+ Librarian – Tactica and Strategica +

[Race Bannon]

The Transcendant

Space Marines with uncanny abilities beyond expectations, these Brothers can touch the Immaterium. Altering reality to suit the needs of battle, Librarians use psychic abilities to unleash devastation against their foe or augment their own super-human abilities.

Librarians also keep records of and for the Chapter, through triumph and loss, their charge is a sacred task. For the Raven Guard and their successors, the members of the Librarius are not known for their deeds, yet are not shunned from the ranks of combat. Maybe lacking in story is a testament to their ability to hide their otherwise powerful contributions in war.

More details can be found here:

Games Workshop

Warhammer 40,000 Wiki

Lexicanium

To guide discussion:

What are unit’s strengths?

What are the unit’s weaknesses?

How would the unit be used tactically (by itself or in concert with another unit)?

How would the unit be used strategically (as part of an overall plan)?

What formations can the unit be found, as mandatory or as an option?

NOTE: Terminator Librarians are also included for discussion and the Terminator Dreadnought Armor not only allows increased protection, but may also change the way the humble Librarian is used on the battlefield.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Race Bannon

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

My limited experience involves a ML2 Librarian with the Armor of Shadows attached to a ranged element (Centurion Devs). I roll for Prescience/Psychic Shriek. They get dropped into the thick of it in cover on T1, and park in such a way as to reach a large center of the board. if I play against a non-psyker army, he is an excellent force multiplier. If I play against another army with psykers, he is utterly useless, other than being a way to buy the Armor of Shadow on the cheap.
 
Feels like if you want to compete against any army with a respectable psy-dice pool (Daemons, 1kSons, Grey Knights, Tyranids to a lesser extent) you will have to have a conclave to have a chance of a presence in the psychic phase. I presently don't own that many librarian models, but the idea of a RG conclave with 2-3 with Jump Packs, and another with Bike seems great to spread out amongst a Jump Infantry army to use as a wide-spread force multiplier.
 

What are unit’s strengths?

1) Low cost HQ
2) Great force multiplier
3) Force can be a great out against MC and the like
 

What are the unit’s weaknesses?

1) No way to include within a Talon Strike Force
2) Performance is based on matchup, heavily (more so than most units)
3) Weaker statline makes him less-than-ideal at anything other than being a wizard.

 

How would the unit be used tactically (by itself or in concert with another unit)?

Best served as a buff bot. As a Raven Guard general, you will find yourself up close and personal a lot. Any spells you can use to buff your heavy hitters (Invisibility, Prescience, and the like) can be very strong. We don't struggle with mobility like some marine equivilants do, so we can put those psychic assets into buffs/offense. Psychic Shriek can be especially brutal when paired with a Deep Striking unit (Jump Pack or Pod, both fitting into our MO). Best paired with a ranged unit (Devs, Cents, etc) to buff for rerolls/ignores cover, or paired with an offensive close combat unit for more murder-potential (VVs, Terminators, other HQs).
 

How would the unit be used strategically (as part of an overall plan)?

I find the best application of force is to have him joined to a valuable unit, and using his powers (or equipped with the Armor of Shadows) to increase that units power on the playing field. Keep him alive as long as possible to get maximum returns from his "gifts".
 

What formations can the unit be found, as mandatory or as an option?

That is the units largest struggle. Obviously we can take a Libraris conclave, but we wont benefit from the TSF benefits. Alternatively you can take a CAD or Allied Detachment and have him be your HQ, to get one in on the cheap. However, once you go down this road, it quickly becomes a question of "is it worth it?" to run him as RG versus another Chapter. (see: White Scars/Hunters Eye tech, etc).

[Damo1701]

What are unit’s strengths? 

 

Various discipline for different tasks/enemies.

Cheap initial Points cost

 

What are the unit’s weaknesses? 

 

No base invulnerable save.

Can quickly spiral out of control with points for upgrades.

 

How would the unit be used tactically (by itself or in concert with another unit)?

