Brofist Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Here's what I'm looking forward to. GW puts out a 'convert your 7th edition rules to 8th edition rules' .pdf. Each time you play a game of 30k you need to look up your rules in 30k, convert them using a .pdf, and then look them up inside the new rulebook. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Polo Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Here's what I'm looking forward to. GW puts out a 'convert your 7th edition rules to 8th edition rules' .pdf. Each time you play a game of 30k you need to look up your rules in 30k, convert them using a .pdf, and then look them up inside the new rulebook. Hail Satan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693688 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The way 40K armies are structured at the minute are a joke - the main draw of 30K is that it's taken away from the Power-gaming mentality that's prevalent in 40K right now. I know it's not universal but you'd be amazed at the number of people who find ways to take tiggy/Loth/an IH CH with Gorgon's chain on a bike and lots of Scars bikers and Ravenwing just because it's "fluffy" You are aware that most of that "power gaming mentality" isn't possible anymore in AoS currently, right? You even got points for formations, and themed armies (as in, if you only take one faction) get boni. You also can't take 20 heroes in your army anymore. Tbh AoS as it's currently is is 10x better balanced and plays smoother than 40k 7th - if they take the "good parts" of it and bring it over to 40k, well that's the way to go, IMO. No offence Atia but have you considered that a decent wedge of the 30K community WANT there to be a divide? But I doubt that's because of the factions or army lists or fluff, but an issue of gaming balance. *If* they would bring out all of the current armies with FW style 30k lists - would you complain about that? It really makes no sense to ban stuff that's active and kicking during 30k/HH/GS (f.e. Eldar, Orks, Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Squats, Daemons, Necrons, Grey Knights and Death Watch for Scouring/Beast Arises) and there is no need to make 30k some kind of "elitist" branche - it's just an expansion for 40k. Don't get me wrong, I don't want "power creep" in 30k - I want a balanced 40k with 30k as fluff/themed choice (similiar to lets say, Badab War), not another game system. Speaking about that, we really need Shadow War: Istvaan or something similiar for our 30k armies If anyone has read any of my posts on threads dealing with the subject I absolutely agree with Atia here. Fixing up the 40k rule set with lessons they have learned from AoS is absolutely the best move and IMO will massively help out 30k as well. How nice will it be if taking blobs of marines is actually a good idea? OMG what if the changes actually make breachers and assault marines worth pulling out of the closet? I am much less optimistic on FW actually updating the rules though....based on their history of updating stuff I have a feeling we're going to have a weird period of limbo where we have no idea how the HH rule set is supposed to interact with 40k. Of course they have been more open about what they are working on as a whole but FW still hasn't been communicating their update plans very well Here's hoping I'm wrong and FW has absolutely been working on bringing everything over in a timely manner. Really HH is already positioned to have an even smoother update than 40k since they just have to release new red books. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 The assault rules are stupid. The armour modifier rules based on the Strength of the model and not the weapon are stupid. I'm happy to hear the rules are being streamlined for the younger audience (such as my son), but as I am an adult of sound mind and body and enjoy something more engrossing and challenging, I'd rather 30K started with 7th Edition as the base and FW was allowed to branch off from there. What I've seen of AoS I'm not impressed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This is totally a Henny Penny sky is calling thread. There's no way FW would release Inferno then turn around and go full postal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 While I'm actually looking forward to the new rules, something troubles me about the battleshock rule: - If you remove units from your squad if they fail a check, what happens with high point units like terminators? You invest a lot of points to get that nice save and they just run away lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This is totally a Henny Penny sky is calling thread. There's no way FW would release Inferno then turn around and go full postal. "There is no way GW would destroy the entire fantasy setting, right guys?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 It will all be down to army comp rules. If they stay as is, fine, if they are tossed out to go closer to what we already have with 7th (40K) and formations, I'm done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This is totally a Henny Penny sky is calling thread. There's no way FW would release Inferno then turn around and go full postal."There is no way GW would destroy the entire fantasy setting, right guys?" I laid it all down before . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4693865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 I bet the "Legiones Astartes" rule will have something to say about battleshock :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 So I started familiarizing myself with the AoS ruleset in an attempt to see what we could benefit from here in the AoD/Heresy setting. Movement: great idea, transports would potentially become worth their weight in gold Battleshock: take wounds by how much you failed your roll by, easy enough and not a horrible idea To hit: this is where things start getting fuzzy for me, a base "to hit" roll for the shooting phase? Fine, that's practically what the BS table is but simplified. Close combat is where I have the issue with this being a written stat, I find the WS table does a better job of showing the potential disparity in skill between a line marine and say a character like Sevatar. To wound: this is my biggest issue. The S/T table shows that some things are harder to hurt than others. I honestly like having some depth to the current game, yes it requires a bit more thinking but that's what I LIKE about playing the game, thinking! So really