DA 8th Edition Info

[Interrogator Stobz]

Somewhere in the News and Rumours lot, I have already forgotten

 

Edit: The Primaris discussion thread

Edited May 28, 2017 by Interrogator Stobz

[jbaeza94]

cool thanks, found it now.

[Bryan Blaire]

I get them having the red thirst, curse of the wulfen, etc... but how exactly do they get DA chapter tactics that come from millennia of carefully cultured behavior, belief, and highly specialized training.

 

Furthermore, they would not be considered part of the legion, so would be monitored, but never included.

Hypno-indoctrination, as I have said before. They can be programmed with all the standard battle knowledge, hatred for Chaos, Chapter cult, beliefs, trigger words, and the like. It's how all Marines are made, and unless there is some fluff revealed somewhere on these that they are immune to the hypno-indoctrination, then I would expect them to process through that in their creation in exactly the same way. The Dark Angels would likely redo it after a mind wipe if they suspected that something had been done improperly.

 

As far as not being considered part of the Legion... how does anyone think all Chapters end up part of the Legion when the Foundings are performed by the High Lords, not the Unforgiven themselves. They'll be monitored, sure, examined, tested, and members brought into the Inner Circle as any newly formed Chapter would.

 

People are seriously striving way beyond the bounds of good judgment in an attempt to distance themselves from this happening.

 

If people don't like the fluff for them, just use new stuff (and cool, I don't either - I think that with just a little bit extra, this could have been done in a much better way). There's some extra gene-seed stuff that the Emperor had on ice, the Mechanicum finally found it and has been distributing it out to the Chapters in the last five years or the first Chapter with this new material was finally Founded, and the first Marines have arrived for duty. Or something else. Or simply ignore them. But the models and rules are here, they've already been revealed.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Bryan Blaire

[Master Sheol]

For those who like the Centurions

There is a photo from WHF with centurions in BA colours

DA could probably get centurions too

[Brother Ramael]

There you go:

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by Brother Ramael

[Brother Ramael]

I'd be lying if I said they're not growing on me....

Painting them should be easier too, more space for details and so on.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Brother Ramael

[Chaplain Raeven]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/ib.gif

 

I wasn't planning on buying the new kits soon, but man, that stuff is beautifull! This is how I imagine the marines in the BL novels would look like.

Edited May 28, 2017 by GreyRavenC

[twopounder]

 

I get them having the red thirst, curse of the wulfen, etc... but how exactly do they get DA chapter tactics that come from millennia of carefully cultured behavior, belief, and highly specialized training.

 

Furthermore, they would not be considered part of the legion, so would be monitored, but never included.

Hypno-indoctrination, as I have said before. They can be programmed with all the standard battle knowledge, hatred for Chaos, Chapter cult, beliefs, trigger words, and the like. It's how all Marines are made, and unless there is some fluff revealed somewhere on these that they are immune to the hypno-indoctrination, then I would expect them to process through that in their creation in exactly the same way. The Dark Angels would likely redo it after a mind wipe if they suspected that something had been done improperly.

 

As far as not being considered part of the Legion... how does anyone think all Chapters end up part of the Legion when the Foundings are performed by the High Lords, not the Unforgiven themselves. They'll be monitored, sure, examined, tested, and members brought into the Inner Circle as any newly formed Chapter would.

 

People are seriously striving way beyond the bounds of good judgment in an attempt to distance themselves from this happening.

 

If people don't like the fluff for them, just use new stuff (and cool, I don't either - I think that with just a little bit extra, this could have been done in a much better way). There's some extra gene-seed stuff that the Emperor had on ice, the Mechanicum finally found it and has been distributing it out to the Chapters in the last five years or the first Chapter with this new material was finally Founded, and the first Marines have arrived for duty. Or something else. Or simply ignore them. But the models and rules are here, they've already been revealed.

 

 

Guilliman is not going to be able to indoctrinate them the same way. They don't have librarians with interromancy skills to vet them. The conditioning process for Dark Angels begins the day they arrive at a village to take children with them. Who they select, which villages and planets they are recruiting from, the trials they undergo, are all very specific.

 

I bet a lot of primaris would be executed under the command of librarians. At the very least, they would be marked and never allowed to advance.

 

There you go:

 

SNIP

 

 

Clearly the Inner Circle considers them bullet shields :D

[Brother Ramael]

 

 

I get them having the red thirst, curse of the wulfen, etc... but how exactly do they get DA chapter tactics that come from millennia of carefully cultured behavior, belief, and highly specialized training.

