I just do not understand....

[Kizzdougs]

First of all let me say that I'm very happy for everybody that is enjoying the Primaris Marines and is looking forward to adding them to their existing collections or starting a new, purely Primaris force. From what I've seen on fb and the forums it seems that the new releases have got a lot of people really excited and motivated, which is fantastic. However, I'm personally not a fan of their fluff, and fluff is very important to me.

I'd prefer if the Primaris Marines didn't even exist from a fluff perspective. I'd be over the moon if GW made a range of marines in the same scale as the Primaris, but didn't force them into the fluff.

Why does the option for Primaris to be used in non-Ultra chapters bother you? I'm curious as to the reason why you'd want to see Robby's team get yet more goodies at the expense of the rest of the Astartes lines.

I mean, Ishagu's obsession I understand; he's a shrieking Ultra fanboy who wants them to be the best of the best of the best, with honors, sir.

But what's your reason?

(I use the "shrieking fanboy" label with all the fraternal respect and affection possible- I'm the same way about Wolves and DA... )

I don't collect Ultramarine, but from a fluff perspective I would prefer if the Primaris Marines were limited to the Ultramarines, their successors, and newly formed Primaris Chapters using Guilliman's gene-seed. They were Guilliman's project and the Ultramarines have the most pure gene-seed available. Handing them out to every Chapter, including Chapters with defective gene-seed (Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists etc.) cheapens their impact and feels a bit too contrived to me. But then everyone else would complain that the Ultramarines get all of the love...

Of course I'm fully aware that GW is a business and that they answer to their shareholders first and foremost, but the fluff just feels very forced. Sometimes models are made to fit the established fluff, and sometimes fluff is written to fit new models. I feel that writing fluff to shoehorn in new minis can often lead to 'weaker' fluff. A case of the 'tail wagging the dog'.

The most important factor behind the creation of the Primaris Marines is profit. It feels like the fluff was written as an afterthought. GW is more interested in making sure that every Space Marine player buys their new range of minis than they are in telling a good story.

So, that's just my personal, completely unqualified opinion and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me. Like I said, I'm very happy for everyone that loves the Primaris Marines :)

I'll probably end up buying some Primaris Marines (most likely to use for true-scaling) at some stage, but I don't have any immediate plans.

[SickSix]

As I wanted to say in the other thread, before it got locked: "in the long run, we are all dead".

 

I mean, I can understand why people might be worried that this is the start of a "soft squatting" of regular marines - I think the timeframe someone mentioned elsewhere was ten years. I get that and who knows? It might even be true. I really don't feel confident to say where this hoby will be in ten years.

 

However, ten years is a LOT of time, both in real life and within the hobby.

The last ten years have seen several editions come and go, at least one setting be completely replaced, several games fall by the wayside or (re)appear, the rise and fall of Finecast, the rise and rise of CAD-sculpting, entire model ranges getting redone and so on and so forth. I'm sure that most people currently in the hobby haven't even been around in the hobby for ten years, just as many have probably left it due to burn out, real life (or death) and so on.

 

Who knows, in ten years we actually MIGHT all be dead or, even worse, GW might not exist anymore and the game we all know and love will be but a dim memory, only kept alive by people wearing leopard skins and shuffling strange lumps of plastic around in their dingy caves.

I don't think that should keep us from enjoying the hobby in the here and now.

 

What I'm trying to say is, if your only gripe with the Primaries is that you're worried about the future of the game several years down the line, I think that's a bit counterproductive to your hobby enjoyment. Now, I'm not saying we should all get "carpe diem" tattoos and make YOLO the battle cry of all our armies, but I think that lots and lots of stuff will happen in the next ten years, both in this hobby and in life in general.

 

As for the Primaris, I personally love the models, but I think I'd have preferred it if they were an actual rescale so you could mix and match armour marks etc. (although I could see a lot of people, perhaps myself included, getting a bit miffed about that too).

 

I don't know who started the 10 years thing but I label that expectation 'unrealistically optimistic'. GW is not going to keep producing and updating regular marines for 10 more years. 8th edition will surely be the last edition the models are sold. GW has accelerated their release schedule by factors since 6th edition. They aren't suddenly going to slow down. We should have a complete Primaris line of minis in the next 1-2 years. After that, it's only a matter of time before they stop selling regular marines. Sure, they will throw us a bone with free rules PDFs for regular marines for a long while, but the models are now on life support.

 

Again, the new starter set is exclusively Primaris Marines. They are wanting new players to play with these new models exclusively. They didn't include regular marines for a reason. Sure, sure, our armies are still valid.... just like.... Sisters of Battle are still valid.

