Grey Knights in Shadow Wars

[SyNidus]

Yes you can actually recruit more men through the course of the campaign, but as Prot pointed out, you'll need to spend promethium to boost your points from 100 to 200 instead.

My local GW has started the campaign and i've just signed up with the following list:

Justicar
GK Trooper

GK Trooper

GK Gunner
GK Gunner

Total: 1000

My reasoning for this was that as the campaign progresses, it'll actually be easier for me to buy more equipment for them, rather than having to spend promethium in order to recruit another. On paper, this seems a rather weak list, however taking into account the fact that at these early stages we have a significant quality advantage (Stormbolters, native S4, Power Armour), i reckon i get get my first victory easily enough to kit out the team.

BTW, we can only have a maximum of 2 specialists (i.e. GK Gunners), hence my thought of taking 2, at least it gives me the option to pick up incinerators later on. However, i am also split with whether or not i should replace 1 Gunner with a trooper, leaving me 25 points with which to buy my gunner some psybolt ammo.

[Gentlemanloser]

You only get the 'free' 100 points at the end of a mission if your Leader is still alive.

 

It's reportedly hard to have someone outright killed, but if your Leader is killed, you will need to lose two matches to spend two promethean caches to get the 200 points to recruit a new GK.

 

Also, you can't Recruit and Rearm at the same time, so unless you spend those 200 points exactly (on someone like a gunner) you lose whatever is left over.

 

It would also seem, but I can't confirm this, you cannot recruit a new GK with additional equipment.

 

Basically, don't lose  your Justicar. ;)  Or on the other hand, if you want to scupper your opponent, do everything you can to kill their Leader.  Win or lose the Match, you'll probably come out ahead in the long run if you kill your opponents Leader.

[Kilofix]

Yes you can actually recruit more men through the course of the campaign, but as Prot pointed out, you'll need to spend promethium to boost your points from 100 to 200 instead.

My local GW has started the campaign and i've just signed up with the following list:

Justicar

GK Trooper

GK Trooper

GK Gunner

GK Gunner

Total: 1000

My reasoning for this was that as the campaign progresses, it'll actually be easier for me to buy more equipment for them, rather than having to spend promethium in order to recruit another. On paper, this seems a rather weak list, however taking into account the fact that at these early stages we have a significant quality advantage (Stormbolters, native S4, Power Armour), i reckon i get get my first victory easily enough to kit out the team.

BTW, we can only have a maximum of 2 specialists (i.e. GK Gunners), hence my thought of taking 2, at least it gives me the option to pick up incinerators later on. However, i am also split with whether or not i should replace 1 Gunner with a trooper, leaving me 25 points with which to buy my gunner some psybolt ammo.

Remember you must buy close combat weapons for all of them.

[Prot]

Yes you can actually recruit more men through the course of the campaign, but as Prot pointed out, you'll need to spend promethium to boost your points from 100 to 200 instead.

My local GW has started the campaign and i've just signed up with the following list:

Justicar

GK Trooper

GK Trooper

GK Gunner

GK Gunner

Total: 1000

My reasoning for this was that as the campaign progresses, it'll actually be easier for me to buy more equipment for them, rather than having to spend promethium in order to recruit another. On paper, this seems a rather weak list, however taking into account the fact that at these early stages we have a significant quality advantage (Stormbolters, native S4, Power Armour), i reckon i get get my first victory easily enough to kit out the team.

BTW, we can only have a maximum of 2 specialists (i.e. GK Gunners), hence my thought of taking 2, at least it gives me the option to pick up incinerators later on. However, i am also split with whether or not i should replace 1 Gunner with a trooper, leaving me 25 points with which to buy my gunner some psybolt ammo.

Remember you must buy close combat weapons for all of them.

I don't think the gunner has to unless he isn't taking a special weapon.

- Ignore the fact they're Purifiers (I didn't want to bring too many WIP models.

I went with 3 dudes and the Psilencer was good... very good.

I lost against the Deathguard, but really I realized I messed up in my first list.

I am signed up with this army but not too sure about the list. Grey Knights have some very cool weapons and the psychic powers (Astral Aim especially) feels good.

The games are built to be very fast, and I think a 'win' is extremely possible by the weakest army out there simply by causing a "bottle test". Since my list is 3 guys, anyone pinned is causing me a test.