 

Can be added to squads for either force multiplication, or run solo for character/monster hunting

 

How would the unit be used strategically (as part of an overall plan)?

 

Varies depending on your opponent.  Either in a squad for ablative wounds, and getting close to the enemy for unleashing close range powers or getting into combat.

Staying back and casting protective powers/buffing powers to enhance longer range units like devastators.

Using technomancy to keep vehicles viable/counter enemy vehicles.

 

What formations can the unit be found, as mandatory or as an option?

 

Librarian Conclave - which doesn't gain specialist bonuses.

CAD - as an optional HQ, but could displace units that could be of more use.

 

Overall opinion:

 

I've always liked Librarians.  However, with the nerf to their abilities, I find them rather more underpowered for their costs.  Costs that involve either ablative bodies or protections/wargear/relics.  Usually better things to spend points on.

 

If Librarians could actually be used as they are depicted, then I feel they would be more worth the investment.  Mastery Level 2, the highest the Raven Guard can secure, knows 4 powers maximum, but can only cast two, whereas an ML 1 knows 3, but can only use 1...  Really not worth their points.

 

Playing casual games at home, I get far more out of Librarians than I ever have playing in store, where I am restricted to the "official" rulings.  

All in all, if you are thinking Librarians, take a conclave, but an Ultramarines one, with Tigerius.
 

[Claws and Effect]

You can also give one Swiftstrike and Murder and go fishing for Fists of Lightning and have the best blob blender in the game available in a single character.

 

He'll be squishy, but if you can get him in melee with a blob he'll shred them.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

You can also give one Swiftstrike and Murder and go fishing for Fists of Lightning and have the best blob blender in the game available in a single character.

He'll be squishy, but if you can get him in melee with a blob he'll shred them.

I think at this point, your Fists of Lightning Librarian build, you are going to be required to model, play, and report back a batrep using that kit loadout, and give us details. Preferably against Orks, IG, or Bugs. I expect a hilarious kill-count tracker style batrep like something out of Zombieland. Only then, once you have fulfilled this mission, can you resume your agenda of the Fists of Lightning/SS&M/Libby, or as I am going to dub it, the "Realityburner"

[Claws and Effect]

You can also give one Swiftstrike and Murder and go fishing for Fists of Lightning and have the best blob blender in the game available in a single character.

He'll be squishy, but if you can get him in melee with a blob he'll shred them.

I think at this point, your Fists of Lightning Librarian build, you are going to be required to model, play, and report back a batrep using that kit loadout, and give us details. Preferably against Orks, IG, or Bugs. I expect a hilarious kill-count tracker style batrep like something out of Zombieland. Only then, once you have fulfilled this mission, can you resume your agenda of the Fists of Lightning/SS&M/Libby, or as I am going to dub it, the "Realityburner"

Challenge Accepted :D

Brother-Librarian Rerum Exuro shall soon be born.

(Latin translation of Realityburner)

Edit 2: How awesome would it be if I manage to roll Fists of Lightning and Electrodisplacement at the same time?

Edited March 7, 2017 by Realityburn

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

How would the unit be used strategically?

 

1.  Adding an independent asset to your army that is very threatening.  A librarian bikerstar... might even work ok with jump packs.  

 

The idea is to have a really nasty mobile component that draws fire.  Maybe 3 libs on bikes/lvl 2 and added to a pinion command squad on bikes with grav or a couple of power weapons.  This idea probably works best at 1850-2000 points since you need other elements of your force to be a threat also.  

 

 

2.  Point efficient buffing that enhances an already solid list/gameplan

 

Grab 3 libs and just spread em around your army as needed.  Add no extra gear and just dish out divination buffs to your guys.  

 

Stuff needs twin-linking...

 

Devastators, any flavor

Drop pod sternguard/command squads

Land Speeders, any flavour

Sniper scouts! 

 

Stuff that needs forewarning...

 

any vehicles

assault squads!

 

Scrier's gaze might even be good.  I've never tested it but discarding bad cards and rerollable reserves on turn 2 seems pretty good to me.

