Kais Klip Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Night Lords. No, really, Legio Custodes are hilarious to play against when you have a Talent for Murder. Emperor's finest just get shivved to death. I mean proper, 20 man blob Night Lords, not those ten man "terror" abortions who couldn't make the :cuss of a guardman squad in a chimera pucker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Alas those squads work a little more effectively whilst running terror assault. Having i5 while charging during night, means (depending on weapons) blobs of 20 tacs or assault marines will hit at the same time as opposed to losing a bunch of guys before getting to attack. And given each custodes is worth 2 regular guys, it's probably better going at them with the assault marines. Though a note on the terror squads, having preferred enemy infantry with Volkite helps getting wounds into the pool, and doesn't take a lot of movement to get them into range. Yeah they'll probably get charged but that's what ganging up is for. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Night Lords. No, really, Legio Custodes are hilarious to play against when you have a Talent for Murder. Emperor's finest just get shivved to death. I mean proper, 20 man blob Night Lords, not those ten man "terror" abortions who couldn't make the :cuss of a guardman squad in a chimera pucker. Have you tried that put for good use? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Night Lords. No, really, Legio Custodes are hilarious to play against when you have a Talent for Murder. Emperor's finest just get shivved to death. I mean proper, 20 man blob Night Lords, not those ten man "terror" abortions who couldn't make the of a guardman squad in a chimera pucker. Guardian and Hetaeron squads will kill you before you can swing. 'Preternatural Skill' puts them to I6, which is still faster even with Terror Assault bonus. Combined with Lightning Blows (6's to hit generate additional attacks) and Counter-Attack, they can drop a significant chunk of a 20-man squad before you get to punch them back. Aquillion and Sentinels will most likely have fists, so yeah you can probably spam wounds into them and drag a few down. Though a note on the terror squads, having preferred enemy infantry with Volkite helps getting wounds into the pool, and doesn't take a lot of movement to get them into range. Yeah they'll probably get charged but that's what ganging up is for. Terror squads will force a tonne of saves, but you might only end up killing 1-2 Custodians due to the 2+ armour. In general I'd advise avoiding melee with Custodians, they're exceptionally skilled. Terminators if they get the charge can do it, but regular PA infantry will get blenderised at I6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Custodes remain the Emperor's Republican Guard. Y'all are forgetting point efficiency, which is why I said twenty man blobs, and specifically called out terror squads on being crap (and not only against vs custodes). Terror squads are scary, until you actually start shooting back at them. 4 custodes facing down twenty legionaries (for the points of 4 custodes, you can throw on a vexilla, which many do, instead of upgrading the sergeant) will go down after 4 or 5 assault phases. Murdering them becomes faster when any ranged shooting while closing the distance is taken into account. 15 good old line legionaries with an apothecary does the same job. 15 good old line legionaries with a chaplain does the same job. Hell, a fully kitted out, 5 man Custodian guard ready for glory lost a man and a half just from the Hammer of Wrath attacks from my base load twenty man assault squad with jump packs. At I10. The Legionnaires' archenemy continues to be the unholy trinity of phospex, blast spam, and Sicarians. Not the royal bedmaids. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Custodes remain the Emperor's Republican Guard. Y'all are forgetting point efficiency, which is why I said twenty man blobs, and specifically called out terror squads on being crap (and not only against vs custodes). Terror squads are scary, until you actually start shooting back at them. 4 custodes facing down twenty legionaries (for the points of 4 custodes, you can throw on a vexilla, which many do, instead of upgrading the sergeant) will go down after 4 or 5 assault phases. Murdering them becomes faster when any ranged shooting while closing the distance is taken into account. 15 good old line legionaries with an apothecary does the same job. 15 good old line legionaries with a chaplain does the same job. Hell, a fully kitted out, 5 man Custodian guard ready for glory lost a man and a half just from the Hammer of Wrath attacks from my base load twenty man assault squad with jump packs. At I10. The Legionnaires' archenemy continues to be the unholy trinity of phospex, blast spam, and Sicarians. Not the royal bedmaids. Im curios how you got 20 man in base contact with 5 Custodes for their Hammer of Wrath attacks? ;) Besides that, it's just another anecdote that remindes us of the fact that dice don't always roll like predicted. But anyways let's see the stats. 20 dudes will make what? 19 wounds? That's one and a half Custodes. But 20 dudes won't be able to strike because Custodes have Ini6 and kill a couple before you strike. In the end you only tarpid them and hope that they won't come out of your unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 That's just nightmarishly unlucky rolling on the Guard's part with the HoW, not the norm. Even if all 20 got in, that should on average do one wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well there you go, I may owe the Custodes player a rematch since we forgot only base contacts get HoW. Guess he gets the cake back as well. Oh yeah, he'll get it back . Don't forget I'm talking Night Lords, so we hit and wound the custards (I really am quite sour about their eventual aesthetics) on 4s. Other legions would really toe 50/50 chance of success, but the point disparity between 3 squads of twenty legionaires and 3 squads of five (which is already more than people field) gives you a whole extra squad to play with. Imperial Fists just volley them away, while Emperor's Children have a glorious time with phoenix spears, albeit for a whole total of 2 seconds. The whole balance of the Custodes is that they simply are not meant to be a stand alone army; they fail the age-old boys-over-toys (and now -stats) adage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Well there you go, I may owe the Custodes player a rematch since we forgot only base contacts get HoW. Guess he gets the cake back as well. Oh yeah, he'll get it back . Don't forget I'm talking Night Lords, so we hit and wound the custards (I really am quite sour about their eventual aesthetics) on 4s. Other legions would really toe 50/50 chance of success, but the point disparity between 3 squads of twenty legionaires and 3 squads of five (which is already more than people field) gives you a whole extra squad to play with. Imperial Fists just volley them away, while Emperor's Children have a glorious time with phoenix spears, albeit for a whole total of 2 seconds. The whole balance of the Custodes is that they simply are not meant to be a stand alone army; they fail the age-old boys-over-toys (and now -stats) adage. Oh, I didn't forget the NL bonus. It's still 3 unsaved wounds -> one dead. And like I said Custodes have Ini6 against marines so if you really Fight against 5 Custodian dudes, than you don't have 20 marines fighting. More like 15. And 15 do half a Custodian. Same with Phoenix Guards, same with almost every unit in CC with them. Just shoot them. Don't punch them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 How did the marines not just break and get run down? Even assuming you did 20 HoW attacks, that isn't even 1 wound after saves. 