Ad Mech in 8th Edition

[lancerusso]

Given that the brigade detachment (+9CP) needs 6 troops, I'm going to try MSU skitarii in my local 1750 tourney in two weeks:

 

Min cost brigade is some 1443 points Iirc:

 

3x135 tech priest dominii as 3HQs.

6x50 point rangers/vanguard for 6troops.

3x52 datasmiths or enginseers as 3Elites.

3x63 dragoons w jezzails as fast attack

3x120 onagers with eradication arrays or phosphor.

Comes to 1366.

 

I'll be running two autocannon striders and a taser with serpenta so + 35 points.

 

Datasmiths are so much better than enginseers, but I don't have the models.

 

It's so stupid having to bring three tech priests and three elite characters to field a skitarii cohort of old, but sicarians are bad now but them and epriests are alternative option but I just want more shooty.

 

IMO onagers are better than kastellans. Kastellans die after 6 wounds whereas you can take 10 wounds on an onager and still heal it.

 

If MSU theory is correct then single onagers is infinitely better than a blob squad with practically identical saves and toughness (3+,5++; +1 from aegis vs +1 from shroudpsalm anyway). Sure, onagers can't fire 18x2 shots with shooty protocols, but that would be 272 points minimum and at BS4+ no re rolls. Onagers are 6 shot phosphor for 120 points at BS3+. That means Kastellans, if you can change protocols and not move, you on average get 18 phos hits for 272 points being carried by 12 wounds of yours on T7 on two models.

 

Compare 3 onagers would hit 12 phos for 360 points but carried on 33 wounds. Much more survivable, if comparably deficient in firepower.

[Magos_Adephus]

but sicarians are bad now 

 

Ruststalkers are pretty nerfed, but Infiltrators I think fill their niche even better now.  Vanguard lost their anti-horde ability with the new wound allocation system, but Infiltrators are still nice for wiping out blobs of Boyz.  Even if you're going against some tougher units, if you have a full squad that's 50 shots hitting on 3+, rerolling 1's with Canticles.  You're bound to deal SOME damage.  Tasers are still really nice for close combat as well.  31 attacks, hitting on 3+, Str 6, and hit rolls of 6 deal 3 hits instead of one.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

but sicarians are bad now 

 

Ruststalkers are pretty nerfed, but Infiltrators I think fill their niche even better now.  Vanguard lost their anti-horde ability with the new wound allocation system, but Infiltrators are still nice for wiping out blobs of Boyz.  Even if you're going against some tougher units, if you have a full squad that's 50 shots hitting on 3+, rerolling 1's with Canticles.  You're bound to deal SOME damage.  Tasers are still really nice for close combat as well.  31 attacks, hitting on 3+, Str 6, and hit rolls of 6 deal 3 hits instead of one.

 

honestly the two loadouts now have their own purpose, which is really cool. Tasers and flettche for hordes, swords and carbines for marines. it is a small and nice touch now thanks to the rules change. I also wish they were able to take an omni-spex, seeing as they are now an almost dedicated anti-backfield unit.

 

that said, i'm slowly second guessing if rangers are bad, mostly because of str4 or -1 ap... I would need to try it out, but so far it looks like it could do a bit more damage to marines than the rad carbine?

Edited June 30, 2017 by Tiger9gamer

[lancerusso]

 

 

 

 

but sicarians are bad now

 

Ruststalkers are pretty nerfed, but Infiltrators I think fill their niche even better now. Vanguard lost their anti-horde ability with the new wound allocation system, but Infiltrators are still nice for wiping out blobs of Boyz. Even if you're going against some tougher units, if you have a full squad that's 50 shots hitting on 3+, rerolling 1's with Canticles. You're bound to deal SOME damage. Tasers are still really nice for close combat as well. 31 attacks, hitting on 3+, Str 6, and hit rolls of 6 deal 3 hits instead of one.

honestly the two loadouts now have their own purpose, which is really cool. Tasers and flettche for hordes, swords and carbines for marines. it is a small and nice touch now thanks to the rules change. I also wish they were able to take an omni-spex, seeing as they are now an almost dedicated anti-backfield unit.

 

that said, i'm slowly second guessing if rangers are bad, mostly because of str4 or -1 ap... I would need to try it out, but so far it looks like it could do a bit more damage to marines than the rad carbine?

