Reader's Notes

[Nomus Sardauk]

There are some excellent lines in this novel.

 

"Lift, damn you, lift."

 

"A little respect might help," said the Magos. "The Machine knows all. The Machine hears all."

 

"Fine. Lift, damn you, lift. Please."

 

 

*snorts in amusement* The Snark Side is strong with this one. :lol:

[Kelborn]

One notices that McNeil loves both, Magnus and Perturabo.

 

IMHO, I found Perturabo even more interesting than Magnus and I'm saying this as a Thousand Sons fan. But Perturabo and further the entire Iron Warriors were treated so well recently, that they have become my favourite Traitor Legion along the Sons.

 

Forrix is THE major IW character, he survives the Heresy up to Storm of Iron by McNeil. You will see his importance in Perturabo and even the (by others) cursed Angelus Exterminatus depicts him well.

 

The ending was OK I think. Not the best I've read but it fits Magnus' character. Although I'm not sure what to think of it being part of the Rubric.

 

Only thing that bothered me (as far as I remember): Forrix and Ahriman become friends, then all of th sudden, one wants to kill the other. That was very abrupt and for me not reasonable.

 

In the end, Magnus was good. Not great and definitely not the best, but not the worst as well.

[simison]

I've covered a couple of thoughts in regards to Leman Russ, but not a comprehensive post.

 

I like it. Ironically, I think it has the most upbeat ending out of the three Primarch novels I've read so far. It's interesting how early the Wulfen were appearing, and that the Lion and the Dark Angels are actually well aware of them. 

 

The highlight to me was seeing the Lion in action and how he struggles between being an honorable knight and a pragmatic warlord. Which does lead to the infamous duel. 

 

The one thing I despise about the novel is in Part V, where they suggest that maybe Leman may have misremembered the entire thing.

 

Really, BL? Is it really necessary to pull this card out, in the second to last part of the novel? Neither Guilliman or Magnus even hinted at this stunt.

[simison]

Some thoughts about Lorgar thus far.

 

It seems all the Primarch novels are essentially huge flashbacks with the beginning and the ending devoted to the storyteller in a more modern context with Guilliman being the sole exception. Sometimes, you don't really want to be first. Not so modern here, though, since the flashback originates with Kor Phaeron mid-Great Crusade. This is the only beginning that I feel really offers something new to the universe as opposed to Magnus and Russ. It shows how Kor Phaeron has been subtly planting seeds of Chaos throughout the Great Crusade. It makes me wonder just how much damage did Kor do given a century's worth of work in laying the foundation for Chaos. 

 

Also, I hate him. Alone among the Primarch novels thus far, this one actually takes a look at Lorgar as a child, newly found. He was actually rescued by a desert tribe who were then found by Kor Phaeron, a wandering outcast preacher, who took him and slaughtered the tribe. How different things might have been if Kor had never found Lorgar. So far, Kor is pretty much a cruel master to child-Lorgar. I'm really curious how they show Lorgar not killing the man down the road for his cruelty. 

 

Finally, this book is a treasure for those who want to experiment with planets that have unusual day-night cycles and longer years. It takes 5 Terran years to equal 1 Colchis year. A single Colchisian day is equal to a Terran week. It's fascinating to see how the people have adapted as best as they can and the terms they have come up with.

[Kelborn]

Still reading it and it may be able to kick Perturabo off of my throne of favorite Primarch novels. Colchis reminds me a lot of 90s apocalyptic movies like Waterworld or Mad Max.

 

Love the world building in it. Gav did a great job thus far!

[simison]

I've finished Lorgar. As can be guessed, there are no happy endings here. But there is plenty of fodder for 'What If?' scenarios. There at least a dozen moments where things could have turned out for the better. 

 

There's a scene one-third of the novel where Kor runs into the hold for his militia. I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but the converts, being actual believers in addition to warriors, were reading, studying, and meditating. I was struck by the fact that it works as a preview of what the Legiones Astartes would eventually become. 

