Khornestar Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) It's mostly speculation at this point, but it seems like the new edition just might end up making all/most/some of the vehicles from the IA:13/Vraks lists worthwhile. The ability to move and shoot heavy weapons at -1 BS alone is a tremendous (and awesome) change. We can actually move and shoot our rapiers, heavy weapon teams, and even the humble Leman Russ seems like it will be able to move and shoot everything at -1 BS. I'm looking forward to actually building and using my Wyverns. I know they were pretty good in 7th, but honestly, the thought of resolving all those small blast templates turned me off so much that I didn't even build the things. How good the army will actually be depends on a lot we don't know. Are the units still cheaper, less accurate, worse supplied versions of loyalist IG? Is the army list totally intact, with new rules/points for everything, or have some units been pared away? Were the FW armies play-tested the way the GW armies were? Will FW have the same annual (or whatever) commitment to updating and fixing broken units? Many questions; I admit I'm skeptical FW will give any releases continued support, but right out of the gate I'm excited by the vast possibilities for the army in the new edition. Hopefully they put a bit more thought into the list this time around. Out of all the armies updated for the new edition, I'm most excited and have the highest hopes for Renegades & Heretics. What think you, mortal champions? Edited May 1, 2017 by Venomlust Greenz and Plaguecaster 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshed Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I share your concerns and hopes Venomlust but as you said it is all speculation. If FW does support us with the rest of the release that would be amazing. But I have a feeling I'll end up doing what I always do which is turning to the loyalist side to fill in for the renegade aspect. I hope that is not the case but...it is FW after all Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4726906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenz Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Another rule I'm thinking R&H could benefit from is the ability to fall back from a combat. Considering the lack of competent CC units in the list, this rule has the potential to be huge My biggest question pertaining to the R&H this edition, is if GW will take over the reins on these guys and make them an "official" army. We all know FW isn't the best with FAQs and erratas, and itd be awesome to see these guys get the proper support from GW. Literally days before the concrete rumours of 8th surfaced, I picked up the starter AdMech box and a box of GSC hybrids to start my nurgle DarkMech army. Now everything's on hold till this clears. Perfect timing eh? Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4726982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 1, 2017 Author Share Posted May 1, 2017 Perfect timing, indeed. ;) I also hope that GW takes over the 40k rules for FW products. Doubtful, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4727027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I hope that our unending horde formation stays around somehow, but I doubt it. I'm pretty optimistic so far with 8th. Only time will tell! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4727156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 2, 2017 Author Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) I honestly think it's only minor tweaks that will improve the entire army. Cheaper infantry, for one, since the cheapest of them are currently the most useful IMO. Not cheaper zombies, but for the elite units (OGRYNS, what the ) should be cheaper for sure. And let them take a transport, while we're at it. And get rid of the stupid variable leadership, for sake. Better/appropriately costed upgrades for the units, as well. Everything had better WS than BS, despite having poor options. Anyway, I could go on forever. I also hope they let our heavy weapon teams take heavy flamers this time around so I can use the dudes I built for 30k. Edited May 2, 2017 by Venomlust Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4727162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 It would be really nice if power weapons were in our special weapons list. The CC punch would be nice, even if probably way overcosted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4727257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Kinda sad about the loss of templates for artillery spam hopefully we still have acces to some weapon which can put a ton of hits on stuff in a single blast, I hope we still get the purge dettachment as i basically just use that for my renegades and CSMs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4727347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeresyBeliever Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Kinda sad about the loss of templates for artillery spam hopefully we still have acces to some weapon which can put a ton of hits on stuff in a single blast, I hope we still get the purge dettachment as i basically just use that for my renegades and CSMs The loss of templates will be a big kick in the teeth for renegades. But we haven't seen any spec on damage yet for say a battle cannon. We have seen flamer info which looks good, so i have my fingers crossed. For example a small blast does D6 auto hits and a large blast does 2D6 auto hits. That would be good! Given our to hit roll which should be 5+. I think in the end it would be better and deal more damage. Less chance of missing with the first template and the rest of the squad not being able to fire. 3 x 2D6 heavy motor shots for what was 90 points. That would be like average 21 S6 hits. I'd take that all day long! The purge is gone in 8th until FW do a Battle Tomb style book which they will likely not do for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised given all the Chaos spreading on the new maps GW have released, if GW do a renegade army list in there Chaos Battle book when it gets released. Plaguecaster 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4727426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Uveron Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Iam looking forward to it. I love my R&H army, it just takes forever to play. The Loss of Templates will help a lot to make it a much faster army. I know it may limit the number of units we can hit, but I don't think it will be a huge loss. We should be able to wreck a targeted unit, and then let the next gun target another spot. I also expect FW will be supportive of new 40K. they did well with AOS (Including putting the units in the official apps) Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4731031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Perfect timing, indeed. I also hope that GW takes over the 40k rules for FW products. Doubtful, though. I agree Venom, I simply do not buy forgeworld. It's extrememely expensive, shipping is expensive, I don't like the resin (don't get me started on how many piexes of my friends tantalus I have seen snap when it tips over), plus I try to support my local GW manager since it is close and I play there. I started buying up AM in 6th right when their new codex dropped because I could use them as allies of convenience with my CSM. Then 7th said NOOOOOPE. Booo. Now come R&H which is a cool idea. Battle Brothers with CSM is cool and all, but I don't like the layouts of those Forge World books. 2 different random books to get? Weird force org charts that are specific to a particular battle that was fought in a planet/system? Just let me buy a F*'N codex for them already! