Reader's Notes

[Kelborn]

So the Tau invented a slipstream engine, then equipped their 4th Expansion Fleet with it and celebrated the start of its journey.

Leading earth caste scientist warned for the consequences of activating all of them at once. The Ethereals were like: "Dude, calm down. The testphase was a success!" (note: only one ship was tested at the same time)

 

Guess what happened? They tore open a giant maw into the warp and while the entire Empire watched it, the 4th was devoured by the warp. The Ethereals did their best with propaganda, saying that the vids were a mistake and that they got the "correct" ones.

 

Still, years passed an no life sign of the 4th.

 

All of the sudden, a lone probe returned and led the Tau to a stable wormhole... (someone said Deep Space Nine?)

On the other side: the remaints of the 4th. 3/4 of the fleet got lost in the warp; the entirety of their auxiliaries went mad and "disappeared"; the remaining Tau were hardened and shocked, turning them into brutal Tau > all guys (some might say).

 

In the end, a "sentience" helped them in leaving the warp. It is not known what exactly this being was.

 

But still, the survivors founded new colonies and with the reinforcements in form of the 5th fleet under Shadowsun do the Tau expand again. This time, throught the wormhole (aka the Startide Nexus) into the so-called Nem'Yar Atoll, founding three entirely new Septs.

 

Why am I telling you this?

Nomus in charge of the Suzerainty leading to certain experiments, improvements, etc? Possible alternative to warpdrives? Who knows?

 

Tbh, I just wanted to share the fact that the Tau are unstopable. :P

[Slips]

So they presumed to create me and as such I was their downfall? I'm ok with that.

[Kelborn]

You were merely a setback. :P

After the discovery of the Atoll was the usage of the slipstream engines allowed again.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Sounds like this "Slipstream Drive" was some sort of prototype Warp Drive rather than an alternative FTL method, and without any Navigator-proxy to guide them... Well, as you said, 3/4ths lost to the Warp and the rest only got out because they had help from a "sentience" with likely less-than-benevolent intentions.

 

Make no mistake, Nomus would absolutely be researching alternate methods of FTL travel, but I doubt whether he'd find any as aside from the Webway I'm pretty sure it's a hard rule of 40k that there's no other FTL possible, and even the Webway still goes through the Warp partially. So I'm not sure I'd have him make any headway without express consensus from the rest of the Brotherhood given how concrete a fact of the setting it is.

[Slips]

If y'all have seen the movie Event Horizon, thats essentially what happened to the Tau during the 4th Sphere Expansion.

 

Its also why gellar fields are important :p

[bluntblade]

So at least the Tau had Jason Isaacs for a while.

[Kelborn]

Interesting note:

 

Traveling through the warp in stasis doesn't effect you at all. The 5th kept nearly everyone in stasis, leaving only a skeleton crew left to operate the ships.

It seems that even the auxiliaries of the 5th didn't went mad while traveling through the wormhole.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Event Horizon is basically about Humanity's first Warp Flight and the inevitable consequences thereof, really they should've canned the entire concept after that but noooooo...

[Kelborn]

Another thing that got my attention:

 

As Aun'va recently died during the events of Warzone: Damocles, the Empire makes use of an intelligent hologram to pretend like nothing happened.

 

During a war council, the leading T'au ship was hit by a bomb. All participating Ethereals died except Aun'Va (for reasons). Aun'Va then demanded that the leading commander pressed on in order to buy reinforcements time to arrive.

 

Guess what happened?

 

The commander denied him obedience (first time since Farsight) and left the fleet with her loyal followers, traveling straight to the Farsight Enclaves.

 

Pretty confirmation that the Ethereals enforce obedience by presence (through pheromones or whatever). Nothing new here but a nice little addition.

[simison]

I've finished writing Fulgrim. It has reminded me that Alexandros really should have earned quite a bit of fame for single-handedly conquering Balov, unarmed. Anyway, it was an enjoyable book. Definitely a much more violent and militaristic version of diplomacy. Fabius can actually come across as sympathetic. 

 

In the end, Fulgrim's patience is one of the two biggest differences in his approach to diplomacy compared to Alexandros. Fulgrim gets bored easily and nearly gets himself killed when he underestimates one planetary faction. At first, he's willing to put quite a bit of time and effort getting the lay of the land, but when the mortals move too slowly for his preference, he shakes things up.

 

Unlike Fulgrim (who is fairly desperate for glory at this stage and to prove the Third Legion can stand on their own), Alexandros doesn't care for the glory and is willing to play the long game for a more stable (and content) population. That's the key difference between them in personality and philosophy. He also lacks Darshan's psychic talents, which allows Darshan to speed up the process and to better predict which options to take. 

