuver the custodes. I'd say sa are a very good match up vs them but they are a good match vs all things just super uncommon due to the $ cost.

[Runefyre]

Other ideas: Dark angels have the ability to take stasis shells (upgrade to a missile or grenade launcher,-1I and -1WS if hit, last until end of turn) anyone know if the effect stacks? Could potentially create a situation where a command squad and HQ could strike first? The molecular acid shells could be fun as well (poisoned 2+ AP D6).

(thankfully) stasis shells don't stack, but that certainly is a good option to even the odds of combat.

 

But I suspect it will become more useful when Dark Angels get their own legion-specific terminators (with probably two wounds a piece and WS5).

[em_en_oh_pee]

 

I've been thinking... would Solar be a good threat? I mean they can take lots of dracosans for tough transports that pack a punch, lots of high strength shooting, and they wern't going to put up a fight in CC anyway which negates the custodes main strength?

Yeah solar auxiliary seem very strong to me and just as much so vs custodes. Draconian demolisher cannons are pure filth the Malcador internist with chem munitions eats them up nice and we'll to. They also bring a lot of armour and can take many cheap units to feed and out maneuver the custodes. I'd say sa are a very good match up vs them but they are a good match vs all things just super uncommon due to the $ cost.

 

 

All templates/blasts aren't as good though, thanks to that 3" coherency. A smart opponent will make your shots much, much less good that way. Though still, those are good options. SA has so much firepower, which is what counts against the melee-oriented Custodes. 

[Laughingman]

More ideas: Potentially a Legio Cybernetica cohort with a archmagos-dominus equipped with the cortica primus could cast Rite of Celerity (+2 initiative) on a unit of melee oriented battle automata (Arlatax or Domitar) and get them swinging at initiative 7 and 6 respectively with the Cybernetica buff (+1 initiative).

[Withershadow]

Archmagos Dominus is terrible, the worst HQ option we got. Relics are now pretty much no go anywhere. I'm trying to kickstart a Conquest campaign in my local area, so we can fight for relics and have them actually matter.

[Laughingman]

I agree he is not the best HQ for the mechancium far from it.  With regards to the relic I would argue that if your opponent is packing a tank-tribune ( with a rerollable 3+ invulnerable save) then you are entitled to bring whatever relic you want, cheese begets cheese. 

 

Alternatively you can take Anacharis Scoria as a cybernetica HQ with his special entourage of Arlatax. Cast Rite of the beast (+1 initiative, reroll to hits,etc ) and strike at I6 with the arlatax. That is in addition to the Scoria himself who is a beast with his cane that does D3 AP2 wounds per successful hit, No IWND or FNP rolls allowed...   

[SkimaskMohawk]

They're taking a unit that's completely allowed in any 2000+ games, so you're entitled to take something thats made for campaign play and explicitly says you need opponents permission and isn't part of a standard list?

 

The mechanicum relic is one of the most overpowered as well; their powers were never meant to apply to everything; +2 attacks and heal on no modifiers underline that.

 

Scoria only allows access to 1 Arlatax and isn't the greatest to put with arlatax simply because of the speed difference. He's also just a poor matchup for a tankbune in general; even with the charge and Rite, he gets 2.75 hits, which averages out to 5 wounds generated and .5 inflicted. The tankbune does the same amount of damage back, but the whole point is scoria isnt eating the rest of your army in combat

[Withershadow]

I would be interested to see Valdor vs Scoria. May have to dice it out a few times to see what would happen.

 

Depending on how many Adrathic weapons the Custodes player brought, any automata may be in for a bad time. Vultarax remain a strong choice due to being practically untouchable and erasing all of their vehicles and Dreadnoughts. Vorax in Cybernetica and under Rite of the Beast are I6. The Castellax are probably better off keeping their distance unless you run them with siege breakers.

[Laughingman]

My bad with the homoclex, the poster above is indeed correct, only one is allowed, though rereading the rules for Rite of the beast rule it appears to effect an "entire unit" so I6 Arlatax units are still a thing. I also agree that Scoria is better used mulching regular units 99% of the time. We can agree to disagree with regards to relic though. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Scoria's 'Rite of the Beast' explicitly affects all Cybernetica Cortex models in the unit. So it does affect all three Arlatax for example. Custodes still swing same time unless packing gauntlets due to 'Preternatural Skill', but that can't be helped unless you Concuss them somehow prior to charging. Also, Arlatax are going to have to win through causing wounds, because the claws can't Instant Death Custodians. Given than, I'd probably use the arc flail, as Concussive will mean you can swing first the second round of combat (assuming you survive the first). 

 

I think Valdor comes out on top, just because he's faster each time and the ID wounds will turn off Scoria's FNP. I'm not sure how Hetaeron Guard can be dealt with reliably outside of Ordo Reductor (swap the normal Medusa Siege Battery for cheaper Demolishers) or a Knight FYI. They're just too tough to most Mechanicum weapons, and by the time you kill 1-2 they're in your face eating your army with paragon blades. Siege Wrecker Castellax still have to survive getting stabbed by guardian spears/paragon blades or being shot with adrathic/heliothermic weapons. Grav-Myrmidons are an option, but you'll need the Triaros to not die on the way in delivering them. 

 

I've never seen people use the Relics, mainly due to salt about Moritats with nanyte blasters or the teleport backpack one. And yeah, the Arch-Dominus is the worst HQ for Mechanicum by a large margin, so its questionable even if your opponent is cool with it.