8th Edition & The HH

[Memento Of Prospero]

Black Orange, you talk about 30k as if it's a model of perfection, but let's not forget that Inferno introduced a power Creep not seen in the Heresy before, whilst some units remain useless and forgotten.

 

We knew 7th would be an update of 6th, but it's possible that 8th will completely rework the game.

It's only power creep if you game to be competitive. Which is not spirit of this game.

[Dantay VI]

Thats like sayning we should play Inferno and just lett the loyalists win because its in the fluff.

 

What is the point of playing if you are not trying to win (or re-write history) or whatever you want to call it?

 

There has t be an element of competitiveness to it.

 

Btw it is only power creep if you play T-Sons :P

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Exactly Wolf_Pack and they can be beaten as well .

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Personally I hope that HH is ported over to 8th and I'm hoping 8th brings some semblance of balance between 40k codices that will make for a more balanced experience should someone choose to play Xenos against a Legion. For me, It is nice to break up fighting only Imperium forces (or give me an excuse to try one of my Xenos armies against a legion for the hell of it) and create a narrative campaign against races that were a problem in the times of the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy. Variety is a spice of life and while I do have a number of 30k players in my area I find throwing in the occasional Xenos to be a good change of pace.

 

Are the "systems" balanced against each other, no, but maybe the divide will be less in the new edition (I hope this is the case) and allow for more enjoyable games should people choose to cross over for a game or two. Also I loath to think of the errors in rule writing that might creep up on models when you have interns juggling two different rule sets for the same miniatures that are sold for both 40k games and 30k.

 

Edit: Rephrased to hopefully make it more clear as it was very poorly written before.

[Brofist]

This isn't about the usual new edition drama. It's about how FW/GW will support an associated game that, for better or for worse, is associated to their core rules.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

40k has nothing to do with 30k in terms of development... that makes no sense at all.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I am not saying you should not try to win games, a healthy dose of competition is great to forge narratives and camaraderie it's a game after all. However, the levels of competitive balance some of the recent inductii require will never be there and was never there. The Horus Heresy and Alan Blight's discourse on the subject are very clear. It's a historical setting, like it or not. That's what makes it so great, and not just 40k with different models. To pursue what made 40k a mess is just not logical nor healthy for the setting.

 

If you were under the impression that 30k would drive your competitive needs because it had a better internal balance that 40k currently lacks, you were sold a side-effect of the game design, not and an the intended selling point.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

40k has nothing to do with 30k in terms of development... that makes no sense at all.

What do you mean it has nothing to do with 30k development? 30k still uses the core rules of 40k in the development of their own rules (stat lines are effected by the way that the core rules dictate the weapons and units operate for instance). Either FW would have to start to publish their own core rule book or 30k has to be adapted to the new core rules. The way the 30k armies function may be different than their codex brothers but in the end, if they are not going to publish their own, FW will be subjected to the changes in the core game of 40k. I highly doubt that GW will continue to publish the outdated rule book just for those who are playing 30k and I doubt the FW team is going to take up writing their own core rules.

 

On a side note I rephrased my post previous to this one to try and make it more clear.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Comparing 30k to 40k is a pointless exercise. It's f00z game I won't engage. 30k was never ever designed as a system to interact with 40k in terms of one army versus another. Yes you can play 30k versus 40k but in order to do so you must be willing to make some compromises. There has never been a FW or GW FAQ with rules how they should interact nor will there ever be. 10000 years is a long long time.

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

And if 8th edition changes the way things work in the core rules then FW needs to change the 30k rules to match those changes (to maintain balance). That is all I'm talking about in the end. If FW is not going to develop their own Core Rules then they can't just stay behind in 7th edition but must adapt their rules to 8th (7th edition will no longer be sold by GW). The common core rules allow for easier integration for a game if that is what the people wish to do, most people are intelligent enough to tweak the things that need to be to get it to work with very little trouble when using the same core rules. Depending on what exactly happens with 8th, if FW doesn't adapt to it and keeps using Warhammer 40k core rules (which will be 8th) then you could even find the armies no longer being as decently balanced as they are now.