While it's very easy to go down (pinned) Space marines all get a test at the start of their turn where other armies are stuck at the end of their turn. (I think)

The multi shot weapons are very good in this game, but where I made my mistake is buying anything above the basics for the models except the gunner of course. I'm glad I gave him a clip harness so he can be perched for LoS.

I'd go very, very basic. The units are more expensive but we get Stormbolters which are actually quite good.

I lost in Turn 5 and bottled out. I had to get the single Promethium Cache in the middle and I sent my leader out to do it. He ended up going down, getting wounded, but at the end of the game he was fine.

One of your non-wounded guys get to advance. I picked the gunner, rolled on the chart, he now has 2 wounds for the campaign! (I have no idea how that plays out though in the game.)

Chaos was really good but cultists are glass. In T3 I managed enough wounds on the Deathguard to force a bottle test which he almost failed, and at the time my leader was sitting on the Promethium. So it would have been a D3 +1 Promethium Cache win, but my opponent took my leader down, he snagged it instead and got a great bundle of promethium.

It was enjoyable, and I think we actually had one of the longer games I've seen and it was maybe... 20 mins? A bit longer? Lots of fun, and I can really see how this is built to get you to grow your chapter, have some character, and (sadly) watch some potential cool characters die off in the process.

[Prot]

So I missed my next Campaign day at the GW due to personal reasons, but my list (I can see now) is kind of bad. I'm stuck with it now, but upgrading Grey Knights might be my biggest issue with the system. There's really only one Grey Knight that you can add to your team (so far that I can see).

 

In the meanwhile, don't know if anyone is interested but I did finish my terrain in 2 days, and plopped some GK on it for some pics:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332907-prots-shadow-war-terrain-configurations-and-scale/?p=4709668

[Gentlemanloser]

Prot, it's been mentioned there are Narrative events that award more points, and there's always the Scavenger skill (which gives 50 points at the end of a mission if the guy with the skill is still active).

 

It looks like to replace a Gunner we'd need (ignoring Narrative Events) the 100 points from having our Leader alive, 100 points from the single Cache you can 'cash' in, and 50 points from having a Scavenger.

 

Edit: It would seem the best design for GK lists is to always start with your Leader and two Gunners.

 

And recruit Troopers as and when you can afford them.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Prot]

Yup and I agree. I screwed up by not starting with 2 gunners. I'm in two campaigns. The GW one is locked up but I may request a restart.

 

I had a loss but still had enough to gain a new Grey Knight. The scenario I played had D3 bonus Promethium in the game itself. I lost so got no bonuses but I was thinking it's too bad I can't leverage that for more dudes.

 

I think if I do Grey Knights for my other Campaign, I will definitely do two Gunners. Like I said elsewhere at the very least a Gunner (grey knight gunner) must have a close combat weapon. The cheapest being a Stave.

 

There are boons though. Like Astral Aim is great... with a Photo-visor is very good. The sustained fire on my Psilencer pretty much makes it deadly. I've seen others have great results (because of "impact") from the other weapons.

[Phiasco]

Is it possible to start with only a Justicar and two gunners? I thought you had to take at least one troop choice?

[Prot]

I think you can. I'm not seeing anything other than you must have a leader.

[Prot]

Well I got a new list made up for my second league which will start tonight.

 

The great thing is (as I hoped) that this will get me painting Grey Knights again. And even perhaps making units that I didn't before.

 

Some viable suggestions I have would be looking closer at:

- Psilencer armed GK. These are great, and literally can't run out of ammo on ammo checks. I've nailed some units with it in Shadow Wars.

- Psycannon armed GK. You get greater damage, and it is Impact I believe (on a 5 or 6 on the wound chart results in 'removed from play'. (I think) But it can more easily run out of ammo.

 

Don't forget Astral Aim is unique to us. We may pay more but the amount of cover in this game is nearly always in play. So you aren't buying wargear to mitigate cover with this psychic power.

 

My new list incorporates 2 gunners because as mentioned they are super hard to reintegrate into the team.

 

On a side note the 100 points you get if your leader is alive at the end of a mission helps a lot (win or lose) BUT please not if your leader dies, you simply promote another dude to be your leader in the next game.