 

But that's Okay. I know FW is smart enough to catch all the Marine players that will be left behind. I fully expect a Scouring book from them as soon as they wrap up HH. My Silver Skulls have now just turned into a 31/32k army instead of a 41k army.

[Claws and Effect]

I'll be playing regular Marines for the foreseeable future.

 

Mostly because I already spent my hobby budget for the year.

 

It's an expensive hobby, and not everyone has hundreds of dollars laying about they can spend on a whim.

[utilityzero]

Yeah. I don't get how people believe old marines aren't getting run out of the game. I just don't. I am going to try not to be insulting about it but I really just can't believe that anyone doesn't see it.

 

They are dead. I will not be surprised if the new codexes include old characters being upgraded to Primaris status in this edition and the entirety of the line being replaced by the next edition. The BA rules leaks also lead me to believe that the 'unique' chapters are being rolled in completely and we will see a drastic reshaping of how they do marines in the future to make the product line more manageable and profitable. Maybe upgrade kits like the stormcast ones?

 

But they are going away. Not in 10 years either. I'd expect it in like half that, maybe less. Maybe some of the flavor of the old unique chapters will get ported over but it is also possible they will be about as differentiated as the chambers of the stormcast, ie not a whole lot. All the factions in AoS seem to be getting "chapter tactics" in some form and I wouldn't be surprised if 8th is like that. Choosing a dynasty for Necrons, a Sept for Tau, a specific Craftworld or Tribe and having a slight rules or organizational impact on your army.

 

As a BA collector I'm extremely worried that not only is my army getting folded in to the normal codex and losing most of its flavor, all of my current models will need to be replaced in the next 5 years. So what has taken me more than a decade to collect and paint is worthless and needs replaced in half the time.

 

I liked a lot of the rules leaks and reveals and was set to give 40k a chance after dropping it all through 7th, but not if it means basically starting a new hobby.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Yeah. I don't get how people believe old marines aren't getting run out of the game. I just don't. I am going to try not to be insulting about it but I really just can't believe that anyone doesn't see it.

 

They are dead. I will not be surprised if the new codexes include old characters being upgraded to Primaris status in this edition and the entirety of the line being replaced by the next edition. The BA rules leaks also lead me to believe that the 'unique' chapters are being rolled in completely and we will see a drastic reshaping of how they do marines in the future to make the product line more manageable and profitable. Maybe upgrade kits like the stormcast ones?

 

But they are going away. Not in 10 years either. I'd expect it in like half that, maybe less. Maybe some of the flavor of the old unique chapters will get ported over but it is also possible they will be about as differentiated as the chambers of the stormcast, ie not a whole lot. All the factions in AoS seem to be getting "chapter tactics" in some form and I wouldn't be surprised if 8th is like that. Choosing a dynasty for Necrons, a Sept for Tau, a specific Craftworld or Tribe and having a slight rules or organizational impact on your army.

 

As a BA collector I'm extremely worried that not only is my army getting folded in to the normal codex and losing most of its flavor, all of my current models will need to be replaced in the next 5 years. So what has taken me more than a decade to collect and paint is worthless and needs replaced in half the time.

 

I liked a lot of the rules leaks and reveals and was set to give 40k a chance after dropping it all through 7th, but not if it means basically starting a new hobby.

 

I'm really not trying to start an argument but let me get this straight. For you of the opinion that "old marines" are "out of the game" have you consider what exactly that would entail?

 

GW has already confirmed for 8th edition that Primaris marines cannot utilize any of the standard Space Marines wargear or vehicles. That would mean GW would have to replace 99% of the entire Space Marine line (excepting all the new Primaris stuff). Can you imagine how much money in development that would cost GW to do that; not to mention the money lost on some of their more recent models/molds? 

 

No, standard Space Marines are not going anywhere.. and if they do it definitely is going to take a while. We can all definitely be more sober minded about this than what we currently are being. 

 

The only people I feel really have an argument are those that are frustrated with the fluff. I can level with you. It's all of our hobby and I can definitely see the fluff problems. 

[SickSix]

Have you considered that the new box set contains ZERO regular marines? And that to field an all Primaris army (which its clear that GW wants you too) you cant use existing vehicles. Which means they are already planning a full line of vehicles for Primaris. So they have already spent most of this prohibitive development money you are referring to.

 

Maybe it wont be as fast as some of us think, but its going to happen. The foundation has been laid. As soon as they said regular marines could be upgraded I knew it was over for normal astartes.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Have you considered that the new box set contains ZERO regular marines? And that to field an all Primaris army (which its clear that GW wants you too) you cant use existing vehicles. Which means they are already planning a full line of vehicles for Primaris. So they have already spent most of this prohibitive development money you are referring to.