[simison]

So, the Ordo Reductor entry in Tempest is providing interesting tidbits. Apparently, it was they working with the Imperial Fists that lead to the creation of the Land Raider Achilles. 

 

For those who are interested in the Rangdan campaigns, the Ordo Reductor developed a 'powerful eradication cannon' explicitly for these wars, which was mounted on 'the Hellion-Minoris war machines of the Centurio Ordinatus'. 

 

I also find it interesting that the Ordo Reductor, in explicit contradiction to the Titan Legios and Mechanicum, was more likely to favor the Loyalists over the Traitors. 

[bluntblade]

Maybe they saw the Emperor more obviously as the manifestation of the aspect of the Omnissiah they venerated above all.

[simison]

Maybe they saw the Emperor more obviously as the manifestation of the aspect of the Omnissiah they venerated above all.

 

The text implies that it's because the Ordo Reductor exists only became of the Imperium. Or that they wanted to test themselves against Horus' armies for the ultimate test of skill.

 

Okay, I'm posting my exhaustive research on legion initial sizes and potential growth rates. This will come across scatterbrained due to Discord.

 

~~~~

•  

• It's an interesting question given that some Legions never split up. I can see two main methods: Void Eagles & Halcyon Wardens. In the Void Eagles method, you establish a pre-set number for a new fleet and when you have enough numbers, you skim them off current fleets. With the Halcyon Wardens, at least the first time, you take a fleet and divide it into two new fleets.

• So, skimming versus dividing.
•  
• Salamanders started out at 20,000 for their first Unification Wars battle
•  

• I just read the IH entry. No mention of numbers before War Disposition.

• And that's 113k after 200 years of the Great Crusade

•  

• Assuming a starting size of 5k marines, that's nearly 110k marines divided over 200, which is 550 marines a year. The logistics officer in me senses randomness

•  
• Helter: Doesn't account for casualties either
•  
• No, that's just overall growth in 200 years. It'd probably be more helpful to think that legion growth over a decade could look like a really wild zig-zag

•  
• Low count of 90,000 for the Night Lords. 450 marines a year.
•  

• Also, under the SoH chapter, they call the Luna Pacification as the first true battle of the GC

•  
• So, the Sol Conquest is technically a campaign under the Great Crusade.

•  
•  
• At the onset of the GC pushing beyond Sol, the War Hounds were temporarily divided into several fleets composing of several thousand marines each. The largest containing 8,000 marines.They were acting as a mobile reserve force that could quickly reach the heaviest fighting on the front lines, but they never handled a front by themselves.

•  
•  
• This implies that a legion needs to be at least more than 8,000 for independent service. World Eaters stand at 150,00 at the outset of the Heresy. That's 750 marines per year. How the heck does the WE have better overall growth than the IH and the NL? Hm, the EC entry implies that 200 legionaries is not 'far below effective strength'. Combine that with the NL entry praising a force of 500 as potent, FW has low standards for what constitutes an effective marine force.
•  
• If I had to hypothesize, 'far below effective strength' would be a number below 100 legionaries. 50 at the most extreme. Hm, yet, 3,000 legionaries is not considered enough for independent campaigning.
•  
• It's quite clear though that average growth seems to be situated in the hundreds as opposed to the thousands when it comes to new recruits.
•  
• Salamanders is perhaps the most clear example: 83k after 200 years with a starting base of 1k.
•  
• Grifft: Though that would be lower to begin with and trend up when the Primarch is found
•  
• 410 marines on average.
• Yeah.

• Then there's the added difficulty that some of these legions are far more than willing to bleeds themselves for their victories.
•  
• The WE have better growth than the Sallies despite Angron being discovered potentially a century later. So, I'm inclined to assign a range of growth with 100 legionaries being the low end and 1,000 legionaries being the high end.

•  
• According to the UM chapter, an Alpha intake is only 'several thousand warriors'. As the War-Born started campaigning in Seg. Solar, they numbered 8,000. 250k in total

• 242k over 200 years

• 830 marines a year
•  
• Grifft: Shouldn't that be 1200ish?
•  
• Yes.
•  

• And does nothing to explain the Sallies massive 20k. And somehow the WE were able to be well over 10k but were split into smaller groupings. My best guess is that the Selenar cults cause a temporary boost to all Legion sizes. While the Sallies were held in reserve explicitly for their upcoming mission.

• So, anywhere from 3,000-6,000, maybe 7,000
• Interestingly, 8,000 is still considered too small for independent deployment.
•  

• Oh no

• 800, 8k UM

• 833,33k UM