 

 

 

 

[Race Bannon]

Found some discussion -

 

HERE

 

Lib + SS&M (although this has been discussed in several other threads devoted to a Frater's army

 

And HERE

 

Conclave talk ( of course "Conclave" is another search word likely to yield interesting discussion)

 

What about this?

[Claws and Effect]

Put together a CAD list with a Librarian as 1 HQ and chaplain as the other.

 

Rolling with a 10 deep Assault Squad.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Put together a CAD list with a Librarian as 1 HQ and chaplain as the other.

 

Rolling with a 10 deep Assault Squad.

I've been rolling with a chaplain+5 man assault squad.  It has its moments but is kind of bad :X  5 marines just dont have too much staying power.  I'm definately going to try upping this squad to 10.

[Claws and Effect]

 

Put together a CAD list with a Librarian as 1 HQ and chaplain as the other.

 

Rolling with a 10 deep Assault Squad.

I've been rolling with a chaplain+5 man assault squad.  It has its moments but is kind of bad :X  5 marines just dont have too much staying power.  I'm definately going to try upping this squad to 10.

 

 

The assault squad is basically just ablative wounds. The Chaplain will have the Raven Skull and eat challenges. 

 

Of course it all falls apart if I fail to get the powers I want. Still end up with an Assault 6 power to make up for not having a gun, so there's that I guess.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

 

Put together a CAD list with a Librarian as 1 HQ and chaplain as the other.

 

Rolling with a 10 deep Assault Squad.

I've been rolling with a chaplain+5 man assault squad.  It has its moments but is kind of bad :X  5 marines just dont have too much staying power.  I'm definately going to try upping this squad to 10.

 

 

The assault squad is basically just ablative wounds. The Chaplain will have the Raven Skull and eat challenges. 

 

Of course it all falls apart if I fail to get the powers I want. Still end up with an Assault 6 power to make up for not having a gun, so there's that I guess.

 

I've got an eviscerator and 2 flamers in my squad so it has some utility against vehicles/infantry but just doesn't take hits well.  I've been relying on the squad being less threatening than other stuff.  I might drop the evis later on... problem is i really like the model :<

 

Do you think assault marines can be a viable deathstar?  10 man squad with a 3 man conclave... vet sarge with an evis and librarians with force staves.  Go for invis/forewarning/veil of time?    

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I think by definition a Deathstar has to be a unit that can eliminate another unit every turn (or at least that's one of its core tenants is my understanding). You'll get mobility and overall a cheap unit for ablative wounds, but I don't know that they are a candidate for that sort of threat classification. Even if you throw 300+ points worth of a conclave and chaplain at them to "soup" them up, I think you will find they will still have a tough time to punch above their weight class.

Your biggest asset in an assault squad is two things (in my opinion): Hammer of Wrath (buffed by our CT) and Flamers. The bigger the squad becomes, the faster you lose returns on Hammer of Wrath (as it just becomes too difficult to get 10+ models in B2B). Flamers are a count of 2, whether you have 5 or 10.

In my (somewhat jaded) opinion, trying to convert a 10-Man ASM unit into a deathstar is sorta like putting a flashlight and tactical forgrip on a spear. You may improve its appearance but it's still...a spear.

[Claws and Effect]

Don't think of it as a deathstar.

 

More like one dangerous guy wrapped in bullet sponges.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I think by definition a Deathstar has to be a unit that can eliminate another unit every turn (or at least that's one of its core tenants is my understanding). You'll get mobility and overall a cheap unit for ablative wounds, but I don't know that they are a candidate for that sort of threat classification. Even if you throw 300+ points worth of a conclave and chaplain at them to "soup" them up, I think you will find they will still have a tough time to punch above their weight class.

Your biggest asset in an assault squad is two things (in my opinion): Hammer of Wrath (buffed by our CT) and Flamers. The bigger the squad becomes, the faster you lose returns on Hammer of Wrath (as it just becomes too difficult to get 10+ models in B2B). Flamers are a count of 2, whether you have 5 or 10.