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4733580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I hope wyverns get to re-roll the number of hits (I expect it to be d3 per shot) in return for losing twin-linked. Ignore covers will be good vs everything if they keep it, since units can stack cover on to armor now. Also, if wyverns keep re-roll to wound, they will also be great at hurting vehicles (any vehicle with less than T8 will get hurt on at least a 5+ with re-roll!). Heavy ordnance carriages shooting basilisk shells can now hopefully do a little more damage to 2+ armor. I expect non-scatter deep strike, which would be awesome for commando units and for allied Chaos Terminators. Moving and firing with rapiers would be great, if we can finally do it. And we will be able to shoot at flyers with rapiers now! I'm afraid zombies will only move 4" or 5" but oh well. And they will take losses in combat I'm sure, like the old fearless. Also sucks. But maybe now they can fall back? I hope we keep the existing Devotions, but the new force org detachment charts should be great for taking more heavy stuff. spafe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4733850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 I was thinking about moving and shooting with rapiers, and I got really excited until I remembered that without the militia training, they'll be BS5 and still be hitting on 6's (snap-shooting now, -1 BS in 8th). :D But WITH militia training (if it still exists), hell yeah! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4733907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I hope wyverns get to re-roll the number of hits (I expect it to be d3 per shot) in return for losing twin-linked. Ignore covers will be good vs everything if they keep it, since units can stack cover on to armor now. Also, if wyverns keep re-roll to wound, they will also be great at hurting vehicles (any vehicle with less than T8 will get hurt on at least a 5+ with re-roll!). Heavy ordnance carriages shooting basilisk shells can now hopefully do a little more damage to 2+ armor. I am so stoked for wyverns now. I love their model, but I refuse to buy and use them because 1. I hate templates 2. whenever opponents use them they take like 10 minutes to resolve their shooting for each unit. I HHAAAATTEEE THAT! 3. I often fight monstrous and gargantuans creatures. With the removal of templates, assuming wyverns still do multiple twin linked shredding hits... wow. I may be able to ally some into my DG force and bombard wraithknights to death now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4734064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I think it will be a good change as long as FW doesnt take too long to produce the amended rules. I spent all winter building up my Renegades, hundreds of infantry and artillery, eager to roll them out. Im thinking Ordnance Tyrant will probably be gone since templates are no more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4734845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Warsmith Uveron, Akrim and Lord Marshal 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4735250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 They have said that from the start. My concern is, "What is a model". Is it all the existing unit entries in the two R&H books, or is it just a data sheet for any physical model? The actual range of R&H models is limited, since we borrow models from the IG range. Also, having datasheet rules isn't the same as having unique detachments, devotion rules, other army special rules, etc. On the other hand FW sat on the R&H stuff for two years even though the books and rules had problems, so ideally they would already have prepared a complete replacement of the rules in IA:13 and IA: Vraks including new stuff like relics. One can dream? spafe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4735300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Uveron Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 They have said that from the start. My concern is, "What is a model". Is it all the existing unit entries in the two R&H books, or is it just a data sheet for any physical model? The actual range of R&H models is limited, since we borrow models from the IG range. Also, having datasheet rules isn't the same as having unique detachments, devotion rules, other army special rules, etc. Well with the AOS stuff they did for Chaos Dwarfs, a number of units they just said Use X war scroll with the following Keywords added. Which I kinda expect for R&H Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4735358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Besides, chaos renegades is a range of models on their website. There are things borrowed from IG for sure, but they have a heavy presence on FWs page... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4735378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 That's awesome I just hope my poor old plague hulk will still be getting rules since they have been discontinued by FW :( Would be nice if the updated renegades rules were a bit like the good old lost and the damned lost from the old eye of terror book I loved that army and was pretty awesome as I could have chaos marines as my overloads of traitors, zombies and mutants :D The character rules seem interesting do you reckon our compulsory command squad with our warlord will stay the way it is Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4735596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeresyBeliever Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Looking at the new weapon details coming out today it looks like large templates do have D6 shots but do not hit automatically which is a bit of a nerf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4736067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 Against blobs of infantry, but against armor and monsters it's better. Just throw our own, assuredly cheaper blobs at their blobs. Blob fiiiiiiiight! With lots of flamers. All the flamers. I'm actually going to bother building my 3 heavy flamer sentinels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4736135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I am hoping that Wyverns are not changed much more, and so that we get 8 shots per Wyverns, with d3 hits per shot (small blast), with re-roll to wound from shred. Heavy ordnance carriages now got worse with a 50% chance to miss shots even with upgraded BS. However, they do now give Renegades the one thing they always lacked: long-range anti-big stuff that can also at least hurt 2+ armor. Now you can reach across the board and with do D6 at BS3 at -2 to armor save with D3 wounds per hit. If they stay cheap, you can just spam the guns and in one good round of shooting, you'll do a huge amount of damage to Wraith Knights, Imperial Knights, Greater Daemons, etc. Also - if rapiers keep twin-linked, you just doubled the number of shots! Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4736285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) Yesss, Milita training upgrade became even more worth it (should it still exist)! Edited May 11, 2017 by Venomlust Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4736861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeresyBeliever Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Also - if rapiers keep twin-linked, you just doubled the number of shots! I hadn't thought of the rapiers. Pros and cons to everything. I think FW will keep most of the rules in place and just transport most things over from the Imperial guard stats (not that FW have been known to be lazy before). if the troops stay cheap then we could be fielding a lot of las guns which can hurt everything now. 200 las gun or other basic shots is cheaper for us to get than any other army. This in its self will be a huge boost if we are still as dirt cheap Khornestar 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333361-8th-a-new-day-for-renegades/#findComment-4737010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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