Reader's Notes

[simison]

Given all of the posting I've been doing while reading Inferno, I thought it might be wise to pool it altogether in one spot so that it doesn't get swallowed up by the leviathan that is the General Discussion thread. I'm specifically making notes about statements and information that could be pertinent to BotL.

 

To begin with, there are apparently three classes of stormbirds used in the Battle of Prospero: Sokar, Khonsou, and Apophis, aka Sunkillers. From left to right, Sokar are the smallest, while the Apopohis are the largest.

 

Has anyone heard of the latter two patterns?

 

 

EDIT:

 

List of Open Battles

• Compliance of Cazhat - Time: Late Great Crusade. Location: Desert, feudal world with small human population anchored to the planet's few oases. Interesting note, the Imperium couldn't overawe them into compliance as the Czahat elders deemed the Imperium 'impure'. The Thousand Sons win by using magic to make the largest oases disappear breaking the population's will to fight. Recommended Legion: Dune Serpents
• Prisoa Campaign - Time: Mid-to-late Great Crusade. Location: 'the edge of the Segmentum Pacificus'. Opposition Forces: Prisoan Hybrid, tech-advanced yet 'morally corrupt' pocket empire. Two named planets: Mih'savoh ("outer capital world") & Mend'iShar. Additional Details: "Campaign was a brief but bloody affair. Recommended Legion: Wardens of Light
• Rovacallii & New Carthage 'aerial' wars - That's all there is. Recommended Legion: Void Eagles
• Xantriss Insurrection - Time: 999.M30. Location: Feral 'inhospitable' moon Xantriss. Opposition Forces: Rogue Imperial Army battalion, led by Colonel-turned-King. Additional Details: Fighting occurs mostly in subterranean passages. Recommended Legion: The Drowned
• Battle Against the Barghesi - Time: 955.M30. Location: Unknown. Opposition Forces: The xenos Barghesi. Additional Details: This xenos wiped out most of a White Scars Brotherhood. Recommended Legion: Any.

Edited May 15, 2017 by simison

[Olis]

Has anyone heard of the latter two patterns?

 

Afaik, those two names are new for the publication. Only the Sokar has been around prior to Inferno. Before that, Stormbirds haven't been mentioned by class. 

[bluntblade]

Interesting. Also, Massacre mentions Indomitus-pattern TDA

[Olis]

Interesting. Also, Massacre mentions Indomitus-pattern TDA

 

Uh, Indomitus is just the regular TDA that has been in 40k for decades. 

[simison]

Thanks, that was my impression as well. I wonder if the Apophis looks like the old black-and-white image of a Stormbird, the one with the two attached engines on the flanks.

 

Anyway, here are the rest of my notes so far:

 

Heretek Omega: Apparently, it's a secret code phrase in the Mechanicum that signals tech-blasphemy of the highest degree. When this signal is sent, the Mechanicum is duty-bound to completely annihilate whatever triggered the alert. (In this case, it was techno-zombies controlled by a rogue AI that used constant screaming as echolocation. Creepy.

 

So, I'm not sure this how slipped by me, but Inferno mentioned a Chaplaincy Edict or the Order of Observance. It comes from Malcador and after the Emperor returns to Terra. (I think we're going with Malcador still establishing it for the more 'troubled' Legions. Not sure how the 'good' legions come about it.)

 

The Omega Codex, a treatise of tactics specifically against space marines before the Heresy. (In BotL, it doesn't exist, until Icarion creates a secret version with large input from Raktra.)

 

Custodians predate every Imperial unit, soldier, space marine, and thunder warrior. Book suggests that the Custodians have a secret role to destroy space marines, if the need ever came up. 

 

Another tidbit from Inferno, 10k marines can be considered 'demi-Legion size'. 

 

Also, I'm amazed that there's a reference to Thomas Aquinas in Inferno, even the correct spelling of his name.

 

-

 

Okay, I think I collected all of the pertinent ones. What does Massacre say about Indomitus?

 

Interesting. Also, Massacre mentions Indomitus-pattern TDA

 

Uh, Indomitus is just the regular TDA that has been in 40k for decades. 

 

 

I thought Tartaros was the 'modern' pattern?

[Olis]

I thought Tartaros was the 'modern' pattern?

 

Tartaros are the baby-Contemptors while Indomitus are the old terminators we are all familiar with.

[simison]

 

I thought Tartaros was the 'modern' pattern?

 

Tartaros are the baby-Contemptors while Indomitus are the old terminators we are all familiar with.

 

 

 

Well, Lexicanum led me astray. So, Indomitus has been around since the Great Crusade. Hm, but Tartaros is supposed to be the most advanced. Strange.

[Olis]

I think I might have been easier to understand if I linked pictures in the first place. For the record: Tartaros and Indomitus.

