Balthamal Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 No offence Atia but have you considered that a decent wedge of the 30K community WANT there to be a divide? The way 40K armies are structured at the minute are a joke - the main draw of 30K is that it's taken away from the Power-gaming mentality that's prevalent in 40K right now. I know it's not universal but you'd be amazed at the number of people who find ways to take tiggy/Loth/an IH CH with Gorgon's chain on a bike and lots of Scars bikers and Ravenwing just because it's "fluffy" Narrative play is a waste of time to 30K players - we've already got it, why be happy to trade it for an inferior version for what? So an Eldar player doesn't have to feel guilty about stomping the :cuss out of a Legion list? I'm willing to see how it all pans out but everyone saying how it's a great thing etc I fear that's nothing more than self-delusion. Hopefully I'm proved wrong Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Yeah, let's attract more Milleniels to the game. I like people who are to lazy to read a couple of rules.HA. Wow that was good for a laugh. Thanks I needed that... Nothing like good 'ol generalising and elitism right?Abso:cussingloutely ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna707 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Does anyone know when the new edition is dropping? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Does anyone know when the new edition is dropping? I have absolutely no idea, but if I had to guess I'd say June/July. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Apparently (take with healthy dose of sodium chloride) GW staff have had their leave pulled for June so if that's got any truth to it then the logical assumption to make is around that time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I think it's a mistake to completely over simplify the rules as they've done with AoS. Yes, things need cleaning up, a dedicated movement value for units would make sense but a compete deletion of stat lines would absolutely ruin the game for me, especially the Strength, Toughness, and Initiative ones. I feel they're critical to how the game both plays and balances (30k). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 In regards to FW in general, they better have their stuff together on release. All of my armies have large FW portions that are an integral part of the army. 30k especially for obvious reasons. I am the only 30k player I know of in my area. There are no game stores locally(within 45 minutes) and my local group is all 40k. I have never actually played against another 30k player in the last four or so years. The rules updates for 30k, and all of their 40k units need to be available on release of 8th. Going to be really ticked at FW if they screwed up and haven't been redoing their units and I am stuck sitting on the sidelines waiting for them to get their act together while my expensive armies collect dust. Angelus should have been delayed so they could have their staff work on 8th updates. How are the Elysians going to work? How are XV-9s going to work? Death Korps? Badab tactics and characters? This should have all been done or will be done upon 8ths release. Maybe I am over reacting but it shows a real lack of planning if this doesn't take place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The way 40K armies are structured at the minute are a joke - the main draw of 30K is that it's taken away from the Power-gaming mentality that's prevalent in 40K right now. I know it's not universal but you'd be amazed at the number of people who find ways to take tiggy/Loth/an IH CH with Gorgon's chain on a bike and lots of Scars bikers and Ravenwing just because it's "fluffy" You are aware that most of that "power gaming mentality" isn't possible anymore in AoS currently, right? You even got points for formations, and themed armies (as in, if you only take one faction) get boni. You also can't take 20 heroes in your army anymore. Tbh AoS as it's currently is is 10x better balanced and plays smoother than 40k 7th - if they take the "good parts" of it and bring it over to 40k, well that's the way to go, IMO. No offence Atia but have you considered that a decent wedge of the 30K community WANT there to be a divide? But I doubt that's because of the factions or army lists or fluff, but an issue of gaming balance. *If* they would bring out all of the current armies with FW style 30k lists - would you complain about that? It really makes no sense to ban stuff that's active and kicking during 30k/HH/GS (f.e. Eldar, Orks, Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Squats, Daemons, Necrons, Grey Knights and Death Watch for Scouring/Beast Arises) and there is no need to make 30k some kind of "elitist" branche - it's just an expansion for 40k. Don't get me wrong, I don't want "power creep" in 30k - I want a balanced 40k with 30k as fluff/themed choice (similiar to lets say, Badab War), not another game system. Speaking about that, we really need Shadow War: Istvaan or something similiar for our 30k armies :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 We'll see I suppose. I'd hoped to have more of a discussion in this rather than once again a thread bemoaning possible negatives and painting players in broad brush strokes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I, for one, will applaud a new, simplified and streamlined ruleset. Logging onto the forums and seeing the endless stream of rules lawyering and twisting going on is making me depressed. I can't take it anymore. All I want to do is punch traitors in the genitals, see them driven before the golden throne, and hear the lamentation of their menials. And getting rid of all the circonstancial rules overlap cluster:cuss that warhammer 40k as become means we go AoS style, I am ok with it. I am tired of arguing what the intent is, how it actually applies as written, or if it's just a Matt Ward conspiracy theory. I want my games to go smoothly and just enjoy the heretic corpse pile at my feet. Is that too much to ask for a loyal son of the Emperor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 This is all a giant plan to make the wolves really good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Personally I hope they branch 30k out of 40k. It's been going this direction for some time- 40k is getting opened up, the fluff getting more silly, and the rules streamlined to appeal to a younger generation. 