With the prevalence of Primaris marines, rad carbs are better with 2D. Statistically speaking 2 S4 shots are the same as 3S3 shots in terms of wounds. The 1/6 4+ saves rather than 3+ saves is good but 1/6 shots instagibbing a Primaris is better.

 

Mathhammer: 2S4 shots are only better than the 3S3 carbibes against T6or 7 now:

 

Galv vs Rad:

T3 2*2/3 vs 3*1/2 rad wins

T4 2*1/2 vs 3*1/3 same

T5 2*1/3 vs 3*1/3 rad wins

T6 2*1/3 vs 3*1/6 galv wins

T7 2*1/3 vs 3*1/6 galv wins

T8 2*1/6 vs 3*1/6 rad wins

 

Hence galvanic rifles should be fired at vehicles etc if you have some spare from firing arquebuses

[Steerpike_]

This is going to be impossible to read on mobile.

 

Here's my 1500 point tournament list for this Saturday.

 

After getting really sick of redundantly including a TPD to get up to a battalion, I decided to just embrace the spearhead. 

 

From just 200 points of guard you can build a solid bubble, and net yourself 3 more command points. There are definitely 1500 point lists with more command points, but it's certainly something we'll see diminishing returns on. I really just want to set aside 3 command points for critical Canticle re-rolls, and have a few for critical save/charge re-rolls. 7 command points should be okay.

 

My decision making has been somewhat influenced by my collection of models. I'd probably rather have 60 conscripts and split them into 3 squads of 20, but I don't have 60 guardsmen. Their role is to be either a defense in depth against assault armies, or an obnoxious tarpit to throw against shooting armies. With orders you can advance them 14-24" on the first turn, while conga lineing back to the commissar (who is actually a Yarrick model, because Yarrick is turning himself into a machine). The commander is actually a Techmarine, so I kind of had to give him a bolt pistol and a power axe, as he's modeled that way. 

 

I'd also like to get another Lascannon Ironstrider, probably cutting some vanguard to make room for it. The idea is to be able to deny deepstrike in a huge area in my deployment zone by deploying the ironstriders on the flanks. Once my opponent commits to a deep strike location, the ironstriders can quickly collapse into the Cawl Bubble. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/xPH77a3.png

1500 Pt spearhead list											
	Name	        Number	p/Mdl	Gr pts	Total	W/Mdl	W TTL	Gear
	Cawl	        1	250	0	250	8	8				
	Vanguard 3 Sqds	13	10	10	140	1	13	Arc Maul + Power Sword		
	plasma Van	4	10	56	96	1	4	plasma caliver		
	Neutron Onager	2	90	122	302	11	22	Neutron laser + 2 heavy cognis stubbers		
	Icarus Onager	1	90	48	138	11	11	Icarus array + heavy cognis stubber		
	Las Strider 	1	50	45	95	6	6	Twin Lascannon		
	Phosphor Robots	2	65	90	220	6	12	3 heavy phosphor blasters		
	Datasmith	1	52	0	52	4	4	Gamma Pistol + Power Fist		
	
        Guard (3x10)	30	4	15	135	1	30	1 grenade launcher per squad		
	Commissar	1	30	1	31	3	3	Bolt Pistol		
	Commander	1	30	6	36	4	4	Bolt Pistol + Power Axe	
	
        TOTAL				        1495						
											
	Ad Mech Pts:	1293		Mech Wounds:	80		3+1+3=	7 command pts		
	Guard Pts:	202		Guard Wounds:	37						
											
	Vehicle Pts:	755		Vehicle Wounds:	51						
	Bubble Pts:	371		Bubble Wounds:	47						
	Character Pts:	339		Char Wounds:	19						

Edited July 1, 2017 by Steerpike_

[Tiger9gamer]

since we are all sharing lists, I too have a fun game tommorow, a Stronghold Assault mission

 

2,500pts

 

battalion Detachment:

Tech-Priest Dominus Anguis Diode (eradication beamer, macro-stubber)

Tech Priest (Volkite, Macro Stubber)

 

Datasmith

 

Kataphron Destroyers (plasma destroyers and phosphex)

5 Rangers (Arquebus)

10 Rangers (x3 Arc Rifle omni-spex)

10 Vanguard (x3 arc Rifles omni-spex)

10 vanguard (x3 Arc Rifles omni-spex)

5 skitarii Vanguard

 

1 Sydonian Dragon

 

2 Fist Burny Robots

Neutron Onager

Neutron Onager

 

Fortifications:

 

Aquila Strongpoint

Imperial Bastion

Imperial Bastion

 

Auxillary Detachment:

Baskilisk

 

-2,534pts 

 

So hopefully this will do well against whatever my opponent is bringing. it should be interesting, and above all fun! I always like special battles that are not a pain to set up, and my opponent will hopefully agree! 

