New Rough Riders

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I love Rough Riders so much, that I figured I'd just start a dedicated thread for my initial review of their newest incarnation and to discuss how they might be used in the new edition. Here's a summary of what they bring to the table, assuming I've read everything correctly:

 

• WS/BS 4+ - same as before
• Movement 10" -- slightly less than before
• 2 Wounds  -- double what we had
• Hunting Lance is now Str +2, AP -2, D3 damage; can be used every time you charge -- better
• They also have a laspistol and a chainsword -- chainswords actually do something now, so bonus
• Their horses get an attack now at basic Guard stats -- an extra attack is an extra attack
• They can outflank and don't forget you can charge when you arrive from reserves -- improvement
• 8 points each + 2 for the Hunting Lance = 10 - 1 point cheaper than before

 

DURABILITY: They're (slightly) cheaper and they're twice as durable. Wounds-wise you are basically getting 2 rough riders for the price of one since previously to last as long under fire you would need double the horsemen. Granted, they were real glass hammers before so that may not be saying much, but the ability to outflank and charge from outflanking gives an added boost to their odds of surviving long enough to charge. And being cheaper doesn't hurt your ability to bring yet more. I can speak form experience using 2 Wound Death Riders that the extra wound is nothing to sneeze at.

 

ON THE CHARGE, they are possibly not quite as potent as before BUT, their lances are not all-or-nothing anymore. They were useless against terminators in 7th edition (aside from the strength boost) whereas now they are at least reducing them to the 3++ omnipresent storm shields (or who knows people might start taking tactical termies again???) versus rolling against 2+. D3 Damage and the new wound table makes charging vehicles feel like much less of a waste than it was in 7th. Everyone lost their +1 attack on the charge, and we get horse hooves instead of hammer of wrath so on the whole they are dealing about as much damage as before (relatively speaking) and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

IN THE SECOND ROUND OF COMBAT, assuming your enemy doesn't flee (opening the possibility of another lance charge), our Rough Riders now have 4 attacks (pistol in shooting phase + 1A + chainsword bonus + plus horse hooves). Granted that's all at 4+/Str 3 but it beats the pants off of the impotent 1A we had in 7th after the initial charge. And Rough Riders are no longer "one and done" with their lances which has got to be an improvement although I'll admit I've never had them live long enough to use their lances a second time previously.

 

BATTLESHOCK is an area where they may suffer somewhat since, if outflanking, they may be well away from any commissars. Using them as counter-assault/linebacker units that operate near your main lines to benefit from commissars and priests (priests will give a real boost on the charge). NB that the "Flanking Manouvres" allows you to choose any board edge to arrive from so you can choose your own edge at need.

 

VERDICT: So, on the whole, it strikes me first off that they've improved. They are by no means a power unit now, but I think they are much more useable than before. Maybe someone good at math hammer can tell me whether 2 wounds is better or worse than T4 but that is really the only alternate option to make them more survivable that I can think of. 

[duz_]

Now we just need some models!! GW doesnt even sell the old ones any more if my memory serves me right!

[dogfender]

Now we just need some models!! GW doesnt even sell the old ones any more if my memory serves me right!

this, they need models

[FlamingDeth]

I'll have to play around with them a bit to see how they assault in a practical environment, previously I've only really used them as a non-transport based melta delivery system. I'm sure they're still sufficient for that but they look to be better at poking things with sticks too?

[WarriorFish]

Good write up Nico :tu: They definitely need new models and do seem improved - depending on the full context of 8th of course, but it does look good. That said it's not hard to be improved on before but it is well deserved. I'm hoping we can see more cavalry in the barracks soon ;)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

You can be sure that in my first play test of 8th edition rules I will bring Rough Riders. I'll post my experience here.

[Kierdale]

Unfortunately our sergeants lost the option of taking melta bombs. :(

I guess I'll cut off what I gave my RR sergeant and maybe give him a plasma pistol instead.

[Gothical]

I am tempted by them, particularly due to their Outflanking Manoeuvres ability but they do face stiff competition from the new Bullgryn, especially in the counter-assault role. Combining the two could work well, pinning the enemy in place with the Bullgryn and then crushing them with the Rough Riders.

 

They probably do need to be stacked with Priests, or at least someone who can boost their Hit roll, because 1 attack at 4+ is a little poor for the Lances (especially since Marines get 5+ Saves from them now). Once the buffs get rolling, however, they could be good.

