Iron Hands in Shadow Wars?

[Token]

Are there any chapter that would fit as Iron Hands in the rules?

Perhaps using chaos as Iron Hands, with nurgle or the one that gives inv. save counting as their bionics?

[Brother Tyler]

The problem with the Chaos special rules (Marks) is that they only apply to the special operatives - they won't affect your main kill team at all.

 

As it is, you are stuck with the Space Marine Scouts kill team [for truly "loyalist" Space Marines, aside from Grey Knights]. With the exception of the Scout Sergeant, Iron Hands Scouts probably don't have enough augmetics to have any tangible rules benefits.

 

If the Space Marine Scouts faction and Chaos Space Marines faction rules are anything to go by, even if Games Workshop eventually releases rules for power armoured Space Marines as a stand alone faction, you're not likely to see special rules for most of the Chapters. I'm working on some unofficial rules for power armoured Space Marines right now, but they follow the model of the Scouts (i.e., little in the way of Chapter-specific rules).

 

All that said, you could use the Chaos Space Marine faction rules, but don't bother trying to justify bionics (i.e., don't feel restricted to using a Mark of Chaos simply for the bionic-like effect). You'd probably want to avoid the Chaos Spawn special operative. Chaos Cultists could represent thralls. Everything else is sufficiently close to loyalist Space Marines, so understanding opponents should be fine.

[WarriorFish]

The Marks aren't special operative only: "The following special rule applies to all members of a Chaos Space Marines kill team, other than Chaos Cultists", so you can make full use of them. Otherwise I wouldn't worry too much about how you represent IHs, as Tyler said Scouts won't likely have any bionics of note so I'd go with whatever you wanted

[Brother Tyler]

That's how I interpreted it the first time, too. And then I saw the following:

 

 

Marks of Chaos: When you recruit a model with this ability, pick a Mark of Chaos to give them and modify your roster accordingly...

(emphasis added)

 

The only models that explicitly have the option to pick a Mark of Chaos rule are the special operatives (per their Wargear entries). ;)

 

Personally, I don't like the limitation. I'd like to take a Plague Marine, a Noise Marine Gunner (death by electric bass!), a Khorne Berzerker, and an Undivided Leader, all with the appropriate Marks.

 

My RAW interpretation, though, says that I can't do that. I'd love to see GW either errata this (if the RAW interpretation is correct) or provide clarification (if my RAW interpretation is incorrect).

[Token]

Hm, seems like its only the SO's, might be so. Seemed a Little overpowered that all the marines could have T5. People seem to Think its all marines, from looking at battle reports (Youtube).

But the teams that come with the book? Anyone that could fit as Iron Hands with skills or such?

[WarriorFish]

I thought it was pretty clear? The rule says the below applies to all non-cultists members, so they'd have Mark of Chaos from that directly.

[Antarius]

I thought it was pretty clear? The rule says the below applies to all non-cultists members, so they'd have Mark of Chaos from that directly.

Yeah. It's also right next to the chaos marine options, so I also think it's quite obvious that it's not supposed to be SO's only. And as you said, even going by RAW it's clear that everyone but cultists have the rule.

 

I think a team full of Nurgle marks is going to be pretty crazy, however.

[WarriorFish]

Well, we all know what GW rules can be like sometimes... :P

[Brother Tyler]

To be clear, I hope that my RAW reading [of the Chaos Space Marine Mark of Chaos special rule] is incorrect and that the RAI is for other models to have access to the Marks. However, we should shift that discussion over to the Chaos Space Marines forum and leave this discussion to playing Iron Hands.

 

And since the Iron Hands are already covered in the official rules via the Space Marine Scouts faction, the purpose is to either figure out which set of skills to use or which other faction might be used to represent power armoured Iron Hands.

