Changes to Space Marine Chapter Organisation

[Robbienw]

This was in one of the pages of the Dark Angels rules from the recent leaks.

 

"Eager not to draw attention, the Dark Angels follow the guidelines of the Codex Astartes, and yet they have petitioned to maintain their two unique fighting companies – the highly mobile 2nd Company (known as the Ravenwing) and the terminator armoured squads of the 1st Company (known as the Deathwing). Given the desperate circumstances of the torn and benighted galaxy, as well as the aforementioned companies’ service records of excellence, the returned Primarch Roboute Guilliman granted such rights even as the Dark Angels and their successor Chapters began reorganizing themselves to fit the dictates of the Ultima Founding"

 

I wonder what this means for Chapter organisation in the fluff in the new edition in the post-gathering storm era.

 

Obviously part of it will be adding in the Primaris Marines. But I wonder if it will affect other aspects of Chapter organisation? Such as the mix of squad types and number of Marines per company, and number per Chapter.

 

Very interesting!

[lokkorex]

Great.

So the dark angels legion just bends the knee to lord smurf?

Just great.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Great.

So the dark angels legion just bends the knee to lord smurf?

Just great.

 

Because:

 

"Eager not to draw attention, the Dark Angels follow the guidelines of the Codex Astartes

 

What Lord Guilliman doesn't know, doesn't hurt him. In the meantime the DA Legion I mean, the Unforgiven Chapters reinforce themselves with the new technologies.

I think discretion is the better part of valour and it's better to fly under the radar and bend some knee than to atract unwanted atention of a Primarch that pretty much is has the power to create and destroy...

[Dragonlover]

Bend the knee? That reads more like 'Right, he's let us keep the unique stuff without a fuss. Pay lip service to the reorganisation so nobody looks too closely at us'.

 

Dragonlover

[Guest]

Bend the knee? That reads more like 'Right, he's let us keep the unique stuff without a fuss. Pay lip service to the reorganisation so nobody looks too closely at us'.

Dragonlover

But drama... Need to hate Guilliman... :)

[lokkorex]

 

Bend the knee? That reads more like 'Right, he's let us keep the unique stuff without a fuss. Pay lip service to the reorganisation so nobody looks too closely at us'.

Dragonlover

 

 

But drama... Need to hate Guilliman... :) ;) :rolleyes:

Exactly! ;)

[Marshal Rohr]

Guilliman, greatest organizational mind in the entire History of mankind, is ok with an entire company of super expensive to make super soldiers riding the most inefficient form of combat vehicle ever.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I don't know what vehicle you are refering to, but maybe the Imperium doesn't have a better one? Or maybe said vehicle is soo widespread it's hard to replace on so short notice? Or maybe GW sells those vehicles well enough to not obliterate it and get a new one from scratch?

[Marshal Rohr]

I don't know what vehicle you are refering to, but maybe the Imperium doesn't have a better one? Or maybe said vehicle is soo widespread it's hard to replace on so short notice? Or maybe GW sells those vehicles well enough to not obliterate it and get a new one from scratch?

A bike. Jet bikes are like small attack helicopters, such as a little bird or something. Ground based bikes are specifically for reconaissance. Even then you dismount and proceed on foot near the target. You don't ride bikes at an enemy like cavalry.

[Guest]

 

I don't know what vehicle you are refering to, but maybe the Imperium doesn't have a better one? Or maybe said vehicle is soo widespread it's hard to replace on so short notice? Or maybe GW sells those vehicles well enough to not obliterate it and get a new one from scratch?

A bike. Jet bikes are like small attack helicopters, such as a little bird or something. Ground based bikes are specifically for reconaissance. Even then you dismount and proceed on foot near the target. You don't ride bikes at an enemy like cavalry.

 

 

Are you using real world comparisons for a fictional game? 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

For many Reasons I can't see Guilliman outlawing bikes and removing them from Chapter organization for being inneficient. ;)

I think the most proeminent reason is that 40K is not a game based on modern warfare where bikes have no place but based on medieval warfare where charging into combat on top of horses made sense. I could also say that making SM even bigger only makes them bigger targets for no actual game.... If Guilliman was smart he would create SM same size as a normal human, athletic with high endurance, high marksmanship and highly ineligent to execute all kinds of tactics/strategies and invest on personal protection,drones and guided weapons.. see where I'm getting at?