30k is the premium offering targeting the older hobbyists. Lots of companies do business this way. Regardless of what happens, this will be a serious test of how committed FW and GW are to supporting community. Given the company's history I can't say I'm very excited. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritual Liege Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'm not too excited either. Atleast I can play still play 7th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Personally I hope they branch 30k out of 40k. It's been going this direction for some time- 40k is getting opened up, the fluff getting more silly, and the rules streamlined to appeal to a younger generation. 30k is the premium offering targeting the older hobbyists. Lots of companies do business this way. Regardless of what happens, this will be a serious test of how committed FW and GW are to supporting community. Given the company's history I can't say I'm very excited. Given their recent history, there is hope yet. As someone who was rather salty for almost a decade, they are turning me around slowly but surely by making solid customer oriented moves. You have to give them that for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The way 40K armies are structured at the minute are a joke - the main draw of 30K is that it's taken away from the Power-gaming mentality that's prevalent in 40K right now. I know it's not universal but you'd be amazed at the number of people who find ways to take tiggy/Loth/an IH CH with Gorgon's chain on a bike and lots of Scars bikers and Ravenwing just because it's "fluffy" You are aware that most of that "power gaming mentality" isn't possible anymore in AoS currently, right? You even got points for formations, and themed armies (as in, if you only take one faction) get boni. You also can't take 20 heroes in your army anymore. Tbh AoS as it's currently is is 10x better balanced and plays smoother than 40k 7th - if they take the "good parts" of it and bring it over to 40k, well that's the way to go, IMO. No offence Atia but have you considered that a decent wedge of the 30K community WANT there to be a divide? But I doubt that's because of the factions or army lists or fluff, but an issue of gaming balance. *If* they would bring out all of the current armies with FW style 30k lists - would you complain about that? It really makes no sense to ban stuff that's active and kicking during 30k/HH/GS (f.e. Eldar, Orks, Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Squats, Daemons, Necrons, Grey Knights and Death Watch for Scouring/Beast Arises) and there is no need to make 30k some kind of "elitist" branche - it's just an expansion for 40k. Don't get me wrong, I don't want "power creep" in 30k - I want a balanced 40k with 30k as fluff/themed choice (similiar to lets say, Badab War), not another game system. Speaking about that, we really need Shadow War: Istvaan or something similiar for our 30k armies Yes I'm aware that there's "balance" in AoS but isn't that down to the unit design itself rather than the core ruleset? For me, I don't see the 7th Ed rules as inherently useless, in need of major reworking in a fair few cases yes, but not rebuilt from the ground up which is what this is threatening to be judging by the base rule changes all but confirmed so far, I'd much rather they spent their time gutting the codexes and binning off anything that breaks/ignores the baseline rules in all honesty. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on it for the time being, both want different things from the new edition :) We'll see I suppose. I'd hoped to have more of a discussion in this rather than once again a thread bemoaning possible negatives and painting players in broad brush strokes. In fairness mate you're getting a discussion - just because it's not all rainbows and happy faces doesn't make it any less valid. I'm actually liking seeing both sides of the coin in fairness. The optimism that a lot of people are showing is at least convincing me to have at least a dozen games or so before making any final decisions. I, for one, will applaud a new, simplified and streamlined ruleset. Armour save modifiers aren't really conducive to those last 2 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 This isnt the first edition change even the FW Heresy stuff has been through, no reason to believe things will be different this time around aside from wishlisting and wishlisting masquerading as rumours.I can hope FW keeps to their current formats and design philosophy at least, battlescrolls are such a pain in the behind to use compared to a decent Codex layout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_Dew Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 As for me, I think the movement changes are good, with luck it will be move X, run/charge X*2 or something no more random run or charge distances. Emphasis on themed armies, bit of a mixed bag to me, I like a themed army both from how they look and because they make sense to me but i think they shouldn't have bonuses as such more that the codex's should be written so that they are the armies that work. (such as the assault squads being a troop choice for BA's in the edition that is not talked about) 3 ways to play i think could be good, you want a quick game you only use the rules for that, you want a more in depth game where every move and thought is important then you have that option Armour save mods... I'm going to wait on the rules, for it could go either way Morale, the extra wounds from it kinda make sense but i think they should be allowed a save and maybe a rule for IG Commissars that goes along the lines of take a LD test if you pass take X amount of wounds with no saves instead if you fail the squad kills the Commissar and the whole squad is removed, if the squad doesn't have a Commissar it is done as normal. I think SM's might ignore it all together, maybe 'nids too if within X inches of a hive synapse thingy All in all it's a mixed bag Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Personally I hope they branch 30k out of 40k. It's been going this direction for some time- 40k is getting opened up, the fluff getting more silly, and the rules streamlined to appeal to a younger generation. 