[gilt_imp]

^That sounds like a good game coming up!

 

 

Hi, I had a game today and while I don’t have anything earth shattering to add to the new edition tactics etc, just wanted to share anyway.

 

It was to be a 100 Power level game and I was determined to field my Questoris Knights, which eat up a massive amount of my list so I tried to make it work and get those precious Command Points too. My force is supposed to represent a Knight World force so that’s why I went with some Ad-Mech and Astra Militarum too as the foot sloggers.

 

I had my first game of 8^th edition on the opening weekend with the store demo game and in that game my opponent used the new Primaris Marines and I used the Nurgle force. Ironically today my opponent was using a Chaos force mainly of Nurgle choices. So, I already knew they were very tough and resilient!

 

Ad-Mech Patrol Detachment (0 CP’s) {can use ‘Canticles of the Omnissiah’}

HQ:  Tech-Priest Dominus

Troops: Skitarii Rangers (2 Transuranic Arquebus & Omnispex)

Heavy Support: Onager Dunecrawler (Neutron laser)

Power rating: 17 

 

Super Heavy Detachment (3 CP’s)

Imperial Knight: Errant

Imperial Knight: Errant

Imperial Knight: Paladin (ended up swapping this for Knight Warden, +1 power rating)

Power rating: 70

 

Astra Militarum Battalion Detachment (3 CP’s)

HQ:  Company Commander

HQ:  Primaris Psyker

Troops: Infantry Squad

Troops: Infantry Squad

Troops: Infantry Squad

Power rating: 14

 

Total Army Power Level: 101 (102)

Total Army Command Points: 9

 

Tried so hard to meet the 100 Power Level and my initial concerns about being 1 power rating over disappeared when my opponent’s list was on 103 and he didn’t want to budge. I’m not the type to worry about a few points etc here or there but then I realised something, I had really wanted to use my Knight Warden which was only 1 power rating more than the Paladin, so I said ok hang on I’ll just swap this arm out, and my list now became Power Level 102 with a Knight Warden instead of the Paladin and done.

 

Opponents list had lots of Nurgle, that’s marines, terminators, pox-walkers a dread and some vehicles plus some other chaos units, I know one was berzerkers.

 

Expectations

If the Knights died I expected to lose convincingly as there would nothing stopping the squishy infantry being targeted. By playing the Knights aggressively they would be massive fire magnets.

The Guard Company Commander would just keep dishing out orders till he would die. Keep him and infantry squads in the backfield. March forward mid to late game, if any left, to claim objectives.

Didn’t think much would come from the Primaris Psyker. He got a couple psychic powers off though.

 

Overview

The Guard infantry held objectives when needed and that’s mainly why they were chosen, to make up for numbers the Knights lacked.

The Knights performed pretty good, only lost one completely. I liked the ability to walk out of fighting and fire at other units. Avoiding charges and infantry swarms worked by continually moving and re-directing when needed.

The Knight Errants thermal cannon was surprisingly useful against heavy infantry too but not enough to be its only purpose.

Rangers with TA didn’t do a huge amount but did waste a turn re-positioning, due to los being blocked.

Terrain is a useful ally, don’t be afraid to use it.

Re-rolls are so handy. Those Command Points are worth it.

Do what you have to do to prevent berzerkers reaching humble infantry.

 

Highlights

Knight Warden decimating pox-walkers with his avenger cannon.

Knight Errant throwing a dreadnought with his thunderstrike gauntlet into a predator. Boom boom!

Winning was not really expected but was a nice outcome!

 

Future

It was hard to cram what I wanted into the list but for a couple of turns I really wished I had an Aegis Defence Line to stick my infantry behind.

A Commissar would have helped with morale.