 

Furthermore, they would not be considered part of the legion, so would be monitored, but never included.

Hypno-indoctrination, as I have said before. They can be programmed with all the standard battle knowledge, hatred for Chaos, Chapter cult, beliefs, trigger words, and the like. It's how all Marines are made, and unless there is some fluff revealed somewhere on these that they are immune to the hypno-indoctrination, then I would expect them to process through that in their creation in exactly the same way. The Dark Angels would likely redo it after a mind wipe if they suspected that something had been done improperly.

 

As far as not being considered part of the Legion... how does anyone think all Chapters end up part of the Legion when the Foundings are performed by the High Lords, not the Unforgiven themselves. They'll be monitored, sure, examined, tested, and members brought into the Inner Circle as any newly formed Chapter would.

 

People are seriously striving way beyond the bounds of good judgment in an attempt to distance themselves from this happening.

 

If people don't like the fluff for them, just use new stuff (and cool, I don't either - I think that with just a little bit extra, this could have been done in a much better way). There's some extra gene-seed stuff that the Emperor had on ice, the Mechanicum finally found it and has been distributing it out to the Chapters in the last five years or the first Chapter with this new material was finally Founded, and the first Marines have arrived for duty. Or something else. Or simply ignore them. But the models and rules are here, they've already been revealed.

 

 

Guilliman is not going to be able to indoctrinate them the same way. They don't have librarians with interromancy skills to vet them. The conditioning process for Dark Angels begins the day they arrive at a village to take children with them. Who they select, which villages and planets they are recruiting from, the trials they undergo, are all very specific.

 

I bet a lot of primaris would be executed under the command of librarians. At the very least, they would be marked and never allowed to advance.

 

There you go:

 

SNIP

 

 

Clearly the Inner Circle considers them bullet shields

 

Well, then again, since chapters can grow theirs on their own and normal marines can become Primaris, thre is no need for fearing infiltration from Rowboat Girlyman

[Bryan Blaire]

Guilliman is not going to be able to indoctrinate them the same way. They don't have librarians with interromancy skills to vet them. The conditioning process for Dark Angels begins the day they arrive at a village to take children with them. Who they select, which villages and planets they are recruiting from, the trials they undergo, are all very specific.

 

I bet a lot of primaris would be executed under the command of librarians. At the very least, they would be marked and never allowed to advance.

You make me laugh. That was really funny.

 

The Dark Angels do not recruit for their own Foundings, the Marines are built up by Mars/Terra under the directions of the High Lords. Unless you ascribe to the idea that no Founding after the Second was even a member of the Unforgiven, something destroyed by the story of the Disciples of Caliban, then you have to accept that Chapters are allowed to join the Unforgiven.

 

These initial Ultima Founding Primaris are a completely separate Chapter, they are not Dark Angels, therefore they would be evaluated just like any other Chapter built from Dark Angels gene-seed. If need be, they could be mind-wiped and re-indoctrinated if found wanting.

[twopounder]

 

Guilliman is not going to be able to indoctrinate them the same way. They don't have librarians with interromancy skills to vet them. The conditioning process for Dark Angels begins the day they arrive at a village to take children with them. Who they select, which villages and planets they are recruiting from, the trials they undergo, are all very specific.

 

I bet a lot of primaris would be executed under the command of librarians. At the very least, they would be marked and never allowed to advance.

You make me laugh. That was really funny.

 

The Dark Angels do not recruit for their own Foundings, the Marines are built up by Mars/Terra under the directions of the High Lords. Unless you ascribe to the idea that no Founding after the Second was even a member of the Unforgiven, something destroyed by the story of the Disciples of Caliban, then you have to accept that Chapters are allowed to join the Unforgiven.

 

These initial Ultima Founding Primaris are a completely separate Chapter, they are not Dark Angels, therefore they would be evaluated just like any other Chapter built from Dark Angels gene-seed. If need be, they could be mind-wiped and re-indoctrinated if found wanting.

 

 

Seems you're missing a bit of information...

 

1) DA had to split into 2nd+ foundings just like ever other legion at the end of the Heresy. However, unlike other legions, DA geneseed has never been made to create additional foundings. All existing chapters are derived from the original legion.

 

2) DA still operate as a legion. While the practices may not be exactly the same, they know not to question actions or decisions of the inner circle. They are also aware of the fallen on various levels and are expected to behave appropriately with this information.