 

By the way, both Eldar and Orks are pretty much established as recognizable to their 40k counter parts by the Horus Heresy. Ork would have had plenty of human scrap to build from and the Eldar lost much of their ability to advance when their Empire fell and spend the next 10k years trying to survive and rebuild the knowledge they had prior to it.

 

Keep in mind that what ever path FW takes they will be dealing with writing rules in 8th (even if it isn't for HH) as many of their products are sold to also be used by armies in 40k.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here are some decent rumors about 8th gathered at Adepticon...

 

https://youtu.be/APVJADDH9-k

 

Seems like it will be easy to patch overall.

[Sol_Invictus]

Any chance of a write up for those of us who hate to have to watch a video for information that would take < 30 seconds to read?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Every unit has its own movement distance

 

Ranged weapons modify armor saves - example, heavy bolter is -1 so a Space Marine in power armor has 4+ save

 

Charging unit swings first round of melee, even unwieldy weapons - so a sergeant with a power fist can win a challenge versus a Praetor with a Paragon Blade

 

If a unit uses loses combat it must take a number of saves equal to adjusted leadership minus unsaved wounds taken (5th edition)

 

Phases remain pretty much the same (e.g., movement, psychic, etc.)

[Sol_Invictus]

Thanks for the write up. :)

 

Nothing on there sounds terrible to me.

[Dantay VI]

Actually with the hitting first for charging..... Might make more CC armies viable/popular :)

[Huggtand]

More or less like 2 edition then.

I have not played much since the 90s so it will at least feel familiar

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Two of the mechanics are taken from 2nd edition but applied now would speed up games. It would be cool if units like say Inductii have a base movement of 8 inches.

[Gorgoff]

Two of the mechanics are taken from 2nd edition but applied now would speed up games. It would be cool if units like say Inductii have a base movement of 8 inches.

Inductii are no unit type. They are Marines who get special rules by a special character so no, unless GW (and FW) Start making those AoS battlescroll bull:cuss a thing, they'll have 4" movement like almost all infantry had back in second edition.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Comparing 30k to 40k is a pointless exercise. It's f00z game I won't engage. 30k was never ever designed as a system to interact with 40k in terms of one army versus another. Yes you can play 30k versus 40k but in order to do so you must be willing to make some compromises. There has never been a FW or GW FAQ with rules how they should interact nor will there ever be. 10000 years is a long long time.

 

The line of reasoning here is a tad ridiculous.  The games are all but 100% compatible in the first place......the game of 40k is balanced around T4 3+ armor save models, well horus heresy just so happens to be filled to the brim with them. 

 

I have played *literally* hundreds of games of 30k vs 40k, from all kinds of legions.  There really aren't very many idiosyncrasies and none that detract majorly from gameplay.  10,000 years may be along time, but a gauss weapon, shuriken catapult, or bio-weapon will always be just that ;-) 

 

They play perfectly together anywho, and alan bligh assuaged many a fear when he stated they would always be in line, thankfully. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

All these supposed things Alan has said... lol. Anyways I'll stand by everything I said in regards to 30k versus 40k... every time you compromise a rule your game goes off further in its own direction from intent but hey I guess that's okay since you're forging a narrative.

 

Two of the mechanics are taken from 2nd edition but applied now would speed up games. It would be cool if units like say Inductii have a base movement of 8 inches.

Inductii are no unit type. They are Marines who get special rules by a special character so no, unless GW (and FW) Start making those AoS battlescroll bull:cuss a thing, they'll have 4" movement like almost all infantry had back in second edition.

You missed the point... it was just an example of what could be.

[Ishagu]

That video from Jay was just random speculations, no confirmations.

 

Also, Jay is rather annoying.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Some of it matches what GW announced and the rest he said they told him. I'd take the announcements as facts and what was told as valid as any what Alan seds.

[Brofist]

Should be a quick patch, changing up all those mechanics. They might need a few years to polish it up and balance it out, just like Inferno.

[Marshal Loss]

Fingers crossed they take the time to fix the 'eternally garbage units' in the changeover - Rampagers, Destroyers etc

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We can always hope. :)