I'm hoping for a hybrid combination of what we already have with some of what AoS has, but we won't know until we know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Regarding Battleshock: If I got that right the loosing side throws a D6 add their Leadership and substract their losses, right? How often will that have an impact? SM all have at least 8 what means you have to take 10 casualties before anyone dies. Only huge units will suffer from that. AM I right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Regarding Battleshock: If I got that right the loosing side throws a D6 add their Leadership and substract their losses, right? How often will that have an impact? SM all have at least 8 what means you have to take 10 casualties before anyone dies. Only huge units will suffer from that. AM I right? Only if you would know the leadership value of Marines next edition^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Regarding Battleshock: If I got that right the loosing side throws a D6 add their Leadership and substract their losses, right? How often will that have an impact? SM all have at least 8 what means you have to take 10 casualties before anyone dies. Only huge units will suffer from that. AM I right? Iirc, you roll a d6 and add the number of units killed in that combat, then lose however many models you rolled over the bravery stat by. I'm just unsure as to what anot "average" bravery score looks like in AoS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxydo Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Regarding Battleshock: If I got that right the loosing side throws a D6 add their Leadership and substract their losses, right? How often will that have an impact? SM all have at least 8 what means you have to take 10 casualties before anyone dies. Only huge units will suffer from that. AM I right? I would consider it very doubtful if they would just translate the current leadership into bravery without changing the value. For instance Stormcast tends to have 6-7 Bravery, and they don't suffer from battleshock very often, partly due to multiple wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel Guy Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Look on the bright side, very soon militia conscripts will be hitting and wounding everything on 4s. That seems to be how AoS handles everything. It doesn't matter if you're hacking at Abaddon or a wet paper bag, he's still taking a hit and a wound on a 4+... Yay Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Regarding Battleshock: If I got that right the loosing side throws a D6 add their Leadership and substract their losses, right? How often will that have an impact? SM all have at least 8 what means you have to take 10 casualties before anyone dies. Only huge units will suffer from that. AM I right? Iirc, you roll a d6 and add the number of units killed in that combat, then lose however many models you rolled over the bravery stat by. I'm just unsure as to what anot "average" bravery score looks like in AoS. Stormcasts have a bravery stat of 7 for the most part but have a few abilities to basically ignore the phase, thing is those abilities aren't just automatic so you actually have to plan for it. Since the SCs are the Space Marine equivalent of AoS I expect it will be similar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Look on the bright side, very soon militia conscripts will be hitting and wounding everything on 4s. That seems to be how AoS handles everything. It doesn't matter if you're hacking at Abaddon or a wet paper bag, he's still taking a hit and a wound on a 4+... Yay Maybe wait to see how both GW and FW handle this before making so many "sky is falling" posts? IF this were a copy of AoS Abaddon would have a lot more wounds than that paper bag and would last a lot longer. Chances are the militia would be hitting most things on a 4 under the current system anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 The Warhammer Community posts never mentioned ditching the current stat-line. So all this worry about AoS style to hit and to wound mechanics is still conjecture. I desperately hope GW decides to keep str and toughness the same. I like AoS but the TH and TW mechanic is just straight up garbage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 With the Necromunda game keeping a statline, I think you can bet your bottom dollar that S/T/W are here to stay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 The Warhammer Community posts never mentioned ditching the current stat-line. So all this worry about AoS style to hit and to wound mechanics is still conjecture. I desperately hope GW decides to keep str and toughness the same. I like AoS but the TH and TW mechanic is just straight up garbage. How is the To Hit mechanic of AoS any different though? Especially with shooting our current system is just a more complicated version of just listing the needed to hit roll. In combat it's almost always a 3+ or a 4+ already, is the AoS stat really that different? They both just add totally needless complexity while not really adding anything IMO. Like how is a BS 4 needing a 3+ to hit because 7-4=3 better than just stating a 3+ to hit? The to wound chart is different and I'm not including that in my above comment. I am still more of a fan of AoS not needed that chart but I definitely see what it adds to the game and i don't really have a problem with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Why would release Inferno just prior to a major revision to 40k ? The two games are diverging. It's obvious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Why would release Inferno just prior to a major revision to 40k ? The two games are diverging. It's obvious. Because it's Forge World :p....also it was delayed quite a bit so it probably wasn't meant to come out right before 8th edition either. It could of course go either way, just saying the timing of the release of Inferno isn't really proof of anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I have faith unlike you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronin_cse Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I have faith unlike you. Well we just have faith in different things. I WANT these changes to come to 30k and I hope that FW will update HH to work with 8th :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/3/#findComment-4694513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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