 

I'm curious as to how much of Kor's personality is his own. It's established throughout the novel that he's while he can be self-disciplined, when he's not actively monitoring himself his moods can swing wildly. There are a couple of times that it seems that he has bipolar. My curiosity is how much of this is his natural personality, how much is related to his hardships, and how much is this related to being a priest of Chaos. Is his mood swings a subtle sign that Chaos is influencing him? How much taint can Chaos worship cause when it is a couple of degrees removed from the actual names and rituals? 

 

He's also one of the luckiest beings alive. Although he can be cunning, he really only survives through his manipulation of Lorgar and Lorgar's protection. For all of his arrogance, he's a leader of limited skill and ability. This is true even after he joins the Legion.

 

Lorgar is no warlord. Yes, he's able to conquer/liberate his planet before the Emperor's arrival, but there's far more detail to his journey to his first major battle than the actual conquering. No, Lorgar's primary weapon is his sincere beliefs. In every battle against a faction, Lorgar is able to cripple the enemy through his preaching, through sharing his ideals to others. This enables him to conquer some places without any physical battle. It's sort of a brute force method when comparing it to Alexandros' favoured method of political manipulation. I'm honestly not sure if Lorgar actually uses any tactics other than 'attack'. 

 

I feel like I have more thoughts, but bed calls for now.

[simison]

My final thoughts. It is necessary to touch upon the themes of faith, religion, etc throughout the book. After all, that is who Lorgar is and the kind of environment Colchis displays. 

 

I know I didn't like it. But I wasn't sure why I didn't like it. The book does touch upon two key struggles that is often tied to faith. When it comes to the side of religion, it successfully highlights the struggles of organization and doctrine. The on-going struggles with the doctrine of slavery is the most visible aspect of this conflict throughout the novel. The other half is the struggle with the spiritual. In this book, it can be seen as trying to interpret the divine or recognizing the lack of divine influence. Since this has already been revealed in earlier works, I have no trouble saying that Lorgar has visions. Obviously of the Emperor, but there's still a struggle in understanding exactly what the visions mean and what impact they have. 

 

So, that's fairly done. 

 

Yet, in the end, I think what bothers me is the lack of the 'why'. One of religion's primary purposes is to give answers to the big 'why' questions. Why do we exist? Why does everything exist? Why is there evil? And so on. The only 'why' question I can recall is why are some people slaves? So, despite all of the details about prayers and mythology, there's a lack of depth or an avoidance of the deeper stuff where religion typically shines. 

 

That and the standard struggles of seeing a religion of evil do evil. 

 

Finally, just as Magnus and Perturabo are shown with seeds of something darker within them, Lorgar is portrayed as having traits that could lead him down a darker path, despite all of his idealism. 

 

For a bonus, the book has an excerpt of Fulgrim. I enjoyed it, looks like we're going to see the Emperor Children's first Compliance after becoming independent of the Luna Wolves. I hate how they depict Fulgrim on the cover. 

[simison]

Getting back to the rulebooks, we now have another piece of the puzzle of the early Great Crusade. Tentrion is described as one of the earliest campaigns outside the Sol System and noted to being in the direction of the galactic core. It was a highly developed, urban civilization that had weathered the Age of Strife and refused to join the Imperium. They are ruled by the Pontifex and feature multi-legged gun platforms.

 

No Legions are explicitly mentioned as being a part of this campaign to subdue Tentrion (which is accomplished by Legio Praesagius), but I find it extremely likely that at least one, if not several Legions fought there. 

[bluntblade]

Wasn't the point that Praesagius took the field alone to minimise casualties?

[Nomus Sardauk]

Speaking of early Crusade conflicts, have we discussed anything about Sedna? It's a very obscure bit of lore from what I'm aware but for those unfamiliar Sedna was an artificial xeno-made planetoid located in Sol's inner Oort Cloud, it was the last obstacle to uniting all of Sol under human rule and a full 8 Space Marines Legions were required to conquer it and exterminate the unnamed xeno race that inhabited Sedna.