[Phiasco]

Does our Nemesis Sword really ha a -6 armor modifier? (-3 for the str 6 and then -3 from the weapon stat) Because if so, nothing should be surviving close combat with us.

[Prot]

Does our Nemesis Sword really ha a -6 armor modifier? (-3 for the str 6 and then -3 from the weapon stat) Because if so, nothing should be surviving close combat with us.

 

Well it does have parry.

 

The big thing is hitting though. Yes you will probably smoke something without a invuln, however it seems hitting is a bit a matter of luck. You are rolling D6's and adding your WS but every 1 you roll in a 'fumble of your weapon' and counts towards your opponent's total!

[Kilofix]

I just realized; how can one recruit any new GKs if you can only recruit or rearm, but not both; when every new GK requires that you buy a cc weapon?

 

I'm assuming there's an unwritten exception where you must and can buy only a cc weapon in this case?

[Prot]

When you purchase a guy you are purchasing his gear at the same time. When you re-arm you are improving the load out of one or several of your fighters.

 

That's the way I read it but I could be wrong. You'd have to allow the mandatory purchases at the very least. So I I,Aline even the hardline interpretation would say just the gunner and a Stave I suppose.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Prot

[Brother Tyler]

My hard line interpretation would be that you can take a Grey Knight (Trooper) w/ Nemesis force stave for 200 points under the "Recruit" option.

 

I still can't see any way to make a starting Grey Knights list at more than four models. The cheapest option is a Justicar and three Grey Knights, each equipped with a Nemesis warding stave. That comes out to 875 points, giving you room for weapons and equipment. I'd rather bump it up to one or two gunners (adding 25 points or 50 points, respectively) in order to have better rearm options later. I suppose that maximum fifth model is simply a "recruit" option.

 

I'm adjusting my starting list to:

• Justicar (Leader) w/ Nemesis force sword
• Grey Knight (Trooper) w/ Nemesis force stave
• Grey Knight Gunner (Specialist) w/ Nemesis force stave and telescopic sight
• Grey Knight Gunner (Specialist) w/ Nemesis force stave and telescopic sight

That's 1,000 points exactly, assuming my math is correct.

 

My intent would be to up-arm the gunners as I get the points, going for a psilencer and a psycannon. Then I'd look to recruit another Grey Knight and eventually up-arming the Justicar and the Grey Knights to better weapons and equipment. Along the way, I'd go for whatever equipment seems appropriate depending on the meta.

 

The WYSIWYG rule means I'd need some additional models in order to have some flexibility as a campaign progresses.

 

Leader variants would include the sword (starting version), halberd, and hammer.

 

Grey Knight (Trooper) variants would include the warding stave (starting version), falchions, sword, and halberd.

 

Grey Knight Gunners would include the warding stave (starting version) and one each of the psilencer and psycannon. Since my guys aren't really Grey Knights, however, I might have to follow Brule's lead and use the Ryu stance (I prefer to call mine the Goku stance ).

 

And then I have to consider the special operatives. Dangit.

 

First things first, though - I've got to get the basic kill team done.

[Prot]

I have found the same thing on model count, but my math might be way off but I was starting with two gunners in one campaign.

[Ioldanach]

I might have to follow Brule's lead and use the Ryu stance (I prefer to call mine the Goku stance ).

 

Funny you should bring that up. With the recent revelation that there will be a separately available rulebook (I wasn't able to get a boxed set ) and the inclusion of the Inquisition therein, I'll be switching back to my force in development, hopefully including my "Dark Lord of the Inquisition" in the kill team.

 

I'll save the Legio B&C kill team for later (hopefully after we get power armored Space Marine rules).

 

So I guess I have to drop out of this discussion.

[Brother Tyler]

As I've been quietly planning my "GK" SWA kill team, I've come to realization that my Nova Hawks won't work due to the background of the Chapter. They work well enough for Kill Team kill teams , but that's because psyker powers and force weapons don't work in that game. The GK do have nifty psyker stuff in SWA, though, so I can't handwave them away.

 

So I'm going to steal borrow Brule's idea to use the GK rules for a Legio B&C kill team. It's cool that others are doing it and all, but if anyone should be making a Legio B&C kill team, I'm definitely on the short list. I'll keep the tactics/army list discussion to this topic since I'm using GK rules, but I'm taking the modeling portion to the Other Games forum (I'd hate to sully this forum with non-Grey Knights Grey Knights ).