[simison]

Yeah, when you mentioned that I had them mixed, I skipped Lexicanum and went straight to GW and FW websites. I'm a little annoyed, actually. I thought Cataphractii was first, Tartaros was the latest in the Heresy, and then Indomitus eventually replaced both. Now, it's weirder since Cataphractii to Indomitus, while Tartaros hovers awkwardly in the background.

[Demus Ragnok]

TDA pattern were supposedly developed concurrently by different forges. Though some came into use sooner.

 

Tartaros has a lot in common with mk4 pa.

 

The above is here say as I can't member sources.

[bluntblade]

It's more like the Indomius is the somewhat simplified version, while Cataphractii and Tartaros are varying kinds of specialist plate. Which is why no one suggests that the Phoenix Guard have de facto better armour than the Justaerin

[Nomus Sardauk]

If I recall correctly the Tartaros pattern was the most advanced of the three, like the Mk.IV was for standard power armour, utilising the most recent developments in Imperial tech to offer the same degree of protection as the previous designs but with greatly improved mobility. Due to it's sophisticated design, the advanced tech required and the short amount of time it was in production before the Heresy happened even fewer Tartaros pattern suits survived the war than others and the means to build more was lost, so the Mechanicum refocused their efforts on the cheaper and easier to produce Indomitus design.

[Kelborn]

Exactly what Sangi said.

 

Read that as well when I was looking for: "Can you sit in a Terminator armor?" ^^

 

Reader's Note of myself:

 

Thousand Sons organizational structure is : as hell. So many circles, brotherhoods, and the likes. Every fellowship consists of circles and so on. A very fluid structure (someone say Tzeentch? ).

Two additional brotherhoods which we never had any infos before: Ruin and Jackal.

 

This kind of complexity could be adapted for the Steel Legion. Instead of mysterious and arcane reasons, Nomus' could make use of the Hexagrammaton as a basement for his Legions' structure and add some (for him) reasonable and efficent layers, which gives the reader headaches.

 

Disciplinary corp of the pre Leman Wolves is a good way for my Preds. Both suffered from the lack of discipline and the Preds were even close of getting disbanded.

 

Tourists made me laught.

 

There might be more Thousand Sons out there on both sides, then I'd thought...

 

Custodes are really interesting. Haven't read their part as I'm still stucked in the middle of the Burning but the black Custodes picture got me right away. Would love to see some Custodes interactions in our 'verse as well, be it as a watchful eye (like with the Word Bearers) or a detachment for reasons unknown.

 

 

*edit*

 

How do you make planetfall on a hostile Astartes homeworld?

Step 1: Use your stormbirds and land them

Step 2: let their shields overlap each other and form them into a base of operations for your invansion

Step 3: ???

Step 4: profit

Edited April 7, 2017 by Kelborn

[simison]

Another snippet that I don't recognize. The fluff paragraph for the House of Malinax's Cerastus Knight-Lancer, they mention that among the oldest patterns of knights are Cerastus, Achaeus, and Acastus. Ceratus is universally recognized, while this is the book that introduces Acastus Knight Porphyrion.

 

Does anybody have any idea what an Achaeus-pattern Knight is? Something from the old Epic line?

[Kelborn]

Hm...most likely something which will be released in the future.

 

Maybe a melee oriented version? We did get an artillery Knight with the Porphyrion. So a "pure" cc would be missing.

[simison]

The Legion chapter has one really intriguing kernel. Okay, maybe not that interesting, but it's apparently expected that the Legions would never grow much more than to be a million-strong, given the intensity of the process and training. I'm curious why the number is estimated to be so low for the Legions since many of them were still growing well into the final days of the Great Crusade. 

[simison]

Okay, now this is something I've not heard of before. Apparently, the Thunder Warriors were to be disbanded. And, it is when they resisted retirement that they were culled by the Custodians and the Emperor. Furthermore, the 1st Legion was with them when they purged the Thunder Warriors in their earliest proto-Legion form.

 

EDIT: The only thing known about the creation of a Custodian is that the candidate has to be a pre-adolescent, as early as an infant. Furthermore, unlike the Astartes, Custodians are truly immortal, immune to Time's touch. 

 

EDIT 2: Also, if at any point during the creation process a flaw is found, the subject is discarded. I wonder what that implies.

 

Note 3: The earliest pattern of Dreadnought was called Ur-Gholem. Get it?

 

Note 4: The more advanced repulsor-speeder designs were kept hidden only for the Custodians to use, along with some advanced rifle weaponry. Makes me wonder just how advanced the Imperium really is and how much of the really good stuff was kept solely for the Emperor's use. 