 

In any case, let's divert the conversation more to the changes that are happening and not to those that should happe.

[A D-B]

Lying to Guilliman about the Codex Astartes would be so much fun....

 

 

 

"Helbrecht... What's that behind your back?"

 

"...nothing."

 

"It looks like the codes for several fleet musters to me. Like, a lot of ships. Almost a Legion's worth of ships with the Imperial Fists' serial numbers filed off and the hulls painted blackish and templarish."

 

"No, it's not that, I promise."

 

"The Codex Astartes is serious business, boy. The Imperium almost had a civil war over it. It's not like it's easy to defy it, you know. Me and Dorn were about to drag the Imperium into another Horus Heresy over its implementation until he relented and got most of his Legion killed in a huff. So what's that behind your back?"

 

"Nothing, Uncle Guilliman. Say, what's that behind your back?"

 

"...uh, a life support system that may or may not work in conjunction with the evil alien magic that let me be reborn. But that's not important right now."

 

"Seems pretty important to me. Maybe me and my 'just one thousand Marines, honest' might, y'know, spread the word about this..."

 

"Um. ANYWAY, off you go, have fun crusading, Helbrecht."

 

"Yeah. That's what I figured, punk."

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

I don't know what vehicle you are refering to, but maybe the Imperium doesn't have a better one? Or maybe said vehicle is soo widespread it's hard to replace on so short notice? Or maybe GW sells those vehicles well enough to not obliterate it and get a new one from scratch?

A bike. Jet bikes are like small attack helicopters, such as a little bird or something. Ground based bikes are specifically for reconaissance. Even then you dismount and proceed on foot near the target. You don't ride bikes at an enemy like cavalry.

Are you using real world comparisons for a fictional game?

 

[Jackalwolf]

 

 

 

I don't know what vehicle you are refering to, but maybe the Imperium doesn't have a better one? Or maybe said vehicle is soo widespread it's hard to replace on so short notice? Or maybe GW sells those vehicles well enough to not obliterate it and get a new one from scratch?

A bike. Jet bikes are like small attack helicopters, such as a little bird or something. Ground based bikes are specifically for reconaissance. Even then you dismount and proceed on foot near the target. You don't ride bikes at an enemy like cavalry.

Are you using real world comparisons for a fictional game?

 

 

 

See that's where you go wrong. I exclusively compare any fictional elements with my imaginary cross over of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and the Star Trek Klingon faction rites and traditions.

 

Comparing a book to the logical framework of it's intended readership seems pretty dumb to me.

[Kelborn]

Well done, A D-B! :D

 

Reminds me of a track from the latest Tenacious D album. It's a scene between Kyle and Jack, accidentally meeting in the recording studio at midnight. One's hiding a trombone, the other a flute behind their backs. They start accusing each other, leading to a brawl. ^^

[Sete]

I have been thinking about this tbh.

 

Since DA will keep their thing rolling, I hope the other chapters will aswell.

 

This leaked fluff eased my concerns a bit.

 

We still don't give a :cuss about the codex and have thousands of Warriors per crusade fleet.

 

Now I just need Primaris Neophyte, Primaris Initiates, and Primaris Sword Bros.

 

Give the EC, Grimmy and Helbrecth some of that Primaris roid juice and let slip the dogs of war.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

"Guilliman is coming - LOOK BUSY!"

 

The new warcry of every single non codex-compliant Chapter

[SillyDreadnought]

Wouldn't Gulliman have already known of the Dark Angels current chapter organisation, as he was Lord Commander during the Scouring and oversaw the implementation of the Codex on every loyalist Legion?

[Race Bannon]

Did A-D-B also reference from the movie Airplane?!

 

Also, stay civil in these parts; use your honor to post ideas and replies..

[KiltedMarine]

"Guilliman is coming - LOOK BUSY!"

The new warcry of every single non codex-compliant Chapter

I'm so adding this to my .sig, with your permission. +1 Successor Chapter for you, sir.

[Scribe]

Lying to Guilliman about the Codex Astartes would be so much fun....

 

 

 

"Helbrecht... What's that behind your back?"