30k is the premium offering targeting the older hobbyists. Lots of companies do business this way. Regardless of what happens, this will be a serious test of how committed FW and GW are to supporting community. Given the company's history I can't say I'm very excited. Given their recent history, there is hope yet. As someone who was rather salty for almost a decade, they are turning me around slowly but surely by making solid customer oriented moves. You have to give them that for now. I feel you. For me though, one year of acting a bit different doesn’t really set any precedent. The way GW’s done business for the last 8+ years is why I’m not really excited. It’s not that I’m not looking forward to a new edition, I am, I just fully expect 30k support to be a total afterthought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Not just 30k I fear, but 40k fw as well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin138 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'm 100% on board with a more Age of Sigmar rule set across the board. Once the General's Handbook came out and the fixed the biggest issue with the game (matched play), it's solid. Fun and fast. It would work perfect for Horus Heresy. I've played every edition of 40k and WHFB from 3rd through AoS. This would be a very welcome and exciting change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The way 40K armies are structured at the minute are a joke - the main draw of 30K is that it's taken away from the Power-gaming mentality that's prevalent in 40K right now. I know it's not universal but you'd be amazed at the number of people who find ways to take tiggy/Loth/an IH CH with Gorgon's chain on a bike and lots of Scars bikers and Ravenwing just because it's "fluffy" You are aware that most of that "power gaming mentality" isn't possible anymore in AoS currently, right? You even got points for formations, and themed armies (as in, if you only take one faction) get boni. You also can't take 20 heroes in your army anymore. Tbh AoS as it's currently is is 10x better balanced and plays smoother than 40k 7th - if they take the "good parts" of it and bring it over to 40k, well that's the way to go, IMO. No offence Atia but have you considered that a decent wedge of the 30K community WANT there to be a divide? But I doubt that's because of the factions or army lists or fluff, but an issue of gaming balance. *If* they would bring out all of the current armies with FW style 30k lists - would you complain about that? It really makes no sense to ban stuff that's active and kicking during 30k/HH/GS (f.e. Eldar, Orks, Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Squats, Daemons, Necrons, Grey Knights and Death Watch for Scouring/Beast Arises) and there is no need to make 30k some kind of "elitist" branche - it's just an expansion for 40k. Don't get me wrong, I don't want "power creep" in 30k - I want a balanced 40k with 30k as fluff/themed choice (similiar to lets say, Badab War), not another game system. Speaking about that, we really need Shadow War: Istvaan or something similiar for our 30k armies Yes I'm aware that there's "balance" in AoS but isn't that down to the unit design itself rather than the core ruleset? For me, I don't see the 7th Ed rules as inherently useless, in need of major reworking in a fair few cases yes, but not rebuilt from the ground up which is what this is threatening to be judging by the base rule changes all but confirmed so far, I'd much rather they spent their time gutting the codexes and binning off anything that breaks/ignores the baseline rules in all honesty. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on it for the time being, both want different things from the new edition We'll see I suppose. I'd hoped to have more of a discussion in this rather than once again a thread bemoaning possible negatives and painting players in broad brush strokes. In fairness mate you're getting a discussion - just because it's not all rainbows and happy faces doesn't make it any less valid. I'm actually liking seeing both sides of the coin in fairness. The optimism that a lot of people are showing is at least convincing me to have at least a dozen games or so before making any final decisions. I, for one, will applaud a new, simplified and streamlined ruleset. Armour save modifiers aren't really conducive to those last 2 Compared to the to hit table and 15 thousand different weapon types APO values and initiative steps, I think it is. AoS close combat phase doesn't last half as long as a 40k one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Does anyone know when the new edition is dropping? The big store managers meeting at HQ has been pushed back by ~3 weeks which I've been told suggests a June release for 40k 8th edition. The earlier post hoping for 12 months of use from Inferno and the current rules I would say not even Bob Hope of that 8th is almost here for good or ill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I think I'll worry/cheer when an official publication is present and in my hands. Then I'll carry on and make it work because I love heresy. Failing that I'll enjoy flying dwarf boats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I think I'll worry/cheer when an official publication is present and in my hands. Then I'll carry on and make it work because I love heresy. Failing that I'll enjoy flying dwarf boats. Squats, they are squats! Oh there are going to be so many counts as armies of Squats when they are released ;) The only thing anyone can do is wait and see but I think we will be getting more from GW about 8th before it arrives. I don't see them allowing another square or round fan dance this time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corswain Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'm not really looking at the rules yet but the assault stuff does sound interesting. And to be honest, no matter what they do I'll still be on the Heresy Train, gleefully hurtling towards bankruptcy with my arms full of resin. I can see FW doing 8th Edition updates on the red books and FAQs on the black books. I'd be happy with that, black books are more about the fluff for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/2/#findComment-4693682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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