8th Edition Guard Discussion

[Indefragable]

Not much to go off of, but it adds to the drip drip drip of information:

 

https://twitter.com/GeekJockPete/status/856936882084745217

 

Platoons are here to stay.

[DrLoveMonkey]

Well that's good to hear, I have to admit I've been worried that list building would be majorly simplified and we wouldn't have our cool command structure anymore, but looks like it stays! Also if the units are as playtested and balanced as they supposedly are maybe I can bring 2-3 platoons like I've always wanted.

[Otto von Bludd]

I just hope veterans as troops are here to stay.

[Captain_Krash]

I was worried as well as we basically have one of the most flexible troops choices in the game when it comes to customization, I'm very happy this is not going away. That and Heavy weapon teams... they are going to see a come back, and I for one can't Freaking wait!!!!

Krash

[Lord Marshal]

I just hope veterans as troops are here to stay.

 

Veterans serve the important role of being the first steps into a Guard army for many, since most people are not going to want to spend £90 for the Shock Troop boxes (four Infantry Squads, two Platoon Commands) necessary to get the minimum Troop choices. I seriously don't see them getting rid of Veterans as Troops for that reason. 

 

I would like to see 3.5 Grenadiers make a come back though (Storm Troopers count as Troops but they lose Deep Strike/Infiltrate), if only as a lore-friendly way of fielding Karskin again without them being 'count as' Scions or pretending their Hot-shots are actually Lasguns.

[duz_]

Well that's good to hear, I have to admit I've been worried that list building would be majorly simplified and we wouldn't have our cool command structure anymore, but looks like it stays! Also if the units are as playtested and balanced as they supposedly are maybe I can bring 2-3 platoons like I've always wanted.

 

I would love to viably run 2 30+ man platoons and have them be a survivable threat to my opponent!! :)

[Indefragable]

I was worried as well as we basically have one of the most flexible troops choices in the game when it comes to customization, I'm very happy this is not going away. That and Heavy weapon teams... they are going to see a come back, and I for one can't Freaking wait!!!!

Krash

I just hope veterans as troops are here to stay.

Veterans serve the important role of being the first steps into a Guard army for many, since most people are not going to want to spend £90 for the Shock Troop boxes (four Infantry Squads, two Platoon Commands) necessary to get the minimum Troop choices. I seriously don't see them getting rid of Veterans as Troops for that reason.

I would like to see 3.5 Grenadiers make a come back though (Storm Troopers count as Troops but they lose Deep Strike/Infiltrate), if only as a lore-friendly way of fielding Karskin again without them being 'count as' Scions or pretending their Hot-shots are actually Lasguns.

I hope HWT's count as T5 or 6W or something. Being able to survive more than a single round would certainly help their case.

I would love to see "Build a Bear" Veterans where they are fairly straightforward to start (kinda like they are now, slightly better Guardsmen), but can be upgraded out the wazoo to fulfill whatever role(s) you like.

Say Vets are 60pts base, you can pick an armor (Carapace, or trade in Flak for Recon Armor 6+ sv but +1" move to all phases) for x pts, Camo Cloaks for x pts, Scout Doctrine (gives Scout/Infiltrate*) for x pts, Specialists (choice of Tank Hunters, Monster Hunters, Skyfire/Interceptor, or Counter/Attack + Rage + Furious Charge*), and then weapon choices up the wazoo as well (everything from pistol + CQC to lasgun to hotshot lasgun etc..). The idea is that you have a direct correlation between a few boyz with lots of toyz or vice versa. But with how streamlined things appear to be in 8th, I bet we will see less customization instead of more.

Of course there's the holy grail or wishlisting for IG: Regimental Doctrines!

[ViperS]

And bolters having AP:- means flak armor gets to make saves against bolters!

[Brother Captain Ed]

And bolters having AP:- means flak armor gets to make saves against bolters!

I'd be REALLY careful about rejoicing over that just yet.  There are still lots of ways bolters will eat flak armor and equivalent alive that doesn't rely on the profile.

[our_baz]

 

And bolters having AP:- means flak armor gets to make saves against bolters!

 

I'd be REALLY careful about rejoicing over that just yet. There are still lots of ways bolters will eat flak armor and equivalent alive that doesn't rely on the profile.

Looking at prob at worst 3+ to wound, with flak armour giving a 6+ save. Granted that is a save, just wouldn't want to rely on it though!

[Captain_Krash]

I doubt it though. Any -1 armor save mechanic would work on vehicles too so that's why they have no AP.

 

Balance reasons. There's no way they'll be "special ammunition" for standard codex bolters. It just wouldn't make sense.