 

"...nothing."

 

"It looks like the codes for several fleet musters to me. Like, a lot of ships. Almost a Legion's worth of ships with the Imperial Fists' serial numbers filed off and the hulls painted blackish and templarish."

 

"No, it's not that, I promise."

 

"The Codex Astartes is serious business, boy. The Imperium almost had a civil war over it. It's not like it's easy to defy it, you know. Me and Dorn were about to drag the Imperium into another Horus Heresy over its implementation until he relented and got most of his Legion killed in a huff. So what's that behind your back?"

 

"Nothing, Uncle Guilliman. Say, what's that behind your back?"

 

"...uh, a life support system that may or may not work in conjunction with the evil alien magic that let me be reborn. But that's not important right now."

 

"Seems pretty important to me. Maybe me and my 'just one thousand Marines, honest' might, y'know, spread the word about this..."

 

"Um. ANYWAY, off you go, have fun crusading, Helbrecht."

 

"Yeah. That's what I figured, punk."

Please make this canon, in the way only you can.

 

I quite literally need a canonical basis for loyal marines to disobey and ignore if not outright deny openly, Rob's leadership.

 

Please.

[Grimtooth]

RG and Cawl have created these UM cookie cutter Primaris Marines with their little 5 and 3 man sized units, painted them up in chapter specific colors and forced them onto said chapters and basically ordered their implementation. So no matter how unique chapters might have been organizationally or flavorful before, they all have RG generic Primaris Units in them.

 

Hopefully the Wolves are like, "Yea we don't really have any room in the Fang to actually house you so you are going to have to make due with this tent out on the ice plains of Fenris. Kkthxbyebye!"

[Arkangilos]

Or maybe they will take on the traditions of the space Wolves, you know?

[Kelborn]

RG and Cawl have created these UM cookie cutter Primaris Marines with their little 5 and 3 man sized units, painted them up in chapter specific colors and forced them onto said chapters and basically ordered their implementation. So no matter how unique chapters might have been organizationally or flavorful before, they all have RG generic Primaris Units in them.

 

Hopefully the Wolves are like, "Yea we don't really have any room in the Fang to actually house you so you are going to have to make due with this tent out on the ice plains of Fenris. Kkthxbyebye!"

 

Actually for my idea of an Primaris - Space Wolves successor, I thought that the Wolves would allocate a handful of specialists and veterans to train and raise them in Russ' image. In my head canon, the Primaris are just "born", without any character traits or culture. Like the clone troopers of Episode 2.

 

While working with the veteran Wolves, they get to know of their legacy and heritage. Furthermore, they are encouraged to engage the culture of their new homeworld and how to deal with the beast within themselves.

 

My goal is to create a mixture of both, a newly risen Primaris chapter, raised as sons of Russ and having their own culture, which partly resembles the Vlka.

 

Think that this should be a good compromise. :)

[Grimtooth]

An essential part of the Wolves is the Fenrisian culture in which they are recruited. Russ adopted full recruitment from Fenris and Fenris alone once united with his Legion of Terran born Wolves and essentially let attrition ultimately reduce the Terran SW to zero.

 

Note that this has nothing to do with the supposed genetic compatibility of Russ' geneseed with Fenrisians, JUST the cultural aspect.

 

So we have Primaris "Wolves" that have never experienced life as a mortal on the deathworld of Fenris and RG is expecting the Wolves to just up and accept them. Yes it happened with the Terran Wolves during the Heresy but that was under the tutelage of Russ AND the Terran Wolves adopted the fighting style of the Russ had established with his Fenrisian kin. They didn't come in and force and the introduction of Primaris organization or Tactica.

 

Even if we look at the supposed "upgrade" of existing Wolves to Primaris, then we are expecting veteran Wolves who have fought like Russ intended for their entire lifetime as a SW to just suddenly embrace being a Primaris Marine in a 5 man squad, with only a bolt rifle and bolt pistol?

 

So the future of all non-codex compliant chapters will now have generic Primaris "codex" compliant units in them. The only difference will be what individual chapter keyword rules the Primaris will have. RG basically gets the last laugh in pushing his new codex Primaris Marines on all chapters in the exact Squad size, equipment, and tactics they will employ by his design.