• 25k over 30 years. Without a Primarch. Does a Primarch not matter that much?

• In all of the lore I've read, finding a Primarch supercharges the recruitment rate...because...it stabilizes... oh

• Gene-seed. And the 13th is famed for having really stable gene-seed
•  

• I want to lay this all out.

• Have a percentage of gene-seed replicability for each BotL Legion

• Start everyone off at the Alpha mark and then try to get some realistic numbers for legion size.. I think we can safely assume a starting Alpha stage of 5,000-6,000 marines as a baseline.

• Adjust for additional factors and time.

• Like the Drowned starting off at 4,000.
•  

• No, being a Pariah means you have a gene-seed stability of like 10%, compared to an ideal of 100%

• The War-Born here being 90% with Guilliman pushing it up to 95%
•  

• But that Alpha stage baseline is just that, a baseline. The Drowned and the Grave Stalkers would start off less. Maybe a couple of Legions should start unusually higher

•  
• Grifft: Or assume that the Alpha stage is actually intended to be higher and none of the Legions has 100%? I feel lower is easier to justify. For example the Iron Bears would be lower not due to stability, but because their recruits wouldn't have matured sufficiently. They'd make it to Alpha, just few years behind the other Legions
•  
• Ehhhh, not sure. The text states that this Alpha phase is explicitly to test geneseed stability and adaptability. So, I guess it makes sense that the Alpha test is just how many of the warriors successfully bond to their geneseed. In which case, every legion starts with 5,000 test subjects (your 100% mark), and then go through the geneseed implantation process.That could explain how some legions deploy earlier than others. They all technically start testing at the same time (or close to it)
•  
• Even in the most stable of geneseeds, there's still a few failures. So, no one starts with 5,000.
•  
• Grifft: But the Halcyon Wardens have high 4000s, and although the Iron Bears would only have say 2000 viable by the time results are taken it would be noted that they seem to be maturing slowly rather than outright failures to bond.
•  
• Yeah.
   

[simison]

Hm, the Domitar unit banner states that the Mechanicum was growing in power in the 900s. This is also supposed to be the final Thanatar class before the Heresy, built on the "ancient Conquerer pattern". Guessing I'll run into that one in an earlier book.

 

Meanwhile, the Thanatar-Cynis only exists because of the Estaban III-Ryza rivalry. Where are these 2? Estaban is supposed to go Traitor.

 

Also, need to remember that the Thanatar-Calix is a late-GC invention, created by a Myrmidon group, Ordo Reductor covenant, and unknown members of the Legio Cybernetica. 

 

Meanwhile, I have discovered that the Mantles of Ultramar are not from Ultramar. Instead, they're Dark Age tech found on the edge of the Seryn Reach at the very edge of the eastern galactic fringe aboard a derelict ship. The territory is infested by Khrave, but this is something we can do in BotL. 

[simison]

I've finished reading Tempest. Now to start working on Conquest. Looking at the maps, it appears that nothing changes the situation of the Manachean Commonwealth since it, and the Gothic Sector, appear to fall outside of Three Fires. 

 

Really curious what will happen to this area come the Suzerainty since it's described as an industrial golden zone.

 

EDIT 1: Gladiator-class frigate & Havoc-class heavy destroyers (the latter use torpedoes)

Edited April 13, 2018 by simison

[simison]

Oh, balderdash, a new stormbird class is name-dropped in Conquest. Condor-class, described to be utterly massive compared to the more agile Warhawk-class and a relic from the earliest wars of the Great Crusade.

 

sigh

[bluntblade]

I thought I told you about that. I think it's old compared to the Sokhar and its ilk: we should retain those as the most modern designs.

[Chief Captain Redd]

I'd imagine the Condor class will be akin to the 1st edition artwork of Assault Marines pouring out of the massive turbine winged ship.

[Beren]

Stuff from Cybernetica

 

The Tabula Myriad:

An AI that could purge scrapcode and could predict if a population would fall to Chaos, and then typically purged them. Defeated by the Iron Hands at Atar-Median and imprisoned in the stasis vaults. Not strictly relevant to us since Mars does not fall in our verse, and thus the AI will not be released.

 

Events:

The Artisan Astartes (the Tech marine trainers) were summoned to Olympus Mons and eliminated by Kelbor Hal before full warfare broke out .

Scopulan Phase Fusilatrix cross the Mare Erytraueum(en route to attack Novus Mons)

Tenth Denticle strike fighters assemble over Sisyphi Montes.

The Mortis gatling-blaster equipped Warlord Tantus Abolitorus destroys the tower.

 

Martian Facilities:

 

There are stasis tombs (dungeon-diacomplex) at Prometheus Sinus for hereteks and their technologies. Hidden beneath a container yard. Overseen by lexorcist Raman Synk who becomes scrapcode corrupted.

 

