Legio Custodes Weaknesses?

[Rabidbunneh]

I don't think Valdor or the Tankibune would kill a Primarch, they'll just hold it up whilst the rest of the army does its thing. Valdor will chew his way through the Primarch's bodyguard though as he forces successful invulnerable saves to be rerolled and install deaths on a 4+ to wound that will get around a Primus Medicae being in the squad.

[Charlo]

So can Valdor 1 on 1 a primarch?

 

Garro on Facebook had his Valdor kill [a clone of] Alpharius at the weekend...

[Raktra]

Alpharius is a bit of a wimp to be fair.

[Baluc]

Alpharius is a bit of a wimp to be fair.

Understatement of 2017?

You really do need to keep Custodes out of combat, it is where they are most efficient. You actually need to keep moving if you are too static they will pick off your support and then go for your scoring.

The best way to beat a custodies units is to dbl team it with units. Put a volley in and charge with something with a 2+. You just need to shift the math enough that you can kill the unit in your turn. Since Custodes are so strong you need to be able to win the movement phase, which means turn 1, things like Jetbikes, and pallas need to die regardless of what you need to sacrifice to get it done.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Your games don't count because apparently a 5-man destroyer squad+morotat never gets shot at and just murders their whole list single-handedly.

I forgot to mention I play on tables with some LoS blocking terrain.

[Gorgoff]

 

Your games don't count because apparently a 5-man destroyer squad+morotat never gets shot at and just murders their whole list single-handedly.

I forgot to mention I play on tables with some LoS blocking terrain.

That is... madness! ;)

We too.

Thing like jump infantry are way more efficient in that kind of environment. And more fun.

[Brother Aiwass]

Your games don't count because apparently a 5-man destroyer squad+morotat never gets shot at and just murders their whole list single-handedly.

I forgot to mention I play on tables with some LoS blocking terrain.

That is... madness!

We too.

Thing like jump infantry are way more efficient in that kind of environment. And more fun.

How dare you to actually play the game? HERESY!

[Baluc]

 

Your games don't count because apparently a 5-man destroyer squad+morotat never gets shot at and just murders their whole list single-handedly.

I forgot to mention I play on tables with some LoS blocking terrain.

 

Nobody owns a Whirlwind scorpius? Its like the best target for it...

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That is what the Levi in the DDP is for taking out.

[Baluc]

That is what the Levi in the DDP is for taking out.

 

450 to take out a 115 tank to save a unit that is mediocre... Assuming ofcourse that the Scorpius isn't behind terrain where the long and short board edge meet. Can you understand why I'm skeptical? I mean any army can beat a mediocre general at the end of the day I suppose. I'm curious how closed is you meta? 2-4 players?

[helterskelter]

show me a custodes list that contains a whirlwind scorpius?

I don't know what you're trying to do, but we've been given an example of a legion list beating a custodes list at equal points, but your mediocre general point throws me? Is that saying any of us running a legion list could beat custodes or are you trying to bring another frater into Ill repute because you didn't like the result or units he used to achieve victory?

[Baluc]

show me a custodes list that contains a whirlwind scorpius?

I don't know what you're trying to do, but we've been given an example of a legion list beating a custodes list at equal points, but your mediocre general point throws me? Is that saying any of us running a legion list could beat custodes or are you trying to bring another frater into Ill repute because you didn't like the result or units he used to achieve victory?

 

If the idea of the tactica is to help players find ways to navigate a brand new faction in the meta, I don't see how making anecdotal claims about units that aren't even good enough to use against existing factions is helpful. Its actually worse in a small meta because its only takes 1 player to make a unit selection change to completely negate the time, money and effort required to build and paint a new unit.

 

Rather this new faction is only going to shift the units on the margins, units and tactics that are already good but suddenly have increased importance when list crafting. For example medusa tanks or vindicators, are excellent but not strictly the best unit choice in a competitive heavy support slot. If you like many are now faced with Legio custodes armies you may want to reconsider that level of unit in face of a changing meta. Custodes aren't re-writing what is good, useful unit and what is broken beyond consistent use.

 

The description of a mediocre general is the player who makes deployment issues that increase the value of certain units. For example if you are going to use a drop Levi to kill my scoprius you are going to accept it is going to play little part in the rest of the game. That is a strong tactical choice, if you don't consider that eventuality when deploying your artillery tank you are a mediocre general and will probably lose anyway. Between equal generals that is the level of decision making that usually determines the winner. If that brings other board members into ill-repute perhaps the issue is the level of thought they are putting into their in-game decisions and not me pointing it out. 

 

Edit**

 

I have no problem discussing how to make units useful. I'd like nothing more, but the topic of this thread is about dealing with custodes. 

[helterskelter]

And black Orange dealt with them. But there's some trouble accepting this fact?

[Baluc]

And black Orange dealt with them. But there's some trouble accepting this fact?

 

If that is your point of view why even come to a tactica isn't a plog more your speed?

[helterskelter]

 

 

And black Orange dealt with them. But there's some trouble accepting this fact?

If that is your point of view why even come to a tactica isn't a plog more your speed?

Funnily enough I suggested on the very first page one of the units that found some success in the victory. Two in fact. So I maybe should retreat to the plogs as I appear to be ahead of the curve.