 

Maybe it wont be as fast as some of us think, but its going to happen. The foundation has been laid. As soon as they said regular marines could be upgraded I knew it was over for normal astartes.

 

Are we being serious? 

 

How many times has a new edition boxset, set the tone for an entire line of models? Where is the plastic CSM chosen box set we have been waiting for? No, it's just a new boxset containing models (the newest models) for the theme of the new edition. It's DG vs Primaris UM.. done. There is no more reason to read it other than you want to speculate and add to hysteria.

 

Has anyone considered what it would mean for every SM would be gone with the exception of the newest Primaris Marines? It's absolutely ridiculous. 

[Gothical]

Have you considered that the new box set contains ZERO regular marines? And that to field an all Primaris army (which its clear that GW wants you too) you cant use existing vehicles. Which means they are already planning a full line of vehicles for Primaris. So they have already spent most of this prohibitive development money you are referring to.

 

Maybe it wont be as fast as some of us think, but its going to happen. The foundation has been laid. As soon as they said regular marines could be upgraded I knew it was over for normal astartes.

 

My local store manager pointed out that no-where in any of the briefing, training or sales literature is Dark Imperium referred to as a "Starter Box", unlike Dark Vengeance, Age of Sigmar, etc. I believe either Hastings or Atia also said that something to the effect of "there may be another box down the line" in the comments in one of the many 8th Ed threads on that blog. Thus it is possible, nay, even likely, that we will see a "starter set" with mini-rulebook, regular Marines and so on a short way down the line.

[SickSix]

Look I will be happy to be proven wrong. But I see all signs pointing to a phase out.

[Galron]

As a Red Scorpions player and that being a chapter that scorns something as impure as new genetic material I can fluffily say no thanks. I do however think the models aside from the silly assault marines are pretty ballin' and would make awesome truescale regular marines and I might use them so in the future. After thinking about the fluff behind them and deciding Ol' Cullin would say "No, send me more tanks, keep your genetic heresy freak show to yourself." when budget time comes up and realizing not only do I have about 200 marines painted up for the HH and another 70-80 for the Red Scorps, I really don't need Primaris marines in my life or tying up space. Yay practicality. On the bright side I can see a lot of marine armies hitting ebay and BT driving down the used price.

[Captain_Krash]

Regarding oldmarines/numarines. Would it really be that bad if they coexisted in the same universe? Especially for profits? You'd think GW would want this type of approach. Looking at it from a business stand point. Why drop a line if it sells so well?

 

Additionally I don't understand why people are getting mad over "My opinion is more valid than your opinion even though I have no basis to form said opinion just speculation" there is no writing on the wall, in fact GW hasn't once said that they are phasing out old kits. And they shouldn't as they would have to basically either re write the fluff of the past 10,000 years or come up with yet another Horus Heresy style rules set so you can recreate battles of past.

 

So in my opinion I don't see them phasing out the old line. I see the two lines existing to maximize GWs profits and customer appeal and to continue the story of the numarines being a tiny elite army, and the oldmarines continuing to be a small elite army. They can co exist in the same universe just fine and every 40k space marine player should want it to be this way to keep the hobby healthy and happy.

 

Krash

[Leif Bearclaw]

Regarding oldmarines/numarines. Would it really be that bad if they coexisted in the same universe? Especially for profits? You'd think GW would want this type of approach. Looking at it from a business stand point. Why drop a line if it sells so well?

 

Additionally I don't understand why people are getting mad over "My opinion is more valid than your opinion even though I have no basis to form said opinion just speculation" there is no writing on the wall, in fact GW hasn't once said that they are phasing out old kits. And they shouldn't as they would have to basically either re write the fluff of the past 10,000 years or come up with yet another Horus Heresy style rules set so you can recreate battles of past.

 

So in my opinion I don't see them phasing out the old line. I see the two lines existing to maximize GWs profits and customer appeal and to continue the story of the numarines being a tiny elite army, and the oldmarines continuing to be a small elite army. They can co exist in the same universe just fine and every 40k space marine player should want it to be this way to keep the hobby healthy and happy.

 

Krash

Thing is though, there won't be 2 fully independent demands for old and nuMarines (the same is kinda true for most 40k ranges, but 2 competing Imperial Marine ranges would have a more pronounced effect imo). Demand for the Primaris isn't coming from nowhere, a lot of existing players are hyped for them, but that attention will inevitably come at the cost of some other hobby aspect.

