8th Edition Guard Discussion

[Zectz]

I'm curious how they are going to change blast weapons. I like the change to flamers but I think Guard will Heavy rely on what mechanic replaces blast markers. All of the artilllary & Leman Russ tanks etc. I hope it's a nice change as I long for the day that Motor Heavy Weapon Squads are viable again. Along with grenade launchers in veteran/infantry squads.

[Captain_Krash]

I'm thinking D3 for Blast weapons. And possibly 1d6 or even 2d6 for Ordance Blast weapons. I'm assuming "Ordance" will confer other abilities as well maybe ignores cover, or reduce movement, just speculation of course.

 

Krash

[NatBrannigan]

I've literally just done a head swap for mine, the Kromlech Pith heads fit nicely onto the current Cadian range and with an appropriate paint job I think they look great! They do Kilt legs as well which I've used for my Veterans. Curious Constructs do Pith Helmet heads for Ogryns which is next on my list :)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Brother Nicodemus!!!! How could you???

VIctoria's stuff is really nice. The scale is a little larger though but still beautiful. Col.Gravis has his own line which mirrors GW heroic scale perfectly I'd take a look at his stuff if you are really interested. I'm going to use his stuff to make veterans/(rough riders if they make it into the next edition) for My Praetorians.

Krash

I know I know ... LOL!

Thanks for the tip on Col. Gravis ... never saw his bitz before but they look perfect!

You guys are corrupting me ... maybe it's time to start a new thread to brainstorm ideas on doing Praetorians

[Indefragable]

...speaking of Platoons....

 

 

With the new Charge/Fight phases in 8th, I'm thinking bringing a platoon is going to be almost mandatory for us now. Couple 10-man infantry squads as screeners to charges and such.

[Captain_Krash]

Absolutely!

 

A few battle lines set up with countercharging units to leap frog. Potentially could use older military line tactics with the IG now and be actually effective.

 

Krash   

[duz_]

Im really glad to see that change plus the only -1 modifier to moving HWTs

 

Plus seemingly no AP5 from bolters means my mordians could well be flooding the tables shortly

[WarriorFish]

I thought the Platoon was almost mandatory in most cases already...

[Captain_Krash]

No...most folks take veterans in standard CAD. The Infantry Platoon is mostly forgotten .

 

Krash

[duz_]

I thought the Platoon was almost mandatory in most cases already...

 

That is correct Commissar,

Although as many of my tournament reports would suggest I have sent countless hordes of platoons to combat the filthy traitor and xenos threats. However after this often resulted wide scale depletion of my forces, even when forcibly positioned behind cover (Mordians can be stubborn like that) they only blunted the enemies onslaught. 

 

The few remaining veteran regiments I had remaining we better suited as Armoured Fist.

 

However it sounds like the Emperor is looking down upon us and reinforcements shall arrive shortly so we can smite our enemies with the boots of Imperial Guardsmen. :tu:

[WarriorFish]

The army lists section has plenty of Platoon lists and I don't leave home without one - Vets may be tasty with their special weapons and BS4 but they are sadly all to easily removed. At least Guard can say that both Troop choices have a role which is more than others?

 

The problem is that the Platoon has little going for it further than the numbers which is a bit rubbish. While they can be equipped to handle enemy infantry without breaking the bank and you can get a fair few squads on the table to absorb losses and protect valuable units it's basically a numbers game with their lower costs. So 8th may have some new rules to make Platoons more viable what we really need is an improvement to their capabilities.

 

Something we've discussed before, but with New GW I'm feeling optimistic ;)

[Tallarn Commander]

Krash, as Duz and Warrior Fish note, platoons are quite common in many metas. I always bring at least one platoon. In addition, out of the four other IG armies I've seen at tournaments in 2016-17, all had at least one platoon.

 

Almost all of my lists feature at least 1 infantry platoon, 1 conscript platoon, and 1 mechvet squad or deepstriking MT scions squad. I find this variety works best for me as each specializes in a respective task.

 

-Platoons: ranged shooting buffed by orders, bubble wrapping, and holding homefield objectives

-Conscripts: tarpitting, midfield objective grabbing, gaining board control, and bubble wrapping

-mechvets and scions: killing enemy elite units and armor with melta and plasma, grabbing objectives in midfield or in the opponents' deployment zone

[Mithrilforge]

Krash, as Duz and Warrior Fish note, platoons are quite common in many metas. I always bring at least one platoon. In addition, out of the four other IG armies I've seen at tournaments in 2016-17, all had at least one platoon.

 

Almost all of my lists feature at least 1 infantry platoon, 1 conscript platoon, and 1 mechvet squad or deepstriking MT scions squad. I find this variety works best for me as each specializes in a respective task.