 

Krash  

[NatBrannigan]

All the changes so far look exciting to me. More survivable vehicles is of course a winner for us but the streamlining and hopefully speeding up of the game is great too. Good bye templates. No more shall I feel bad about firing my Wyvern or Mortar team and taking 5 minutes to work out hits and wounds, or guilty about claiming another perfectly legitimate hit for the poor sod who the template is just clipping! Of course if the same rules apply to other current template weapons Battle Cannons are going to become interesting... Scatter is gone so will they be more or less reliable / killy than now I wonder? Can't wait to find out.

 

More importantly it will mean that I don't give myself a massive handicap by deploying my Praetorian platoons in lovely straight ranks (as any proper officer knows is the ONLY way to deploy) only for a flamer wielding cultist to pop up and BBQ the lot... It shouldn't matter if my men are the full 2" apart or base to base now, and that makes me feel all warm inside.

 

Talk of "command points" makes me think that doctrines will be able to be simulated in some way. similar to the flying Dwarves that have just come out for AoS perhaps. Pick a Regiment from the list and spend command points on advantages for said regiment?

[Indefragable]

On a different note ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/ ) ....

 

"If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers."

 

[Captain_Krash]

Very true Brother NatBrannigan thematically to see IG gun lines is going to be beautiful on the table top. Especially with the new fall back from/move out of combat rule It would be very interesting if they go the AoS Overlords route for IG command points to be pseudo Doctrines.

 

Very exciting times to be a guard player.

 

 

Krash

[Lord Marshal]

On a different note ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/ ) ....

 

"If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers."

 

[Indefragable]

 

 

On a different note ( https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/ ) ....

 

"If you’re in combat at the start of your turn, you can Fall Back by moving away from the enemy. You’ll lose the ability to advance, shoot or charge that turn, and crucially, enemies will be able to shoot at you! This does, however, open up a vast range of tactical options for armies like the Astra Militarum, who will now be able to effectively deploy in firing lines, with each row falling back from any assaults in good order (if they survived) while the unit behind them fires at the attackers."

YESSSSSSSS

[The Pounder]

I think you completely nailed what we were all thinking!!

[Captain_Krash]

Seriously so perfect!!!

 

Krash

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Has there ever been an edition of 40K where the Guard didn't have platoons? I know they have had them at least since 3rd edition ...

 

Glad to see that they're staying. Personally, I've never liked veterans as a troop choice. To me, they should be an elites choice similar to how marine veterans are elite. I think, however, that IG should have another option that's smaller than a platoon to fill out troops. If I were designing a codex, I'd have something along the lines Armoured Fist Squads, Penal Legion, and maybe some kind of scout/recon unit as troops.

 

EDIT: ... and of course conscript squads as a stand-alone option. That would actually give four options for troops, 3/4 possibly being 10-man squads. No need for veterans as troops under that setup.

[ThatOneMarshal]

We just got a pretty strong buff in that you can overwach multiplie times now. Now everyone has to suffer the wrath of a 100 lasguns!

[Captain_Krash]

Yeah IG seems, even with the limited spoilers thus far to be reaching decent power levels just based on the actual rules. I can't wait to see what the codex brings someday.

 

Krash

[NatBrannigan]

we certainly seem to have more actual options with tanks no longer being made out of cotton wool and selotatpe, coupled with the new moving out of combat mechanic and removal of templates. Should see more firing lines nicely set up to cover each other and less massive blobs shielding tanks. Make guardsman great again!

 

The videos above are exactly what popped into my head as well, my Praetorians might finally be able to fight in the way I've always wanted them to, without it being suicidal.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I sure hope the new rules and points do balance things out. I played s tournament this past weekend with marines and while I am all in favour of a challenge, it was night and day to playing Guard (my first 40k love).

 

Man you guys are making me want to start a Praetorian army with all this chatter and the videos. I had a praetorian force back in the day which I foolishly sold but on the other hand kit bashing with Victoria Lamb's stuff would make even better Praetorians today (plus my painting skills are way way better).

[Captain_Krash]

Brother Nicodemus!!!! How could you???

VIctoria's stuff is really nice. The scale is a little larger though but still beautiful. Col.Gravis has his own line which mirrors GW heroic scale perfectly I'd take a look at his stuff if you are really interested. I'm going to use his stuff to make veterans/(rough riders if they make it into the next edition) for My Praetorians.

Krash

[duz_]

I sure hope the new rules and points do balance things out. I played s tournament this past weekend with marines and while I am all in favour of a challenge, it was night and day to playing Guard (my first 40k love).

 

Man you guys are making me want to start a Praetorian army with all this chatter and the videos. I had a praetorian force back in the day which I foolishly sold but on the other hand kit bashing with Victoria Lamb's stuff would make even better Praetorians today (plus my painting skills are way way better).

Do it! :D :tu: