Legio Custodes Weaknesses?

[Brofist]

Anyone had experience with proposed myrmidon destructors with graviton imploder + cyber occulari strategy? Stupid expensive, but 12+ BS5 shots wounding on 2+ makes deep striking a painful experience.

I've been using cyber occulari to create interceptor bubbles for a while. Honestly surprised more people haven't used them as it's probably the strongest outflank/deep strike defense out there. I don’t play against custodes, but I use thallax or destructors with photon thrusters against marines and it works really well. I prefer thrusters because you are dangerous out to 48” and can castle up really well.

 

There are drawbacks. The main issue is that they are independent models and they only affect individual models within 3”. This makes positioning critical and makes you vulnerable to blast templates early on. People want to snipe those little guys as fast as they can. I’ve found the best way to get around this is to take 2-3 and to deploy them ~12” away from your interceptor squad. If you go first, move them together during turn 2. If you go second, move them together at the end of turn 1. Another option is to put them inside a transport or bunker with your magos and his boyfriends. Then, the turn before your opponent gets reserves, pile out and get ready to intercept.

 

A side effect of this is that your opponents often commit indirect firepower to taking down occulari. Deredeo missile launchers are popular, as are medusa, and scorpius missiles. That’s good for you though, because your opponent is taking time shelling a single model with nasty ranged weapons, taking the heat off the rest of your army.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

@lt Dan, sadly the thrusters only have range as an advantage, you do half the amount of wounds as grav for the same price. It can be the difference between wiping out a squad or killing a guy and a half 

 

Yeah but grav-Destructors will likely fire once per game, then get charged and rekt by another Custodian unit. Photon thrusters let you sit back well out of melee range and chip away at them over several turns. If they're Deepstriking or Outflanking in Coronus of course then grav would be more useful, but they may not come to you. 

 

 

Why would you not bubble wrap your precious devestators with techthralls? Putting myrmidons with no bubble wrap within charging distance of multiple custodes units sounds like a misplay that deserves to be punished to me.

 

Also why would they not come to you? Outside of the jetbikes, all their non-vehicles operate in the 12"-18" range.

 

 

Anyone had experience with proposed myrmidon destructors with graviton imploder + cyber occulari strategy? Stupid expensive, but 12+ BS5 shots wounding on 2+ makes deep striking a painful experience.

I've been using cyber occulari to create interceptor bubbles for a while. Honestly surprised more people haven't used them as it's probably the strongest outflank/deep strike defense out there. I don’t play against custodes, but I use thallax or destructors with photon thrusters against marines and it works really well. I prefer thrusters because you are dangerous out to 48” and can castle up really well.

 

There are drawbacks. The main issue is that they are independent models and they only affect individual models within 3”. This makes positioning critical and makes you vulnerable to blast templates early on. People want to snipe those little guys as fast as they can. I’ve found the best way to get around this is to take 2-3 and to deploy them ~12” away from your interceptor squad. If you go first, move them together during turn 2. If you go second, move them together at the end of turn 1. Another option is to put them inside a transport or bunker with your magos and his boyfriends. Then, the turn before your opponent gets reserves, pile out and get ready to intercept.

 

A side effect of this is that your opponents often commit indirect firepower to taking down occulari. Deredeo missile launchers are popular, as are medusa, and scorpius missiles. That’s good for you though, because your opponent is taking time shelling a single model with nasty ranged weapons, taking the heat off the rest of your army.

 

 

Not sure if you're talking about mechanicum primary detachment or allied, but they only grant intercept to models in the same detachment. So kinda not worth for allies.

[Brofist]

Where else are you getting unrestricted interceptor? They are totally worth it!

 

I hear you that it's only for the same detachment, but admech has plenty of ways you can take advantage of it within an allied detachment.

[LtDan]

As occulari are wargear there is no vp for killing them right(sorry if dumb question haven't used them yet)

[GorgeousGoat]

I played Custodes this weekend at No Retreat Horus Heresy event - check my instagram angel.exterminatus to see a photo of the upset Custodes player (my friend Alex) as I left him with an immobolised dread.

 

How - this list was not tailored at all:

 

Fire Raptor

Fulgrim

Kakaphoni

Venator

Las Vindi

Metla on everything (Land Speeders, Tac Support Squad, Javelin)

 

I play the 3rd Legion, which is about speed and strategic perfection. Custodes are the same speed as all infantry after you remove their skimmers (3+ Jink with night fighting is very annoying).

First Turn - I melta'd all transports he had and immobilized his dread. The Venator and las vindi also saw to the transports. As they had their mobility reduced, it was simple case of staying 22-23" away and melta shots.

Fulgrim minced Valdor and by T5 it was all over. 

 

Remove their mobility, out manoeuvre them and bring high strength weaponry at AP1/AP2 and bring a Primarch. 

[em_en_oh_pee]

I played Custodes this weekend at No Retreat Horus Heresy event - check my instagram angel.exterminatus to see a photo of the upset Custodes player (my friend Alex) as I left him with an immobolised dread.

 

How - this list was not tailored at all:

 

Fire Raptor

Fulgrim

Kakaphoni

Venator

Las Vindi

Metla on everything (Land Speeders, Tac Support Squad, Javelin)

 

I play the 3rd Legion, which is about speed and strategic perfection. Custodes are the same speed as all infantry after you remove their skimmers (3+ Jink with night fighting is very annoying).

First Turn - I melta'd all transports he had and immobilized his dread. The Venator and las vindi also saw to the transports. As they had their mobility reduced, it was simple case of staying 22-23" away and melta shots.

Fulgrim minced Valdor and by T5 it was all over. 

 

Remove their mobility, out manoeuvre them and bring high strength weaponry at AP1/AP2 and bring a Primarch. 

 

You popped his transports with Melta? I really hope this was because he didn't take AC and has learned a valuable lesson! :D I mean, you need 6's to glance front armor, so I am guessing you came in on the sides maybe? 

[Marshal Loss]

What was Fulgrim's retinue & transport?

[GorgeousGoat]

He didn't take AC and always, always go into the side. You have the speed with Land Speeders and Javelin's to get to them. 

 

Fulgrim (Fireblade - before people say Blade of Laer... Fireblade is less worse and Angel Exterminatus is an awesome book, which he uses a lot so fluffy)

Chaplain (Boarding Shield, MB's and AA) 

6 Tac Suport Squad with Melt-guns (Geeks Wargaming Reference)

I chose the WT for Child of Terra.

 

In a Dreadclaw.

 

Full List I took for the SN Battle Reports HH Event:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwwZR-6UTQEFMXVFODlGMlpsUUE/view?usp=sharing

 

T1 - you come down, get the melt team out (Fulgrim and Chappie stay in the Dreadclaw) and murder the transport. They can't assault as it's not an assault vehicle - even if it's destroyed or emergency disembarkation. 

T1 - they bolter your melt team. 

T2 - shoot them with meltas if any left alive. Charge with Fulgrim and Chaplain, challenge one out, get the Initiative bonus with 5+ being ID. You are wounding on 2's, re-rolling 1's and they only have AP3 weapons, 2 rounds and before the end of his T2, they will be all dead. 

T3 - Get back in the dreadclaw, rinse and repeat or charge Fulgrim into any of them if he tries to take him down - DO NOT LET HIM GET THE CHARGE with Guardian Spears. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

As occulari are wargear there is no vp for killing them right(sorry if dumb question haven't used them yet)

 

I'm pretty sure they do count for VPs, away from book, but it says they function as normal except with specific things (like LoS and scoring/denial)

[em_en_oh_pee]

He didn't take AC and always, always go into the side. You have the speed with Land Speeders and Javelin's to get to them. 

 

Fulgrim (Fireblade - before people say Blade of Laer... Fireblade is less worse and Angel Exterminatus is an awesome book, which he uses a lot so fluffy)

Chaplain (Boarding Shield, MB's and AA) 

6 Tac Suport Squad with Melt-guns (Geeks Wargaming Reference)

I chose the WT for Child of Terra.

 

In a Dreadclaw.

 

Full List I took for the SN Battle Reports HH Event:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwwZR-6UTQEFMXVFODlGMlpsUUE/view?usp=sharing

 

T1 - you come down, get the melt team out (Fulgrim and Chappie stay in the Dreadclaw) and murder the transport. They can't assault as it's not an assault vehicle - even if it's destroyed or emergency disembarkation. 

T1 - they bolter your melt team. 

T2 - shoot them with meltas if any left alive. Charge with Fulgrim and Chaplain, challenge one out, get the Initiative bonus with 5+ being ID. You are wounding on 2's, re-rolling 1's and they only have AP3 weapons, 2 rounds and before the end of his T2, they will be all dead. 

T3 - Get back in the dreadclaw, rinse and repeat or charge Fulgrim into any of them if he tries to take him down - DO NOT LET HIM GET THE CHARGE with Guardian Spears. 

 

Serves him right for not taking AC. I am shocked he didn't bust your Dreadclaw, since that seems pretty easy and would deny you the mobility needed to put much hurt on his army. A lot rests on his list though. Your strategy relies on two units surviving against potentially a large chunk of his army. I know I would have deployed my army close together to support one another, to get that Tankbune in and some Hetaeron, etc. Then again, if he was doing like one transport and a bunch of Dreads and footsloggers, it isn't a shock he was taken apart. I feel like Custodes rely on the mobility of their army transports a lot - as most CC armies tend to.