[Steerpike_]

Had a battle with my:

1500 Pt spearhead list											
	Name	        Number	p/Mdl	Gr pts	Total	W/Mdl	W TTL	Gear
	Cawl	        1	250	0	250	8	8				
	Vanguard 3 Sqds	13	10	10	140	1	13	Arc Maul + Power Sword		
	plasma Van	4	10	56	96	1	4	plasma caliver		
	Neutron Onager	2	90	122	302	11	22	Neutron laser + 2 heavy cognis stubbers		
	Icarus Onager	1	90	48	138	11	11	Icarus array + heavy cognis stubber		
	Las Strider 	1	50	45	95	6	6	Twin Lascannon		
	Phosphor Robots	2	65	90	220	6	12	3 heavy phosphor blasters		
	Datasmith	1	52	0	52	4	4	Gamma Pistol + Power Fist		
	
        Guard (3x10)	30	4	15	135	1	30	1 grenade launcher per squad		
	Commissar	1	30	1	31	3	3	Bolt Pistol		
	Commander	1	30	6	36	4	4	Bolt Pistol + Power Axe	
	
        TOTAL				        1495						
											
	Ad Mech Pts:	1293		Mech Wounds:	80		3+1+3=	7 command pts		
	Guard Pts:	202		Guard Wounds:	37						
											
	Vehicle Pts:	755		Vehicle Wounds:	51						
	Bubble Pts:	371		Bubble Wounds:	47						
	Character Pts:	339		Char Wounds:	19	

List against an alpha strike Necron list.

 

The first turn was pretty terrifying as I had a hard time deploying in a way that would deny alpha strike range, while also making the most of auras. I ended up underestimating how much penetration he could get on the first turn, resulting in:

A: A unit of guard wiped out turn 1.

B: The datasmith instakilled by some pseudo-psychic Star Shard crap on turn 1.

C: Some rude dudes (Lych Guard) charging into and killing my lord commissar and company commander on turn 1.

D: An even ruder dude having the ability to suppress Cawl's aura from turn 1.

E: An onager getting tied up in combat on the first turn.

 

All that said, it ended up not being THAT bad. The guard did what they were supposed to do and died to buy time. One onager had to retreat, but everyone could immediately start pouring fire into the T5, 3+ save rude dudes, which I just barely managed to wipe out in a single turn, thanks to the final wounds inflicted by Cawl in melee. (Unfortunately this means I wasn't able to scoot away from the "Counter tactics" ability, and Cawl's aura was gone until the game had been decided).

 

On turn 2. My opponent killed a big chunk of vanguard and a big chunk of guardsmen, but didn't have all of his units in the fight and the only major casualty I took was a Kastelan a shard had snuck around into. The problem though was that this killed the Kastelan in contact, and the other robot couldn't be consolidated into as some guardsmen lured the demigod away by being closer, the brave cusses. Cawl was still tied up with some rudelords, but just barely managed to survive (and get some dope self heals off)

 

In my second turn I took the re-roll 1s to hit during shooting canticle, and got off a massive volley of fire, killing 12 warriors (denying any re-animation protocol for the whole game) and messing up a C'tan. 

 

Cawl consumed most of my command points doing counter-charges and save re-rolls. He hovered near zero wounds for several fight phases. When the enemy charged his main battle barge into our machine prophet, one child blew on quantum refractor field determinizer to grant it the blessing of the Omnissiah. The Omnissiah was not pleased. But all was not lost. There was a second child. And his breath flowed not with the winds of chance, but the gears of mechanical determinism. The refractor field held firm and the master was saved. He lashed out and smashed his tormentor, freeing the word of Mars to be heard by all. 

 

And the Necrons were no more. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Steerpike_

[Tiger9gamer]

 

2,500pts

 

battalion Detachment:

Tech-Priest Dominus Anguis Diode (eradication beamer, macro-stubber)

Tech Priest (Volkite, Macro Stubber)

 

Datasmith

 

Kataphron Destroyers (plasma destroyers and phosphex)

5 Rangers (Arquebus)

10 Rangers (x3 Arc Rifle omni-spex)

10 Vanguard (x3 arc Rifles omni-spex)

10 vanguard (x3 Arc Rifles omni-spex)

5 skitarii Vanguard

 

1 Sydonian Dragon

 

2 Fist Burny Robots

Neutron Onager

Neutron Onager

 

Fortifications:

 

Aquila Strongpoint

Imperial Bastion

Imperial Bastion

 

Auxillary Detachment:

Baskilisk

 

-2,534pts 

So hopefully this will do well against whatever my opponent is bringing. it should be interesting, and above all fun! I always like special battles that are not a pain to set up, and my opponent will hopefully agree! 

@Glit-imp: it was fun, but my opponent brought a traitor warhound titan... and I still had a blast! It was fun trying to fight that beast as everything blew up, and I managed to get it down to 5 wounds left at the end of turn 5!