Hellisponticae Titan Yards.

Techmarines in training are housed in 30 floor tower-preceptorys, 30 at a time(not all at the same stage of training)This particular one, Novus Mons, had a nooespheric network.

Phaethontis Smelting Plants

Depots Recyclatrix across Terra Cimeria

Memnonia Deep Core Mining Fields

Forge Temples Vertex Borealis(north) and Vertex Australis(south) are at either end of the Vertex, a spindle reaching through the core using Geomagnetic reactors for power and turning the core to generate a magnetospheric field to protect Mars from Solar radiation. It was irreplaceable and it's destruction would make Mars uninhabitable. Vertex Australis was the more vulnerable facility. This is also responsible for the lava shenanigans.

The Invalis Region, abandoned due to the presence of materials that interfere with powered systems.

On Phobos- Void Forges of Skyre City and Craters Reldessa severely damaged. Kepler Dorsum drydocks annihilated entirely.

Ausonian assembly yards, defended by landraiders.

Thymus Heights- A ridge with Nereistki towers present

Hesperia sub-hives

Lake Tetanus-seasonal body of meltwater

 

 

The Scopulan Phase-Fusillatrix:

(Presumably) elite skitarii unit loyal to the traitors.

Assigned with eliminating tech marines at Novus Mons

Conveyed via Autokraktor Assault Craft(multilaser equipped Valkyries)

Crimson cloaks and bronze ceremonial mail

Equipped exclusively with phased plasma-fusils

An officer held a volkite pistol.

 

Cyber-hybrid carnivora: Vat grown and heavily augmented canines.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Beren

[simison]

Abaddon

 

Comparison Base: Praetor (100 points)

 

Attributes

 

• +1 (WS): 5 points
  

 

Total: 5 points

 

Wargear

 

• Terminator armour with Relentless: 55 points
  
• Master-Crafted Power Fist: 15 points
  
• Grenade Harness: 10 points
  

 

Total: 80 points

 

Special Rules

• Fearless: 15 points
  
• Teleporter Assault: 25 points
  

 

Total: 40 points

 

Total cost: 125 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 225 points

 

Notes: 

 

• I fully admit, I'm a little confused as to what abilities the different terminator armours have at this point. Still, I'm only 10 points off from what he is priced at....at least in his original debut.
  

[bluntblade]

I thought Abaddon had a unique suit?

[Grifftofer]

Abaddon's Armour is a unique suit. It gives him a 2+, 4++ and Relentless (and presumably is the reason he has Bulky too). Technically he isn't restricted from making Sweeping Advances either so that would make it more similar to Tartaros.

 

For that reason I think that the points for his armour would be based on one of the following:

 

Terminator Route (Total 45 points)

• Tartaros Terminator Armour: 35 points
• Iron Halo: 10 points (Praetors get a discount on it when in Terminator Armour)

Artificer Armour Route (Total 45 points)

• Iron Halo: 25 points
• Relentless: 20 points

Either way he comes in at 215 points, the same as FW has him at.

[simison]

[sounds good enough for me.]

 

Garivel Loken

 

Comparison Base: Praetor (100 points)

 

Attributes

 

• +1 Initiative: 10 points

 

Total: 10 points

 

Wargear

 

• Paragon Blade: 25 points
• Iron Halo: 25 points
• No Artificer Armour: (-10) points

 

Total: 40 points

 

Special Rules

• Born Survivor: 10 points

 

Total: 10 points

 

Total cost: 60 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 160 points

 

Notes: 

 

• If anything, I think FW has made him too expensive.

[Grifftofer]

Personally I'd rate the Born Survivor at about 15 points. To m it's worth more than an extra wound because it bypasses Instant Death. A model with an extra wound would just lose it to an ID hit, one with Born Survivor drops, but then gets back up with 1 wound left 83% of the time. That still doesn't make him up to the cost FW has given him, but it's a bit closer :P

[simison]

Back to the FW books, I have no Compliance/Exterminatus target: the Mitu Conglomerate. "...a cabal of several psychically empowered psuedo-actinaric xenos." They are the alien oppressors of the Manachean Commonwealth. The Mitu would require the force of three Space Marine Legions and hundreds of Solar Auxilia cohorts to exterminate. 

 

This might be of special interest to Suzerain Legions. Did we ever pick a location for Saepio/Nomus' homeworld?

 

EDIT: A new Rogue Trader name we can use: Vaspperly Elgin, who found the planet Lethe in 824.M30.

 

EDIT2: Apparently extra-galactic invasions are not as rare as I thought. An extra-galactic cryptid species invaded the mining planet Legatus 940.M30. All that's known about them was that they were heavily mutated. 

 

EDIT3: Numinal is an Ocean world with a couple of indigenous species in need of extermination. Scions or Drowned, anyone?

 

EDIT4: One famous Imperial Army regiment, equal to the Lucifer Blacks, are the gene-wrought Marnean Armsmen. 

Edited April 30, 2018 by simison