[Grifftofer]

We've not discussed Sedna, but I believe in the first chapter of Insurrection it gets a passing mention. I think it gets vaporized, but don't quote me on it.

[simison]

The Lightning Bearers take it out. That's one of the few Athrawes was adamant about.

[bluntblade]

Aye aye

[simison]

I have finished reading Perturabo. I am reminded of an episode from Star Trek: The Original Series. After being stranded on an alien planet, Spock, a couple of redshirts, and some random crew members realize there is a hostile alien race with them. While someone is repairing the shuttle, Spock takes command to repel the alien invaders. However, he does not allow force to be applied directly to the hostiles. Instead, he deems it 'logical' that a show of force will be enough to scare away the hostiles.

 

Put simply, his plan fails, even with one of the red shirts warning him that it will. Before he dies, of course. For all of his vaunted logic, Spock is unable to recognize and properly respond to reality.

 

In the same way, Perturabo's tragedy is primarily his own doing because he refuses to recognize anything beyond logic and reason. It leads to both the most annoying scene (where he debates a priest over mythology), and his utter disconnect with his adopted family. It is also his unwillingness to engage with his own emotions that leads to his villainy. The book does an excellent job of explaining how his rage comes to control him; he enjoyed the emotional release and the fear it cause, steamrolling from there. This successfully connects the Perturabo of Magnus to The Crimson Fist.

 

Also, it's a pretty excellent explanation for why Perturabo loves 'iron' as a title.

 

What has surprised me in these last two novels is how there are mini-purges that further seal the fate of the Word Bearers and the Iron Warriors. We all know about the harsh purge of Olympia. So, I'm not sure if it's that much of a spoiler to reveal that not all of the Iron Warriors obeyed Perturabo's harsh orders (it only affects a 'C' plotline and I'm not saying how). These noble Iron Warriors would likewise be slaughtered, causing the Iron Warriors to slide toward evil. 

 

Overall, I enjoyed it for how it treats the Primarch (and gives me ideas on how Alexandros and Perturabo could interact). On a side matter, there is no evidence given for the theory that the Hrud are time-traveling, corrupted humans. It's simply stated by a tech-priest without any kind of support or follow-up. Mildly annoying.

 

(On a side, side note, why doesn't BL capitalize the name of races or 'legions' like FW does?)

[simison]

Back to Tempest, more nuggets.

 

• The 12th Expeditionary Fleet had a Rogue Trader fleet commanded by Kohnwallis (Cornwallis) acting as Pathfinders. They're the ones who found the Knight House of Vornherr.
• The current Duke at the time of contact was Khorvun (Corwin?) Bhaevenwulf (Beowulf). 
• Another Great Crusade battle: First Scouring of Jardingris. 12 chapters of Ultramarines, Legio Metallica, ten cohorts of Solar Auxilia, House Vornherr, the "Conquestor companies of Rogue Trader Kohnwallis", and militia v. anti-human, necrogenic revenant xenos. Xenos purged at the cost of a dozen titans, a hundred knights, tens of thousands of human soldiers, and three thousand Ultramarines (one-quarter of the entire Marine detachment). All occurring on one planet. 

 

EDIT 2: It looks like this is one Knight House that Forgeworld intends to kill off during the Heresy. That's something to keep in mind in our conflict is that entire factions will die.

 

EDIT 3: Another GC battle idea - "...such as the lengthy persecution of the void-born Gethora Warp-Witches by the Night Lords Legion across the Vaomir Reaches in the 970s..."

 

Also a bunch of names. Primitive Feral Words: Oran & Forman C2. Hive worlds with hyper-violent/active gangs: Gamma-Horgan, Kado, and Averllorn.

 

EDIT 4: Given the length of the Insurrection, we should come up with some of our own Warp cults in the last stages of the war.

 

EDIT 5: Found some gems about the early history of Mars. The 'Era of Pathogenesis' is when the first Titan Legios were created, especially the Triad. The enemies of Mars at the time include "...the cabalistic Cy-Carnivora Mekwrights and their own gargantuan hunger-engines...", and apparently rivaled the early Omnissiah Cult.