[Withershadow]

Helter, I know you are still heavily triggered from a couple of pages ago, but please give up the battle on this. Destroyers are not the go-to infantry choice to deal with anything, much less Custodes. I've read some of Black Orange's battle reports on his blog, but I will withhold further comment since people are getting real sensitive around here.

[helterskelter]

I'd love to be triggered over toy soldiers, I'd also like to be quoted correctly. If you're going to make it personal do it right ;)

[Baluc]

Helter, I know you are still heavily triggered from a couple of pages ago, but please give up the battle on this. Destroyers are not the go-to infantry choice to deal with anything, much less Custodes. I've read some of Black Orange's battle reports on his blog, but I will withhold further comment since people are getting real sensitive around here.

Its alright Withershadow apparently he's been using destroyers to fight Firedrakes and Red Butchers as well this whole time....

[Brother Aiwass]

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/drop-in-triggers.jpg

 

Ok, there's plenty of triggers for everybody.

 

Now relax, and go out to kill some pesky custodes before a mod close this thread. Thank you :)

[Lord Blackwood]

Destroyers are too fragile with too short an effective range.

 

I feel skeptical that they would do much without being ripped apart adding in thier point density I only doubt it more

 

I still like the idea of Knights and ap2 shooting in volume

 

I've been working on my plasma support squad since I have 3 vindicators And a Typhon already

 

Anyone have the math on say sniper vets ?

[norngahl]

SoH Sniper Vets hit on 2s.. so.. 20 shots, 17 hits, 14 wounds, roughly 5 wounds after saves vs shields or 9-10 wounds vs spears.

 

Other legions vets.. 20 shots, 14 hits, 12 wounds, 4 wounds after saves vs shields or 8 wounds vs spears.

 

Same goes for support squads. But for cleaning up rests or eating small squads they aren't bad.. Considering they are a ton of points as well and your veterans are a troop choice via PotL.

 

Biggest thing will still be a Lancer, as a single bomb per round will do next to nothing and they can't retreat by choice (if i'm informed correctly, only got the internet stats).

 

10 Volkites will do 40 shots, 26 hits, 18 wounds, 3 wounds after saves.. hum nope. And you know, they are pretty much the best when it comes to hits with high strengh but but high ap.. so keep any bolter ideas or something like this at home.

 

50 levys, let 30 attack.. 90 attacks, 50 hits, 8 wounds, 3 wounds after saves vs shields oe 5-6 wounds vs spears.. not that bad when you consoder they are only 100 points and will tie them up for the upcoming rounds.

[Purge the Daemon]

Destroyers are too fragile with too short an effective range.

 

I feel skeptical that they would do much without being ripped apart adding in thier point density I only doubt it more

 

I still like the idea of Knights and ap2 shooting in volume

 

I've been working on my plasma support squad since I have 3 vindicators And a Typhon already

 

Anyone have the math on say sniper vets ?

Sniper vets vs custodes like vs mechanicum are by far the best troop choice and even a good non troop choice.

 

They far outpace marines due to the ap2 on 6s and the fact you don't have to wound on 5s.

[Slips]

=][=

 

If you're unable to debate back and forth with other frater in a respectful manner and tone, don't even bother posting.

 

From this point on, no second chances.

 

Disagreement is fine but if part of the point you're making requires you to denigrate or disparage another party then doing so will lead to a very short stay on this forum.

 

Respect your fellow Frater even if you don't agree with them.

 

=][=

[Brother Aiwass]

SoH Sniper Vets hit on 2s.. so.. 20 shots, 17 hits, 14 wounds, roughly 5 wounds after saves vs shields or 9-10 wounds vs spears.

 

Other legions vets.. 20 shots, 14 hits, 12 wounds, 4 wounds after saves vs shields or 8 wounds vs spears.

 

Same goes for support squads. But for cleaning up rests or eating small squads they aren't bad.. Considering they are a ton of points as well and your veterans are a troop choice via PotL.

 

Biggest thing will still be a Lancer, as a single bomb per round will do next to nothing and they can't retreat by choice (if i'm informed correctly, only got the internet stats).

 

10 Volkites will do 40 shots, 26 hits, 18 wounds, 3 wounds after saves.. hum nope. And you know, they are pretty much the best when it comes to hits with high strengh but but high ap.. so keep any bolter ideas or something like this at home.

 

50 levys, let 30 attack.. 90 attacks, 50 hits, 8 wounds, 3 wounds after saves vs shields oe 5-6 wounds vs spears.. not that bad when you consoder they are only 100 points and will tie them up for the upcoming rounds.

IF have +1 BS when firing bolters, so they'll be hitting on 2+ as well. And the Alphas (with Alpharius on the table) will have PE so chances of hits also increase (I'm not a math person, so cannot making the calculations without messing it up :P ) a bit.

 

And how about seekers? They're expensive but hitting on 2+, wounding on 4+ with re-roll & AP sounds ok-ish?

[helterskelter]

I'd take plasma seekers personally, with custodes having a reasonably low unit count, getting to your marked target would be easier and having up to 20 bs5 s7 ap2 shots for the first salvo is going to be pretty reasonable in clearing some out with the PE. But I love me my seekers so I'll happily claim bias there