 

I think that Token's idea of using Chaos Space Marines (whatever their correct rules happen to be ) is a good one, and probably the only real viable option at this point unless/until Games Workshop ever presents official rules for power armoured loyalist non-Grey Knights Space Marines. The only weakness is the cultists and the spawn. Cultists could be used to represent really weak scouts (counter-intuitive to the background of the Chapter, but oh well) while spawn might be used to represent some Mechanicum construct, I suppose. I would love to see conversions of the spawn/Mechanicum constructs, for anyone that decides to pursue that option.

[WarriorFish]

Options are limited if you want a PA team, so it's a moot point in that regard. You could easily take a Termie or Raptor for your operative if you wanted to avoid getting creative with a spawn GK are a bit too different but you could use them to represent some Veterans with fancier equipment? It feels like a bit of a stretch to me but certainly workable.

[Token]

Oh, so there are Iron Hands in Armageddon allready? I dont own the rules so...

[Brother Tyler]

No, the Iron Hands don't have rules in Shadow War: Armageddon. By that I mean that they don't have a named skill tree. You could always use the Space Marine Scouts faction since it is intended to apply to pretty much all of the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes (definitely excluding the Grey Knights, and most likely also excluding the Deathwatch, but that's it); and choose whichever skill tree you want from among the various Space Marine sub-factions:

• Sons of Guilliman (named for the Chapter, but applicable to all Ultramarines Successors, I suppose)
• White Scars
• Blood Angels
• Salamanders
• Space Wolves
• Angels of Redemption (named for the Chapter, but applicable to all Dark Angels Successors, I suppose)

[Vel'Cona]

Eh, that dampens my interest in the game somewhat.  I know they have a metric ton of successors/variants to consider but it's kind of sad to see IH ignored.

[Panzer]

Eh, that dampens my interest in the game somewhat.  I know they have a metric ton of successors/variants to consider but it's kind of sad to see IH ignored.

Don't worry, the differences are really not that huge between the chapters. You can only have that many skilltree combinations until you start repeating yourself. ^^

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

Eh, that dampens my interest in the game somewhat.  I know they have a metric ton of successors/variants to consider but it's kind of sad to see IH ignored.

It's only because the Iron Hands weren't around after the 3rd War for Armageddon.

[Brother Tyler]

I've been working on rules for a [power armoured] Space Marines faction in Shadow War: Armageddon and have taken an initial stab at things. These rules include rules for the Iron Hands.

 

You can see Playtest V1.0 here.

 

I'd appreciate any feedback that you can provide to make this a better (and balanced) product.

[Brother Tyler]

Here is the final version of the Iron Hands rules in my project:

IRON HANDS

The Iron Hands and their successors venerate the purity of the machine over the weakness of mere flesh. Their proliferation of bionics renders Iron Hands forces nigh unstoppable in battle.

The Flesh is Weak: An Iron Hands Veteran Sergeant may take bionics for 50 points when the kill team is initially created. If an Iron Hands fighter misses a battle due to the Painful Recovery result on the Serious Injury table, he may take bionics for 50 points, though he must miss an additional battle. All Iron Hands special operatives are automatically recruited with bionics.

Chapter troopers may take Ferocity, Guerilla, and Shooting skills.

Chapter Specialists may take Ferocity, Guerilla, Muscle, and Shooting skills.

Chapter Leaders may take Combat, Ferocity, Guerilla, Muscle, Shooting, and Stealth skills.

BIONICS

Some Chapters, notably the Iron Hands Chapter and their successors, make extensive use of bionics in replacing body parts that have suffered serious injuries.

A fighter with bionics may re-roll results on the Injury and Serious Injury tables.

There are also some larger changes, though these affect all Chapters. These include some additional weapons and wargear (power mauls, power axes, power fists, grav weapons).

[Brother Tyler]

With the main Space Marine Kill Teams rules nearly finished (just getting some pictures in so that I can make them available for download), I've moved forward with the Chapters that participated in the Badab War.

 

For fans of the Iron Hands and their successors, the Sons of Medusa participated in the Badab War on the side of the Loyalists.

 

You can see my initial stab at rules for the Sons of Medusa here. I've made them exactly like the Iron Hands, but if you can find compelling reasons to make some adjustments, I'm all ears.