BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Be careful what you ask... 30k is internally balanced unlike 40k currently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Be careful what you ask... 30k is internally balanced unlike 40k currently.I second that.It is a pitty that some of you guys only have 40k armies to play against. Luckily we have a strong group so that we don't have to wait for any update. Als in case the 8th suck like all rumors suggest we keep playing the 7th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Does no one see the backwardness in the arguments they need to update the lists so they can be used against 40k armies? They aren't meant to be used against 40k armies. They shouldn't even consider their use against 40k armies. It's just not good game design. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Well I spent hundreds if not thousands on units I can use in both systems so it's not unreasonable for myself and others to expect Forgeworld updates, and to worry about their potential delay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Does no one see the backwardness in the arguments they need to update the lists so they can be used against 40k armies? They aren't meant to be used against 40k armies. They shouldn't even consider their use against 40k armies. It's just not good game design. I agree 100%... it is selfishness on their part. Well I spent hundreds if not thousands on units I can use in both systems so it's not unreasonable for myself and others to expect Forgeworld updates, and to worry about their potential delay. You need to start converting some 40k players over to 30k. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Can we lower the 30k elitism a bit? I'm a die hard 30k and 40k player who puts a lot of effort in to the hobby. It's not right to dismiss the concern of various forum users, myself included. And converting people into 30k when 40k is going through a resurgence with great releases and a new edition on the horizon is not something to be expected from hobbyists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Lol I want to add that I have converted a bunch into 30k, but I still can't hook my best friend as he gets distracted by the constant 40k releases :-P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 So basically Rohr, what you are saying is that although FW themselves flat out state that the 40K BRB is the ruleset for playing 30K, we should just ignore it and continue using 7th edition? Sometimes we do not get to choose our opposition. If I go to the store for a pick-up game and it happens to be 40K only, should I walk out because they are not 30K players? I am not going all "oh the sky is falling woe is me no update for 8th before it is here...", all I am saying is that it would be good to have the update for our armies to remain current with the new BRB (if/when 8th becomes a thing) so that I can have the opportunity to face not just other 40K marines, but eldar orks etc, who are also in the 30K universe story wise, but do not have a 30K set of rules (who knows they may never get rules for 30K). Btw I run windows 10, so I think I am up to date ;) Like Ishagu, spending loads of money on models and finding you cannot use them with a vast group of the community would be very unsettling, especially as a lot of folks get into 30K by seeing all the cool armies and playing against some of them... Probably while using their 40K army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 You guys are making apples to oranges comparisons. This is like playing multiplayer on some online games. 30k and 40k are as different as like Halo 2 and Halo 3. Same company, same engine, different mechanics. While you can't actually play halo 2 against halo 3, you can play 30k against 40k, because the 'source code' is similar. But asking FW to balance or update 30k to keep pace with 40k is pointless because 30k can run fine on 7th while they balance the lists for 8th to be released in the future. The argument here is basically I need to be able to play against eldar and tau. No you don't. You don't need that at all. You want that. Forge world will update Heresy for Heresy games. Not so you can play eldar. It's not a valid use of their time. Two separate games for all intents and purposes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I agree... it is kind of like wanting to be able to play chess versus checkers to a degree. FW will not take it serious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 There are very few difference between the two and currently 30 and 40k play together seamlessly. I have been doing it exclusively for the last 4 years, played against every army/race out there and never had a hiccup. They have formations, we have ROW and some slightly different scoring rules, that's about it. Its simply a different army list for the same game. You are lucky you have a group of other 30k players, that's most likely an uncommon thing vs the majority of us who don't. We need, not want, NEED to be able to pick up and play against 40k armies because that's all there is for us. Its easy for you and the Die Antword guy there to say make communities of 30k especially if you are already in an active community. Not going to happen for the rest of us. People who are interested will play, most will play 40k armies. If communities didn't start from the Betrayal box set, they sure as hell aren't going to start now. We aren't talking small amounts of money here for a fringe sub-game in a fringe hobby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 There are very few difference between the two and currently 30 and 40k play together seamlessly. I have been doing it exclusively for the last 4 years, played against every army/race out there and never had a hiccup. They have formations, we have ROW and some slightly different scoring rules, that's about it. Its simply a different army list for the same game. You are lucky you have a group of other 30k players, that's most likely an uncommon thing vs the majority of us who don't. We need, not want, NEED to be able to pick up and play against 40k armies because that's all there is for us. Its easy for you and the Die Antword guy there to say make communities of 30k especially if you are already in an active community. Not going to happen for the rest of us. People who are interested will play, most will play 40k armies. If communities didn't start from the Betrayal box set, they sure as hell aren't going to start now. We aren't talking