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So my store is startign a league, I'm thinking of going with this:
Justicar with Nemesis sword, frag grenades and telescopic sight
Gunner with telescopic sight, red dot and Psycannon
Grey knight with stave and telscopic sight
990pts, should I get a clip harness? (not sure what it does) or maybe drop the red dot on the gunner and give the justicar psybolts?

[Prot]

A clip is a must for a gunner IMHO especially if you are playing in a good terrain setting. It prevents tests on falling off an edge if you get hit. Falling... as the word suggests, really sucks. :)
 

[Happy-inquisitor]

Played a couple of games today. What I took:

Justicar, Sword

Grey Knight, Falchions

Grey Knight, Falchions

Gunner, Psybolts, Falchions, Red-dot laser sight

 

First game was against Tau and I was attacker. I got lucky and got to deploy all of my guys and had to pick a model to kill so selected his Recon Drone which I had seen him play quite aggressively in another game.

My Justicar got put down on the first turn and spent the rest of the game bleeding slowly. Meanwhile I caught the Drone in combat but then spent 3 turns not hurting it until a second GK piled in and finally I finished the job.

 

Second game against Harlequins, 5 objectives on the table and he won the roll to go first.

Short version, I managed to catch one of those pesky elf ninja dancers and he exploded into confetti in combat but the rest of them were just too danged fast for me. My shooting just could not do enough to slow them down or stop them.

 

My overall feeling is that GK are OK in SWA but that Harlequins are going to be really rough in a lot of the scenarios. If I had played Harlies in the first scenario I would have had a decent chance, in a game of run around and collect the loot they were just too fast for me to compete. If I'm honest I do not feel too bad about Harlies having a moment of being actually good because lets face it they are not in 40K.

[Gentlemanloser]

I have an unresolved hatred of Harlequins from the old 4th Edition flying Circus...

 

I hope none of you guys had the, fortune, to play them back then...

 

Veil of Tears ment you couldn't shoot them (it was a supped up Shrouding!), they ignored Cover/Terrain so you couldn't slow them.

 

They rended on To-Hit rolls.  And consolidated from one CC into another (so tied your units up).  On their turn after, they would hit & run out, and charge back in.  Kill the unit they charged, and consolidate into the next.

 

Rinse repeat.

 

If the Eldar player was feeling lazy, they would also use Falcons (not wave serpents), who could transport the Harlies, were near enough invulnerable to all damage (go go broken holo-fields) and could star engine / Tank shock you to contest/win objectives last turn.

 

If you had anything left after the Harlies had run through your lines...

 

Seriously un fun back them.

 

Way of the Water Warrior?  Those Falcons contained Fire Dragons as the Harlies foot slog across the board in safety with VoT and Fleet.  Bye bye Land Raiders.

[Hod]

I have a few questions about equipping Grey Knights that I didn't see answered previously (sorry if I missed them).

1. In re-equipping, if you give a Gunner who already has a H2H weapon a Psycannon, does he keep the H2H weapon?

2. In re-equipping, can I give a Grey Knight who already had a stave, a pair of Falchions, does he keeps both (so he has the invulnerable save and two parries)?

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Hod

[Brother Tyler]

1. In re-equipping, if you give a Gunner who already has a H2H weapon a Psycannon, does he keep the H2H weapon?

The entry for the Grey Knight Gunner says that they "must either be armed with one item chosen from the Grey Knights Hand-to-Hand Weapons list or replace with [sic] their storm bolter with one item chosen from the Grey Knights Special Weapons list."

 

Emphasis added.

 

So if you have a Grey Knight Gunner equipped with, say, a Nemesis warding stave and, during a (post-game) Rearm action you give him a Psycannon, the model loses the hand-to-hand weapon.

 

2. In re-equipping, can I give a Grey Knight who already had a stave, a pair of Falchions, does he keeps both (so he has the invulnerable save and two parries)?

The entry for the Grey Knight says that they "must be armed with one item chosen from the Grey Knights Hand-to-Hand Weapons list."

 

Emphasis added.

 

So the model can have either the Nemesis warding stave or the pair of Nemesis falchions, not both.

[Hod]

Thanks Tyler, I didn't know if those rules in the book just referred to the original purchasing of yours troops or re-arming as well.