[Marshal Loss]

Kudos, if nothing else that's a way to run Fulgrim I haven't seen before - glad to hear it worked, pretty slick idea.

[GorgeousGoat]

The star of the show was the Fire Raptor, they don't really have Anti-Air and the amount of Dice that can make a custodes player role for a small model count army is obscene. 

 

2 units surviving?

They're not on the board T1 if he has it, and then I have a Venator, Las Vindi, 2 Javelins, 3 Land Speeders, 2 Rhinos with MM and a Contemptor Mortis. 

 

Maybe I wasn't the clearest when explaining how my list works: death by a thousand cuts and each cut is to draw the pain out more for my opponent - who's tears will sate Slaanesh as she who thirsts devours their soul as my EC take them apart.

I always say "For Slaanesh" - when needing a 6 lol. 

[GorgeousGoat]

Kudos, if nothing else that's a way to run Fulgrim I haven't seen before - glad to hear it worked, pretty slick idea.

Thanks - however, against Custodes. More 2+ armour charging is only a good thing :-D

[em_en_oh_pee]

The star of the show was the Fire Raptor, they don't really have Anti-Air and the amount of Dice that can make a custodes player role for a small model count army is obscene. 

 

2 units surviving?

They're not on the board T1 if he has it, and then I have a Venator, Las Vindi, 2 Javelins, 3 Land Speeders, 2 Rhinos with MM and a Contemptor Mortis. 

 

Maybe I wasn't the clearest when explaining how my list works: death by a thousand cuts and each cut is to draw the pain out more for my opponent - who's tears will sate Slaanesh as she who thirsts devours their soul as my EC take them apart.

I always say "For Slaanesh" - when needing a 6 lol. 

 

I get what you had, but it isn't easy to judge his failings without his list. I am thinking of my lists at 2500pt and it would be a pretty solid counter to a good chunk of yours... even the Fire Raptor (volume of shots from all those accelerator cannons). The Caladius and the Jetbikes would give you fits, at least. No Jinks on your Javs and Speeders, and d3 Lascannon shots at your tanks (per Jetbike). If he went heavy footslogging and Dreads, you would make mincemeat of him with your mobility and firepower.

[GorgeousGoat]

 

The star of the show was the Fire Raptor, they don't really have Anti-Air and the amount of Dice that can make a custodes player role for a small model count army is obscene. 

 

2 units surviving?

They're not on the board T1 if he has it, and then I have a Venator, Las Vindi, 2 Javelins, 3 Land Speeders, 2 Rhinos with MM and a Contemptor Mortis. 

 

Maybe I wasn't the clearest when explaining how my list works: death by a thousand cuts and each cut is to draw the pain out more for my opponent - who's tears will sate Slaanesh as she who thirsts devours their soul as my EC take them apart.

I always say "For Slaanesh" - when needing a 6 lol. 

 

I get what you had, but it isn't easy to judge his failings without his list. I am thinking of my lists at 2500pt and it would be a pretty solid counter to a good chunk of yours... even the Fire Raptor (volume of shots from all those accelerator cannons). The Caladius and the Jetbikes would give you fits, at least. No Jinks on your Javs and Speeders, and d3 Lascannon shots at your tanks (per Jetbike). If he went heavy footslogging and Dreads, you would make mincemeat of him with your mobility and firepower.

 

Oh absolutely - I'd get rail roaded but my list is trying to be at least a challenge with Fluff. Either way - Slaanesh will always win. You'd take pleasure in my pain, therefore - I would win :-D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The pain train will be able to place them where they need to be to maximize pain. This dream scenario of oh I'll just hit him with a unit nearby is silly since they still out range your move and average charge especially once the grav has wiped away the closest squad.

What if they disable the Triaros early? It's not a theoretical, Custodes have quite a few nasty options to kill vehicles.

I hope most Custodes players adopt some of the "balancing" factors being discussed in their sub-forum, like not taking a cyber familiar and shield both (or just taking Valdor) and adding some Imperial allies or Sisters. I know I will and I think most will be amenable because they want to actually get some games with these guys.

Yeah, but like all self-imposed limitations its not a realistic prospect. I don't think Custodians are overall that broken, they're incredibly elite and every loss is heartbreaking for them. They're also quite slow if you de-mech them, without skimmers or jetbikes they can't gap-close. Tankibune is just another absurd FW creation, I would expect an FAQ soon enough to address him. Valdor is basically just another Primarch, treat accordingly. Hetaeron are incredibly annoying, but they still die to Demolisher cannon or massed AP2 just fine.