small amounts of money here for a fringe sub-game in a fringe hobby. Do you understand they are not responsible for your local gaming scene? As much as it sucks, that's not an issue for them. Is it their responsibility to worry about gaming scenes in Africa and the Middle East? I promise you there aren't many gaming groups there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Somewhat radical suggestion now, just hear me out: we wait to see what actually happens first instead of using some incredibly limited information to assume what's going to happen. To quote black adder "assumption is the mother of all :cuss ups" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 True they aren't, but they are supported by money which they wont get if large numbers of people aren't able to play their game. Having a 30k community is a luxury and not a common one. Helter- what this comes down to is FW, despite attempts by many people to get even a glimmer of assurance that things are or are not being taken care of, are failing to give any info at all. Not asking for game or rules information. Just something that says, "Hey, don't worry guys, your stuff will be playable day 1" or "Don't worry guys, we have exciting updates planned over the next 5 years for all of our books, just you wait." I actually like the rumored new rules for the most part, I just want to know if my armies are going to be playable or not, especially for any opening day events like in years past. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Im not trying to bust your nuts, Galron. I'm pointing out this the incompatibility between 30K and 40K is an externality for them at the moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Best to just be patient. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Really wish they would give us a date so I can tell my wife so she doesn't schedule anything that Saturday since she plans crap out two to three months in advance. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Does no one see the backwardness in the arguments they need to update the lists so they can be used against 40k armies? They aren't meant to be used against 40k armies. They shouldn't even consider their use against 40k armies. It's just not good game design. I agree 100%... it is selfishness on their part. Well I spent hundreds if not thousands on units I can use in both systems so it's not unreasonable for myself and others to expect Forgeworld updates, and to worry about their potential delay. You need to start converting some 40k players over to 30k. But if those players only play Xenos? guess we have an arbitrary barrier to entry for them eh? and lol "selfishness" to want a community of decent players? Please have perspective. The 30k community is a tiny niche within the gaming community of a niche wargame, and while I am relatively lucky that out of the 6 regular opponents i have on a consistent basis 4 of them are into Horus Heresy in Addition to their standard 40k fair, what of the other 2 players? ostracize or beat till morale improves....... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 It's not a niche in every area. There are many who play in my area (SD). It's also very popular in UK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I think I will agree to disagree with BO and MR for now about the need for FAQ's if/when 8th edition arrives and let it rest there. Besides until 8th is confirmed and released, plus FW tell us what is happening 1 way or the other for 30K, any debate or argument over FAQ's is a complete waste of time. FW are well within their rights to keep quiet for now as 8th is still a ghost, so by confirming it is coming or saying "FAQ's will be ready at X date" or "no we are not updating HH to match 8th edition" date would be a massive spoiler for GW and could wreck sales. I say drop it and can the topic until 8th comes and we actually get some news from FW about updates and FAQ's Personally having just got Inferno, which needs a massive FAQ to work for 7th ed, to then need another FAQ in a few months time again to re-fix it for 8th would leave me highly hacked off... That book weren't cheap, even if some pages have spelling mistakes, pages marked by printing press :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4710950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 It is like no one remembers the panic attacks of 5th, 6th, and 7th. Seriously, lather, rinse, repeat all over again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4711515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Agreed, Its just the standard "we dont know!!!" panic. Especially following AOS I understand the reservations completely, but 7th needs the help (it needs a trimming with some sheers, not a flamethrower) I am overall fairly excited to see where it goes, 40k is their flagship product, they ain't sinking that boat! ;-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4711548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 40k needs help not 30k. We shall see what we see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4711562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 40k needs help not 30k. We shall see what we see. 30k needs the help, there are many basic mechanics issues that require intense player restraint. The basic tactical squad is a good example of a whole being the less that the sum of its parts. Much can be done to resolve this with objective intense games, and no kill points, but the fact remains as a game 30k has some structural issue that I'm willing to let 8th edition solve. The Battle Plans in the General's Handbook are quite good at forcing certain types of units on armies, but also giving said units an actual role to fill in the game. Where as in 30k the core strength of the Tactical squad is washed out by the avalanche of units available as Troops or with Implacable Advance outside of the Troops slot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4711572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Black Orange, you talk about 30k as if it's a model of perfection, but let's not forget that Inferno introduced a power Creep not seen in the Heresy before, whilst some units remain useless and forgotten. We knew 7th would be an update of 6th, but it's possible that 8th will completely rework the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332305-8th-edition-the-hh/page/7/#findComment-4711575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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