 

3) From the images posted literally in this very page, primaris marines will be in the Dark Angel chapter. It is not a matter of them only getting their own chapter to drive around in.

Edited May 28, 2017 by twopounder

[Bryan Blaire]

Where the heck are you getting "has never"? That is made a total lie by the Disciples of Caliban, which we KNOW from the Dark Angels Codex happened after the 2nd Founding, in the late 37th millennium to be exact. The previous texts have stated that it is rare for the DA geneseed to be used, but I've never seen official text from Games Workshop that absolutely no Chapters have been created after the 2nd Founding.

 

I'm not missing any information, but you seem to be making things up, twopounder. My information comes directly from GW official products. If you have text to disprove the 7th Edition DA Codex, pg. 23, please post it. This information was also found in the 4th Edition Codex.

 

And I have no doubts at all that the Dark Angels will be producing Primaris Marines, but the DA Successor posted previously here, seemingly the Blades of Vengeance, are an Ultima Founding all Primaris Marine DA Successor.

 

Sorry man.

 

Edit: For additional information to put to rest this idea that the DA have never been involved in a later Founding than the 2nd:

 

- The Angels of Death Codex only mentions the original three Successors.

 

- The 3rd Edition (not 3.5) is vague and somewhat mentions other Successors, but doesn't give clear information on them, only that all DA Successors call themselves the Unforgiven.

 

- I can't speak for the 3.5 Edition 'Dex, I no longer have that.

 

- The 4th Edition Codex states that the Disciples of Caliban was in a founding late in the 37th Millennium. -pg 74. Since we know that the 2nd Founding did not take place in the 37th Millennium, we know that there was at least one recorded DA Successor Chapter that was created outside that Founding, and they are included in the Successors that call themselves the Unforgiven.

 

- 6th Edition Codex, pg. 16: "Although frequently passed over in subsequent Space Marine foundings, the Dark Angels have periodically been requested to give gene-seed to found new Chapters." So, we have a clear statement that more than just one additional new Chapter as a Successor to the Dark Angels has been created. The same page states "The Dark Angels Successor Chapters collectively call themselves the Unforgiven, for their own Inner Circles are aware of the ancient Legion's history, and they too seek to absolve themselves of the ancient failure." So we can see from the title of the page "Dark Angel Successor Chapters" and these two blurbs, there are Unforgiven Chapters beyond just the original 2nd Founding ones, created after that and included in the Unforgiven with their own Inner Circles.

 

That same Codex also states the same fact about the Disciple of Caliban being created in the 37th Millennium.

 

- 7th Edition Codex: Page 22, "several other Chapters are believed to have descended from the Sons of the Lion in the millennia since." is the only other specific statement beyond the naming of the six official already known Successors. Page 23 references the Disciples of Caliban again as above.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Bryan Blaire

[jbaeza94]

Angels of Wrath are a 10th founding Successor, with many official ones being unknown. In fact the Apocrypha of Davio only lists 4 second founding successors , Angels of Absolution, Angels of Redemption, Angels of Vengeance, and the Angels of Vigilance (rumored to be DA), not counting the Lions Sable who were destroyed by the Dark Angels before the Apocrypha was made. Its safe to assume most DA successors are post second founding. 

 

 

On topic:

the DA will be able to create Primaris in house, just like they do Marines. Guilliman will have zero influence on them. This makes it incredibly easy to allow them into the inner circle, because they are indoctrinated just like every other dark angel from the moment they are chosen. I'm sure GW wants the Blades of Vengeance as part of the hunt. my guess theyll have them join by sending DA officers upgraded to primaris to start the selection process and slowly create an inner circle. for the time being, they dont need to know even most of the truth, just enough to be of aid.

Edited May 28, 2017 by jbaeza94

[ValourousHeart]

I like the new primaris marines except for the one glaring flaw that they have.

 

They are missing their motorcycles.

 

I hoping that the Primis Marines will become the new standard marine sculpt moving forward.

If I'm right, then GW will fix that flaw in the next year or so.

[twopounder]

Where the heck are you getting "has never"? That is made a total lie by the Disciples of Caliban, which we KNOW from the Dark Angels Codex happened after the 2nd Founding, in the late 37th millennium to be exact. The previous texts have stated that it is rare for the DA geneseed to be used, but I've never seen official text from Games Workshop that absolutely no Chapters have been created after the 2nd Founding.

 

I'm not missing any information, but you seem to be making things up, twopounder. My information comes directly from GW official products. If you have text to disprove the 7th Edition DA Codex, pg. 23, please post it. This information was also found in the 4th Edition Codex.