 

Some notes on the strongpoint... yea it's crap. The main gun's strength and damage is basically just a neutron laser, and it has such a bad BS that it's not even worth taking. It was fun to bring it, but for the future I think a void Silo would have been more fun (or at least different from my other artillery)

 

the bastions were fun only because of the heavy bolters they put out, and everything else performed rather well in my opinion. the game was one sided but very fun, and next time I hope to bring something better against a titan!

[Charlo]

First official 8th ed FAQ is here!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

 

Good news:

Onager rules confirmed as 5 wounds being the threshold for any degredation in stats.

 

Had news:

All Sicarian lost an attack on their profile...

[MagicHat]

No, only the Sicarian Infiltrator and the Sicarian Princeps, which... Does not exist. I awill assume that they mean the Infiltrator Princeps though, and Sicarian Ruststalkers are safe.

[Feral_80]

Eh not so good news (it was pretty obvious already), but the bad one is quite bad really. Pity! Infiltrators (that's the meaning of the fix I presume) are still playable however, I believe, and Rustalker have something more on their own. Edited July 2, 2017 by Feral_80

[Baluc]

On the bright side you can take units of less than min size... as odd ss that sounds.

[Teun135]

Taking units of less than min size is not real useful to us... all of our single models are fairly expensive as it is, so you don't want to be paying full price for models you don't put on the table. Maybe if you really want to stretch out some Vanguard or something, but still only marginally useful.

[Baluc]

Single fistallen seem solid and 1-3 man infiltrators for maelstorm missions as they can fit into less space. A good way to quickly proq d3 multipliers on objectives.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Less-than-minimum squads makes sense for bipedal Servitors - you can just take the two with the guns, and you weren't going to take more than one unit anyway...

Edited July 2, 2017 by KhorneHunter57x

[Steerpike_]

Less-than-minimum squads makes sense for bipedal Servitors - you can just take the two with the guns, and you weren't going to take more than one unit anyway...

 

Squishy infantry with special weapons are only as durable as their meatshield. So that's still a pass. 

[Teun135]

I don't think some people realize you still have to pay full points for the squad... you have to pay for the models you are missing as well. It's not like you can just take a single Kastellan robot and only pay for the one model, you have to pay for both even if you don't have the second one. There is literally no reason to ever do that, unless you just physically don't have the second model. Why pay points for a model you can't put on the board? No reason for that, ever.

[Silentz]

"If you are using points, you only pay the points for the models you actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear they are equipped with)."

[Thorakitai]

That's a pretty harsh nerf to infiltrators, their damage to most things was already pretty pitiful. I suspect this was really meant to push rustalkers, but those are still terrible. Still, I at least was only taking infiltrators to be a distraction, with anything killed being a bonus, so I guess that hasn't changed. I just wonder who at GW loathes sicarians so much... Edited July 2, 2017 by Thorakitai

[KhorneHunter57x]

 

Less-than-minimum squads makes sense for bipedal Servitors - you can just take the two with the guns, and you weren't going to take more than one unit anyway...

 

Squishy infantry with special weapons are only as durable as their meatshield. So that's still a pass.

 

It's a small amount of points for a couple Heavy Bolter servitors - true, they'll die to a stiff breeze, but if your opponent is shooting them, then those are guns not pointed at your other stuff. Cheap enough to be expendable, shooty enough to be annoying.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I dont think this was necessary, but I still like the the Infiltrators. 25 shots that can show up behind enemy lines is still good, especially in a slow moving army like Ad Mech.

 

imho all CC we use are Infiltrators to show up where needed and Fulgurites to counter charge, maybe Kastellans with fists to fight bigger stuff, but I still need to test them.

[munocat]

I am dropping the infiltrators from my list after the extra nerf, they got nerfed bad with 8th, and now loosing all those attacks. I will take another dunecrawler instead.

[elbianc]

That infiltrators nerf hurts... Now we are left with the fulgurites and no way to deliver them... Maybe a cc assassin will do the work

[lancerusso]

I am dropping the infiltrators from my list after the extra nerf, they got nerfed bad with 8th, and now loosing all those attacks. I will take another dunecrawler instead.

This. I've resigned myself to a shooty list. Brigade with Cawl and a five onagers, two sniper rangers and four vanguard plas or arc. Three datasmiths for forced elites choice and some autocannon striders.