 

-Platoons: ranged shooting buffed by orders, bubble wrapping, and holding homefield objectives

-Conscripts: tarpitting, midfield objective grabbing, gaining board control, and bubble wrapping

-mechvets and scions: killing enemy elite units and armor with melta and plasma, grabbing objectives in midfield or in the opponents' deployment zone

 

I'm Guessing from what iv'e read briefly of the new System is that Tarpitting won't be do able any more due to being able to break from a combat?...

the way wounds and weapon damage changes are looking, heavy weapon squads may be more appealing to field (i'll be happy with that,they look too cool not to bring)

 

Mithril

[Captain_Krash]

Correct but most metas contain Tank armies and veterans. Platoons typically take a back seat.

 

Krash

[Mithrilforge]

Correct but most metas contain Tank armies and veterans. Platoons typically take a back seat.

Krash

Well, lets hope 8th changes all that ...

Mithril

[duz_]

With the loss of tarpitting Im trying to think what role conscripts would play other than bulk bubble wrap or area denial?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

Krash, as Duz and Warrior Fish note, platoons are quite common in many metas. I always bring at least one platoon. In addition, out of the four other IG armies I've seen at tournaments in 2016-17, all had at least one platoon.

 

Almost all of my lists feature at least 1 infantry platoon, 1 conscript platoon, and 1 mechvet squad or deepstriking MT scions squad. I find this variety works best for me as each specializes in a respective task.

 

-Platoons: ranged shooting buffed by orders, bubble wrapping, and holding homefield objectives

-Conscripts: tarpitting, midfield objective grabbing, gaining board control, and bubble wrapping

-mechvets and scions: killing enemy elite units and armor with melta and plasma, grabbing objectives in midfield or in the opponents' deployment zone

 

I'm Guessing from what iv'e read briefly of the new System is that Tarpitting won't be do able any more due to being able to break from a combat?...

the way wounds and weapon damage changes are looking, heavy weapon squads may be more appealing to field (i'll be happy with that,they look too cool not to bring)

 

Mithril

 

 

It does seem that tar-pitting won't really be doable since the enemy can break from combat, however, the squad that breaks from said combat still cannot shoot or charge. And then you can likely re-charge them with your conscripts again on your turn. So they should still have a role. Hopefully Munitorum priests or commissars will be able to mitigate the "battle shock" losses to keep them quasi-fearless.

 

Correct but most metas contain Tank armies and veterans. Platoons typically take a back seat.

 

Krash

 

This has been my observation as well, on the rare occasions that I see Imperial Guard deployed at local tournaments. However, this may be a factor of it being a lot faster/easier to paint a couple squads in chimerae plus tanks versus painting 50+ guardsmen.

[duz_]

So with the new morale mechanic thats really going to be tough for enemies to deal with blob platoons!

20-50 guards men only losing a small fraction per turn (not phase!) of models! :)

I wonder what buff's commissars and priests will offer now

[robofish7591]

I don't really think tarpitting is going away, but rather that the method of tarpitting something is changing.  Lets say conscripts charge something and the other unit retreats.  That unit now can't do anything on its turn, yes the conscripts will be open to getting shot by the rest of the enemy army, but that means your opponent is shooting at conscripts and not the rest of your army.  Then when your turn rolls around, they conscripts are going to charge the unit that you want tarpitted again, which means you are pushing it back away from your line and you are going to get to strike first in close combat again.  The more I think about things like that, the more I like this new system.  

[duz_]

Yeh I do like the sounds of that. :)

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Sounds like the way I use my tarpit unit now (its a combined platoon with flamers, not conscripts, but the same principles apply) - move up to an enemy, shoot/flame it, then sit there.  If they want to charge me, fine, or if not, also fine.  Its only units with flamers that I would want to stay stuck in with, and if they can't shoot if they retreat, I can continue to deny it shots - either by charging it again, or by getting stuck in with something else.

 

Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui

[NatBrannigan]

All my infantry squads have a grenade launcher (I can't remember my reason for doing that) and I always fire them as Krak grenades because I can't be bothered to work out 3 or 4 templates... Lazy I know but if Frag grenades are changing to something like D3 hits, I'd use them appropriately. I've always kept flamers on my PCS's and they look as useful as ever for Guard :)

 

Can't wait to see what happens with Blasts! I hate the idea of all my Leman Russ firing, rolling a load of 1's, 2's and 3's to hit and doing nothing, but templates are gone. Do GW have an option 3 up their sleeve? I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt on current evidence :)

[Harrowmaster]

Apparently characters won't be able to join units so unless AOE buffs become a thing Commisars might not be worth it

[Captain_Krash]

Or.... they won't count as characters and be "Advisors" which can be attached.

 

We will have to see.

 

Krash

[The Pounder]

They used to have the Advisers rule didn't they?

I love the models so would be amazing if they were worth taking again!

I'm feeling really positive about 8th, looks like it'll breathe new life into 40k!