 

Note 5: The Iron Cross is apparently one of the premier symbols for elite close-quarters combatants and is used by the Custodes. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by simison

[simison]

I've finished the Sisters of Silence chapter, which includes the infamous Pariah Gene red box. Turns out, there's a general ban on Pariah research in the Imperium, except for the Emperor's own efforts. The Sisters of Silence are thought to be one creation. Furthermore, there is not an actual known reason why no marines or Custodians are Pariahs. It is guessed that the gene-seed has a slice of the Emperor's psychic power, which would then kill a Pariah inductee. But that doesn't make sense to me. While the Primarchs are supposed to be Warp Creatures, the gene-seed has always been purely biological. So, I am doubtful of this reason. 

[Kelborn]

Maybe they saw our Pariahs and thought: Nah, let us not destroy their dreams. ;)

[Olis]

I've finished the Sisters of Silence chapter, which includes the infamous Pariah Gene red box. Turns out, there's a general ban on Pariah research in the Imperium, except for the Emperor's own efforts. The Sisters of Silence are thought to be one creation. Furthermore, there is not an actual known reason why no marines or Custodians are Pariahs. It is guessed that the gene-seed has a slice of the Emperor's psychic power, which would then kill a Pariah inductee. But that doesn't make sense to me. While the Primarchs are supposed to be Warp Creatures, the gene-seed has always been purely biological. So, I am doubtful of this reason. 

 

Let's be fair, there's a lot of things in 40k that don't make sense. ^_^

 

Besides, it's purely speculation. You guys have Gwalchavad - a null-primarch - set in an alternative universe. I'm fairly sure the amount of handwavium you need to explain his genetic legacy is not going to be terribly much. :wink:

[Chief Captain Redd]

It does actually make a little bit of sense; just insomuch as Humanity is thought to be a naturally Warp sensitive race, and all the cognitive modifications Astartes get could be enough to change the Architecture of the Brain to wake up any sort of latent abilities(but not creating full psykers), also iirc Librarians get quite a boost in power from becoming Astartes.

That being said, I think it can be said our Pariah Legions could get by the issue through an extra step in training or modifications.

[simison]

Fair points. Though I am satisfied that Pariah marines are not truly violating some Law of the Universe, at least on the surface.

 

Regarding the Psy-titans, apparently they were developed with no input whatsoever from the Mechanicum to combat dangerous threats that usually end up being relegated to Exterminatus. The three examples given are Enslaver-Alpha incursions, Rangdan Osseivores, and Hellespont Void-forms. 

 

I know what an Enslaver is. I've heard of Rangdan but not an Osseivore. I have never heard of a Hellespont.

 

Note 2: As can be imagined the Psi-titans are not unique to Humanity. The Eldar are an obvious example, but apparently the Fra'al are known to field them. The Vaxal'rek is another xenos species that used to field them. I say used to because they have been successfully exterminated. Maybe that can be a potential Exemplary Battle for one of the other Legions.

Edited April 10, 2017 by simison

[bluntblade]

Okay, now this is something I've not heard of before. Apparently, the Thunder Warriors were to be disbanded. And, it is when they resisted retirement that they were culled by the Custodians and the Emperor. Furthermore, the 1st Legion was with them when they purged the Thunder Warriors in their earliest proto-Legion form.

 

EDIT: The only thing known about the creation of a Custodian is that the candidate has to be a pre-adolescent, as early as an infant. Furthermore, unlike the Astartes, Custodians are truly immortal, immune to Time's touch. 

 

EDIT 2: Also, if at any point during the creation process a flaw is found, the subject is discarded. I wonder what that implies.

 

Note 3: The earliest pattern of Dreadnought was called Ur-Gholem. Get it?

 

Note 4: The more advanced repulsor-speeder designs were kept hidden only for the Custodians to use, along with some advanced rifle weaponry. Makes me wonder just how advanced the Imperium really is and how much of the really good stuff was kept solely for the Emperor's use. 

 

Note 5: The Iron Cross is apparently one of the premier symbols for elite close-quarters combatants and is used by the Custodes.

 

The War Hounds were also involved in the cull. Demus wanted the nascent X to play a part in our cull.

[simison]

Granted.

[simison]

The First Tempest is a warp storm that briefly surrounds the Sol System and forces a pause on the Great Crusade. It is during this time that the Thousand Sons are created, along with the Silent Sisterhood and the Black Sentinels. The warp storm ends almost or at the exact moment that the new legion swears their Oaths of Eternity, a thousand strong at that very moment.

 

These events will be the exact same in BotL, only that the Thousand Sons are the XI, not XV.

 

Note 2: Before the Egyptian theme, there was a distinct Persian theme, especially evoking the ancient Immortals of the Persian Empire. Furthermore, they are the only Legion where most of the applicants were hand-chosen by the Emperor. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by simison