Edited February 9, 2018 by simison

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I'm listening to Master of Mankind and there was a passage where Kane was listing all of the assets that he had. In this list, he mentions the "Myrmida cultist in nearby systems". I thought it was the Auxilia Myrmidon for a second but not sure.

[Talonair]

Entirely possible, the Myrmidons are arranged into their own cults

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Entirely possible, the Myrmidons are arranged into their own cults

This is true. It's just very odd to hear it like that.

[simison]

So, I've reached the campaign section of Tempest, and I was surprised to see the introduction of it encourage players to mine the Black Library books for ideas. Players are encouraged to draw up their own scenarios, military elements/units, and so on, utilizing the rules in this campaign as a foundation. That's something I'm going to have to keep in mind as we create our own campaign sections. 

 

EDIT 2: I've been given ideas on how to customize campaigns. The Calth campaign features two additional rules to represent spiritual warfare and Lorgar's great ritual to create the Ruinstorm. 

 

This is something to keep in mind for our own campaigns, I'm already of thinking of a potential 'information warfare' that could involve the Steel Legion and others.

Edited February 11, 2018 by simison

[simison]

So, I'm reading through the Calth campaign rules. Thus far, the sense I'm getting is that CPs is the name of the game. And one can divide mission types by how much CPs give to either side. On Calth, ZM games can give 3 CPs for the victor, the other side gets 1 CP. Yet, in cityfight missions, it's 2 CPs for the victor and none for the loser

 

In regards to Madrigal, we could probably do ZM missions to represent the more closed sections of the ship. Meanwhile, we can use more open areas (such as landing bays) and place them under general Age of Darkness missions. Each type will give different amounts of CPs to best represent the situation.

 

Also, we'll probably always need this line: "All other games: The victor gains 1 CP."

 

Additionally, each campaign is divided into Phases, and each phase has its own special effects. In Phase 1 of Calth, the Traitors always get the first turn. Unless the Loyalists have a Librarian, which allows a roll to Seize, but no more than that.

 

EDIT 2: I'm surprised that bragging rights are incorporated into the campaign victory/defeat section. This also includes the best performing Traitor general, regardless of campaign victory or defeat.

 

On a minor note, this page suggests that FW wants to cover the Underworld War at some point in the future. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by simison

[simison]

Although we will likely be delving into the Elite Mortal Regiments next, the Old One Hundred can definitely serve as a starting point for the Standard Mortal Regiments...or does it?

[bluntblade]

It always seemed to me that the Old Hundred counted as the high end of the Excertus.

[simison]

Whatever they were, the Khrave had an effective immunity against the standard arms of the Imperialis Militia.

 

EDIT 2: So, the 'Augmented Weapon' entry has a couple of one-off references to various Militia/Imperial Army units. The Malgantine techno-clans have the thermo-bladed axes, while the Ketchall Janissaries possess fractal-fracturing crystalline bayonets. Exotic.

Edited March 2, 2018 by simison

[simison]

Fulgrim has proved an interesting read so far. The morsels about the II Legion Primarch were intriguing (and potentially fit Icarion), while one page's emphasis on the humanity of the Primarchs sounds awfully...coincidental given Second Son.

 

Of more practical concern, we get a chance to see the Third Legion transitioning from a cadre of military overseers in serving the Imperial Army to becoming a full-fledged Legion. One of the characters is an aging Iterator who is excited to start some diplomacy, potentially with murder for a grimdark flavor.

 

One of the minor characters reminded me that the War Council is a body that receives very little time in the spotlight. That's something that should be addressed, especially in the early period where the Primarchs haven't taken leading roles among the Great Crusade. 

[simison]

Fulgrim continues to be a delight even in short bursts. Fulgrim is chatting with the Imperial governor and then expresses polite disappointment when he realizes the wine he is drinking is poisoned. It's also proving to be a good case of a more dangerous and darker version of diplomacy.