 

Thanks to hobby budgets, just because twice the shiny thing exist, doesn't mean that people will spend twice as much. So there's the potential for releases to become cannibalistic, if the customer's money is being spent on Primaris kits, they're not spending it/as much on regular Marines (or vice versa).

 

Then there's the new customers to consider. While of course this principal isn't universal, a lot of new blood currently starts with Marines. However, Dark Imperium suggests that the new focus and 'shiny cool thing for the new people' will be the Primaris. So again, that's a new demand and revenue stream being directed towards Primaris at the expense of old Marines.

 

Marines sell well now. Will they still sell as well in a year's time, when the new Shiny Primaris dudes have an entire range, and the lion's share of the hype? What's the point at which GW will take note of falling Marine sales and cut/reduce the range? We just don't know, and therein lies the concern and worry. However, I remain highly sceptical that 2 competing Marine scales will serve to maximise GW profits in the long run.

[Zebulon]

 

 

(BTW - what is the plural of Primaris? A-D-B?)

 

Primaris is already plural. Primari would be singular.

I had anticipated it goes like canis.

 

Hence primaris > primares

 

You're welcome...

[Wargamer]

Primares eunt domus!

[Olis]

 

 

(BTW - what is the plural of Primaris? A-D-B?)

Primaris is already plural. Primari would be singular.

I had anticipated it goes like canis.

 

Hence primaris > primares

 

You're welcome...

 

I figured it was singular and plural. 

[Zebulon]

Primares eunt domus!

*salutes*

 

You sir are a gentleman

[Claws and Effect]

Yes, I'm quite sure that Games Workshop has plans to stop making the model kits that cost them (at this point) pennies to produce, that sell for $40.

 

We might see some of the older kits disappear eventually, but there is zero reason to discontinue the most recently released kits. The cost to make them is negligible since they've long since recouped the development costs of them. People clearly still want them.

 

The only reason I can see to discontinue the existing Space Marine kits is if GW wanted to issue the ultimatum of "Replace your entire collection or stop giving us money."

 

And it doesn't take a business degree to realize how dumb it would be to issue that ultimatum. That would be a HUGE gamble. Do you think GWs shareholders would appreciate them taking the risk of losing that much revenue because they alienated a good chunk of the customers that got them where they are?

 

If they DO decide to scrap old marines and go Primaris only, jobs will be lost if it blows up in their faces. Guaranteed.

[Irbis]

Have you considered that the new box set contains ZERO regular marines?

Gee, so did 7th edition starter.

And 6th edition one before it.

Three editions later and somehow Codex:Regular Marines wasn't replaced by Codex:DA. What gives?

Maybe upgrade kits like the stormcast ones?

You're only what, two years late to the party?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ultramarines-Upgrades

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Wolves-Upgrades

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Deathwatch-Upgrade-Pack

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Dark-Angels-Upgrades

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Upgrades

Seeing these consist of heads, pads, and backpack top decorations, all of which were confirmed to be the same size in Primaris kit, SM were squatted in 2015!!1!!one!1!!

Or, given these existed even earlier:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Crimson-Fists-Command-Squad-Upgrade-Pack

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Black-Templars-Chapter-Upgrade

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Crimson-Fists-Tactical-Squad-Upgrade-Pack

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Iron-Hands-Tactical-Squad-Upgrade-Pack

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marines-Iron-Warriors-Upgrade-Pack

and are still Primaris compatible, SM were obsolete and dead since 2005! See, I can make extremely unfounded hyperbolic statements too!

[RandomMarine]

Haven't the Facebook team said that old Marines will get new models in future.

 

Personally I don't think old marines are going anywhere that's not based on anything other the the HH mk 3/4 plastics being designed to be 40k compatible builds but the old ugly sculpts will probably disappear off the store shelves and go web only.

[Robbienw]

I believe they did, can't find the quote though. Forgeworld also have a few upcoming 40k releases including the Gabriel Angelos model and the red scorpions stuff for fires of cyraxeus.

[deathspectersgt7]

Yup unless they delay it again . Then again it one off resin pieces and a book by fw that has been in the works for awhile . 

[Robbienw]

Still new 40k space marine releases ;)

[deathspectersgt7]

. Technically you are correct but I 'am going by the Q&A seminar during the Warhammer weekend by GW studio proper not FW . Primaris things will be the main focus and there may be some TruMarine Releases in the future .

[Sugarlessllama]

Personally I am looking forward to adding Primaris Marines to my collection. I think they are going to afford some interesting hobby opportunities, and it will give me something different to work on.

[deathspectersgt7]

I will do some of the Tactical versions and a couple Lts as Omega Marines ordered the Decals for them.