In my (somewhat jaded) opinion, trying to convert a 10-Man ASM unit into a deathstar is sorta like putting a flashlight and tactical forgrip on a spear. You may improve its appearance but it's still...a spear.

What if I also add a silencer, a laser scope, GPS, and a motion sensor to my spear?

[Colonel Bindoff]

You could add a nuke to it but it'd still be fundamentally less useful than a properly designed warhead fired from a lot further away!

 

AMs have their uses. I think a lot of people underestimate them actually and I've found this a very handy fact since returning to the game. But they are light skirmishers and not hoplites; do not use them against other CC units. Send them into shooty troops, backfield objective holders and the like and you'll reap the rewards of your superior generalship.

 

Send them against assault terminators etc and you'll find out why people think they're terrible.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

CB has the right of it. Most people (myself included) get a little caught up in the fluff application vs table application. Assault marines (from a fluff POV) are designed to get into the thick of it and fight most anything. In past editions we had better tools to do that (hidden powerfist syndrome, or HPS as I like to call it, better grenade options - Meltabombs everywhere). Now the unit can pretty much only hunt weaker infantry and occasionally harass light vehicles (anything AV10).

 

At the risk of not straying too off topic (Librarians), ill just say that when it comes to ASM you either want a small amount (1 unit in an 1850 list), or you want to saturate your list with them to shift the dynamic of the game. If your whole list is jump infantry, it can make target acquisition and choices very hard for your opponent very quickly. It's one of the main reasons you will find fellow frater's have had great success with the Bladewing Assault Brotherhood (Lord Lorne Walker and Jacques Corbin to name a couple). I think its also the principal reason elder is so strong right now. Also, an all ASM army is fun, and it takes people by surprise (to a degree). I think this is why Lawrence from Tabletop Tactics did so well at the LVO, because he played a list with a billion Reaver Jetbikes.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

You could add a nuke to it but it'd still be fundamentally less useful than a properly designed warhead fired from a lot further away!

 

AMs have their uses. I think a lot of people underestimate them actually and I've found this a very handy fact since returning to the game. But they are light skirmishers and not hoplites; do not use them against other CC units. Send them into shooty troops, backfield objective holders and the like and you'll reap the rewards of your superior generalship.

 

Send them against assault terminators etc and you'll find out why people think they're terrible.

In one of the first games of 40k I played... I sent my 5 assault marines into a 20 man squad of ork boys.  I mean.. they are marines that assault right??  RIGHT??   Lost 3 to goddamn pistol overwatch lol!  I didn't quite understand that a 3+ armour isnt so good if you have to make 20 saves.  I'm sure that fight would have gone better if I had 5 extra marines with 3 librarians casting veil of time and prescience.   

[Jacques Corbin]

The thing with Librarians is that the discipline you choose is everything. I love the element of unpredictability they bring to the game. It's an aspect of your list that few other factions can fully prepare for. That said, the only power you can ever count on is the Primaris, and the rest are just gravy.

 

Well, a Librarian running Divination is great with Armor of Shadows supporting Devastators, Centurians, Thunderfire Cannons, or even Sternguard.

 

Now, my favorite is a Librarian running Telepathy with a Force Axe and a Jump Pack. If he rolls Invisibility, this will scare the :cuss out of just about any opponent. You need a 5 to wound, but one-shotting a Riptide is hilarious. Yes, he will hit at I1 because of that Unwieldy axe, but he will be part of a unit that can soak up those wounds, or he can choose to swing with his Bolt Pistol (S4) at I4 versus anything where the axe would be impractical.

[Shrieker]

Oros 'Shrieker' Lykaion is my namesake librarian. force axe + telepathy+Jump pack.

Shriek is awesome. Invisibility even more so. He runs with the vanguards.

Hes less predictable than a chaplain, but he brings a 'jitters factor' to the opponent, that a chaplain wouldn't.