Why would you not bubble wrap your precious devestators with techthralls? Putting myrmidons with no bubble wrap within charging distance of multiple custodes units sounds like a misplay that deserves to be punished to me.

Also why would they not come to you? Outside of the jetbikes, all their non-vehicles operate in the 12"-18" range.

Cos I dunno, Custodians remove infantry very easily. They also get a plethora of options when it comes to deployment and positioning. It's not a misplay, grav-Myrmidons have to close to 18" of their prey. It's the same regardless of whether you're fighting Custodians or Legion. You'll nuke a unit (hopefully their Primarch or Praetor), then get rekt by revenge attacks.

They can engage on their terms, and they have to because of so few models in the list. Their vehicles give them the ranged edge and mobility to avoid units or fights they don't want. Outflanking is especially nasty because they'd lost a turn disembarking anyway normally (as they can't charge). Custodians hitting your backfield in a Coronus is pretty scary.

[Brofist]

As occulari are wargear there is no vp for killing them right(sorry if dumb question haven't used them yet)

It's a grey area, but they are part of your HQ unit entry dispute being independent models that can move around.

[LtDan]

Yeah makes me wonder. As the have a profile etc. So if one dies is that one vp?. Or just war year so doesn't matter....hmm

[LtDan]

Prob should ask in the mech thread lol

[SkimaskMohawk]

@darius they really don't have a lot of mass infantry removal from range. They have the d3 Las cannon and the calladius, neither of which removes swathes of guys. If they're pouring all their long range into your allied troop unit instead of the rest of the list, then they're misplaying. Anything else is within your threat range. Sure they get a lot of deployment options, but they're all used to close with your enemy because the army functions at close range.

[NoLifeKing]

 

As I'm not having the book yet, what does that tank tribune do?

Survive anything.

 

Didn't survive the experience of lorgar+ 10 gal vorbak being piledrived through his ribcage today... 

 

What is the weakness of legio custodes? Primarchs, just throw a primarch with any respectable closecombat retinue and the custodes kinda bend over and break. 

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

 

As I'm not having the book yet, what does that tank tribune do?

Survive anything.

Didn't survive the experience of lorgar+ 10 gal vorbak being piledrived through his ribcage today...

 

What is the weakness of legio custodes? Primarchs, just throw a primarch with any respectable closecombat retinue and the custodes kinda bend over and break.

Really because a tank Tribune and some Hetaeron Guard should wipe that squad on average roles. Mathematically lorgar can't even hurt the tribune. If you roll bad maybe you lose stuff but every one of your models hits on 3s wounds on 3s instant deathing them and they hit on 5s outside of the sergeant wound on 4s Mathematically they can't win.

 

You also always should be rolling Tribune invul as you can pick which save you use and 3++ reroll > 2+ as its a 90% pass rate. Then look out sir to bounce saves around so no one dies.

[Withershadow]

Look out sir would pass to the same model until it's dead, and I would rather use the Tribune to tank for a softer unit like Guardians, but sure, that should be more than a match for most Legion deathstars.

[NoLifeKing]

 

 

 

As I'm not having the book yet, what does that tank tribune do?

Survive anything.

Didn't survive the experience of lorgar+ 10 gal vorbak being piledrived through his ribcage today...

 

What is the weakness of legio custodes? Primarchs, just throw a primarch with any respectable closecombat retinue and the custodes kinda bend over and break.

Really because a tank Tribune and some Hetaeron Guard should wipe that squad on average roles. Mathematically lorgar can't even hurt the tribune. If you roll bad maybe you lose stuff but every one of your models hits on 3s wounds on 3s instant deathing them and they hit on 5s outside of the sergeant wound on 4s Mathematically they can't win.

 

You also always should be rolling Tribune invul as you can pick which save you use and 3++ reroll > 2+ as its a 90% pass rate. Then look out sir to bounce saves around so no one dies.

 

hits on 3? how exactly do you hit gal'vorbak on 3s with custodians? 

 

And look out sir doesn't bounce the wounds around further than between two models untill one of them dies. 

 

Also, the gal'vorbak charged, with hatred, prefered enemy and feel no pain. thats 45 hits from the squad, + 5 s10 fist strikes and we're not even counting the primarch, and vulkan does this even better with his firedrakes.

[Raktra]

Remember that the Custodes will swing first, so far fewer attacks are gonna be returning to them. Plus, if he's not playing like a pleb, there'll be defensive grenades and a -1 to hit in play. The 3+ to hit is definitely wrong though.