20 Tacticals similarly do less than 1 wound a round in which they don't charge This is assuming NL by the way. The apothecary cuts down the custodes expected kills from 4 to just under 3 unsaved wounds. Taking a test at -2 to Ld will break you long before you kill a full Custode. I'm not saying you made the wrong choice you have to do some damage somehow, but there is an obvious reason people have moved on from marine hordes, they just don't do enough damage. They aren't even that good when fighting mortals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 How did the marines not just break and get run down? Even assuming you did 20 HoW attacks, that isn't even 1 wound after saves. 20 Tacticals similarly do less than 1 wound a round in which they don't charge This is assuming NL by the way. The apothecary cuts down the custodes expected kills from 4 to just under 3 unsaved wounds. Taking a test at -2 to Ld will break you long before you kill a full Custode. I'm not saying you made the wrong choice you have to do some damage somehow, but there is an obvious reason people have moved on from marine hordes, they just don't do enough damage. They aren't even that good when fighting mortals. I have to agree here s4 and negligible ap just doesn't do much like even a full fury of the Legion from a 20 man unit does under 3 wounds to a custodes squad, that's 80 bolter shots. If you are bolt pistoling and charging you come out worse as you don't hit on 3's in combat unlike shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4682695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Anyone had experience with proposed myrmidon destructors with graviton imploder + cyber occulari strategy? Stupid expensive, but 12+ BS5 shots wounding on 2+ makes deep striking a painful experience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Anyone had experience with proposed myrmidon destructors with graviton imploder + cyber occulari strategy? Stupid expensive, but 12+ BS5 shots wounding on 2+ makes deep striking a painful experience. Myrmidon Grav guns defintely are a good way to deal with custodes other than the tribune as he still doesn't care. But here me out here's the best strategy take an Ordinatus Ullator let the custodes player do anything you like as you ignore his saves instant death all his models and be done tabelling the golden boys by turn 3. (Obviously even the god engine struggles to do damage to the tribune.... duh) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Anyone had experience with proposed myrmidon destructors with graviton imploder + cyber occulari strategy? Stupid expensive, but 12+ BS5 shots wounding on 2+ makes deep striking a painful experience. Stupid phone. Lol. I'm going to be doing this lol. Seems the best option for me. Or thrusters to keep at range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Keep us posted on how it goes, might be worth investing in some vultarax as well, haywire appears to be a great way to glance custodes vehicles to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanceqi Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Custodes vehicles have vulnerable butt so maybe outflanking aa weapon or DS landspeeders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
norngahl Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 As I'm not having the book yet, what does that tank tribune do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 As I'm not having the book yet, what does that tank tribune do?Survive anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 As I'm not having the book yet, what does that tank tribune do? He's T5, 4 Wounds, 2+ armour, 3+ invuln re-rolling, and Eternal Warrior. And being a custodian he can punch/slice things to death very well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 @lt Dan, sadly the thrusters only have range as an advantage, you do half the amount of wounds as grav for the same price. It can be the difference between wiping out a squad or killing a guy and a half Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4683759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 @lt Dan, sadly the thrusters only have range as an advantage, you do half the amount of wounds as grav for the same price. It can be the difference between wiping out a squad or killing a guy and a half Yeah but grav-Destructors will likely fire once per game, then get charged and rekt by another Custodian unit. Photon thrusters let you sit back well out of melee range and chip away at them over several turns. If they're Deepstriking or Outflanking in Coronus of course then grav would be more useful, but they may not come to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4684543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellex_The_Thanatar Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 The pain train will be able to place them where they need to be to maximize pain. This dream scenario of oh I'll just hit him with a unit nearby is silly since they still out range your move and average charge especially once the grav has wiped away the closest squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4684551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 @reclusiarch. That's exactly how i meant. Cheers. If your close enough for grav your close enough to get charged. @skimask. Yeah exactly but at much safer distance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4685130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I hope most Custodes players adopt some of the "balancing" factors being discussed in their sub-forum, like not taking a cyber familiar and shield both (or just taking Valdor) and adding some Imperial allies or Sisters. I know I will and I think most will be amenable because they want to actually get some games with these guys. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4685150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Shield stops me from getting the 2ccw bonus on my Solerite Gauntlet, and One Punch Custode needs his extra attacks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331562-legio-custodes-weaknesses/page/7/#findComment-4685156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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