 

And I have no doubts at all that the Dark Angels will be producing Primaris Marines, but the DA Successor posted previously here, seemingly the Blades of Vengeance, are an Ultima Founding all Primaris Marine DA Successor.

 

Sorry man.

 

Edit: For additional information to put to rest this idea that the DA have never been involved in a later Founding than the 2nd:

 

- The Angels of Death Codex only mentions the original three Successors.

 

- The 3rd Edition (not 3.5) is vague and somewhat mentions other Successors, but doesn't give clear information on them, only that all DA Successors call themselves the Unforgiven.

 

- I can't speak for the 3.5 Edition 'Dex, I no longer have that.

 

- The 4th Edition Codex states that the Disciples of Caliban was in a founding late in the 37th Millennium. -pg 74. Since we know that the 2nd Founding did not take place in the 37th Millennium, we know that there was at least one recorded DA Successor Chapter that was created outside that Founding, and they are included in the Successors that call themselves the Unforgiven.

 

- 6th Edition Codex, pg. 16: "Although frequently passed over in subsequent Space Marine foundings, the Dark Angels have periodically been requested to give gene-seed to found new Chapters." So, we have a clear statement that more than just one additional new Chapter as a Successor to the Dark Angels has been created. The same page states "The Dark Angels Successor Chapters collectively call themselves the Unforgiven, for their own Inner Circles are aware of the ancient Legion's history, and they too seek to absolve themselves of the ancient failure." So we can see from the title of the page "Dark Angel Successor Chapters" and these two blurbs, there are Unforgiven Chapters beyond just the original 2nd Founding ones, created after that and included in the Unforgiven with their own Inner Circles.

 

That same Codex also states the same fact about the Disciple of Caliban being created in the 37th Millennium.

 

- 7th Edition Codex: Page 22, "several other Chapters are believed to have descended from the Sons of the Lion in the millennia since." is the only other specific statement beyond the naming of the six official already known Successors. Page 23 references the Disciples of Caliban again as above.

 

Sorry, I'm an old school player and I know what happens when mods are crossed in a bad mood these days. I'll just let it sit there.

[Wrath of Bruinen]

So over in the N&R section some of the chaos points costs have been leaked, including CSM bikers and terminators both being 31 points/model before wargear upgrades. Not to tread too far down the dark path of speculation, I do have to wonder what this will mean for our own deathwing and ravenwing.

[Stormxlr]

I like the new primaris marines except for the one glaring flaw that they have.

 

They are missing their motorcycles.

 

I hoping that the Primis Marines will become the new standard marine sculpt moving forward.

If I'm right, then GW will fix that flaw in the next year or so.

primaris marines on FW outrider bikes would look cool i think

[Pbenner]

Does anyone have any word on the status of things like Mortis Dreadnoughts (Not Contemptor Mortis, plain Mortis) or the like?  Am really itching to see this since I've always cared for them.  

 

Am super excited to be able to stack 2 different units in my Storm Eagles and bring the pain though.  Hope it works well.

 

^_^

[Bryan Blaire]

There are supposed to be ForgeWorld indexes for the new Edition as well.

[jbaeza94]

Edited May 30, 2017 by jbaeza94

[Orkinstein]

Cypher and Fallen now are in Chaos book.

[StellarElite]

Cypher and Fallen now are in Chaos book.

Where they belong.

[Master Sheol]

There are no leaks for DA

I go to play Assetto Corsa and Dawn of War 3 until my books arrive (12/13 june)

[ChaosPhoenix]

There are leaks. I'll give you some. 

 

Belial allows to reroll failed hit rolls 6" around him. With the Sword of Silence he always wounds on 2+, except vehicles. The Sword also comes with a parrying dagger, reducing enemy hit rolls by 1.

 

Death Wing Knights are T4, but W3. Their flails do 2 damage. Bbuuutt "unused" damage spills over to new modells. They come with an item that ignores psychic powers on  a 3+, but is destroyed after one successful save.

 

Death Wing Terminators have the same item.

 

Black Wing Knights move 14" standard.

 

Apothecaries are multi wound characters.

 

Venerable Dreadnoughts hit on +2/+2 and are T7 W7 or 8.

 

Azreals helmet got a range upgrade.

 

Is that ok for now?

[Master Sheol]

Not bad Thanks

Most are same as now but They are not bad in 7th so i guess They will be good in 8th too

Edited May 30, 2017 by Master Sheol