 

On the survivability front, a Primaris Psyker could be useful here, given one of the AT powers is +1 Save, giving the RR a 4+ in the open (and 3+ in cover if using them as counter-chargers).

 

I still wish that they had the option to trade Pistol & Chainsword for a Lasgun, just because I really like Dragoons but could be a fun tactical option too.

[WarriorFish]

That's a good point, I don't remember seeing melta bombs mentioned anywhere now I think about it..? They can't be gone can they?

[Plasmablasts]

And, if they're still around, how many melta bombs does a melta bomb cost now...?

[Cap'm Heckus]

With outflank I'd have to guess their best use would be tackling artillery crews, small heavy weapons teams, and other backfield trash, not tackling terminators or massed infantry.

 

Might be a nasty surprise for some border-skulking elder units or tree-hiding Tau pathfinders.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

With outflank I'd have to guess their best use would be tackling artillery crews, small heavy weapons teams, and other backfield trash, not tackling terminators or massed infantry.

 

Might be a nasty surprise for some border-skulking elder units or tree-hiding Tau pathfinders.

 

Yeah, my friend who plays Eldar who I usually play against, loves his Dark Reapers camped out near the rear. I'll definitely use my Rough Riders to thin those guys out! We're trying to put together a test game of 8th together for Monday.

[Gothical]

With outflank I'd have to guess their best use would be tackling artillery crews, small heavy weapons teams, and other backfield trash, not tackling terminators or massed infantry.

 

Might be a nasty surprise for some border-skulking elder units or tree-hiding Tau pathfinders.

 

Depressingly, I did not think of that use for them. That has just rocketed them up my list of "useful units". Supported with either Valkyrie-deployed units or Deepstriking Storm Troopers (a Taurox Prime may do in a pinch) and you can have quite a back-field force appearing suddenly and taking out units the opponent thought safe, then establishing a secondary front.

 

A >9" charge may be asking a bit much, and it will be quite hard to get them in range of Orders as they have no access to a Vox; the Telepathica psykers don't have any movement-extending buffs either. Perhaps this is a case for a couple of Special Weapons and a Plasma Pistol, so they can do damage on the initial turn they arrive?

 

Also worth noting, as I didn't read it properly at first, the RR Sergeant replaces their Chainsword with a Power Weapon, so you still get the Hunting Lance to use on other turns.

[Brother Captain Ed]

I think the most pertinent question about Rough Riders is clearly: how are you going to model them?

[Gothical]

I think the most pertinent question about Rough Riders is clearly: how are you going to model them?

Like bades.

[Brother Captain Ed]

I think the most pertinent question about Rough Riders is clearly: how are you going to model them?

Like bades.

Not helpful.

[Uprising]

I think the most pertinent question about Rough Riders is clearly: how are you going to model them?

Here is mine https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Death-Korps-of-Krieg-Death-Rider-Squadron

 

Sounds like a fun unit. 

[sedibear]

Here's a thought:

Add a Straken to your Catachan Rough Riders and charge in with +1A for all those juicy hunting lances :D

[elmo]

Hmmm... best get back to my motorbike RR then ;)

 

http://image.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_10396/gallery_62353_10396_127483.jpg

[Gothical]

I think the most pertinent question about Rough Riders is clearly: how are you going to model them?

Like bades.

Not helpful.

Sorry, was trying to be funny.

As a Cadian player I am thinknig of using the Dark Elf* Doomfire Warlocks as a base, given they have a layered robe and chainmail thing going on that could be turned into an oversized military jacket. The horses come with legs/feet attached, the feet will need trimming as they are looong but otherwise the way they sit in the lower-leg stirrup things looks pretty good for lancer; naturally the mutant horse heads will need replacing, random spikes cutting off and runes filling in. Use Cadian torsos, arms, weapons, helmets etc.

It is making the Lances that I actually find the hardest, given they have to be both advanced enough to fit with the reasonably high-tech Cadians but still look "realistic" - and also need arms that can hold them in appropriate positions.

[Withershadow]

I am tempted by them, particularly due to their Outflanking Manoeuvres ability but they do face stiff competition from the new Bullgryn, especially in the counter-assault role. Combining the two could work well, pinning the enemy in place with the Bullgryn and then crushing them with the Rough Riders.

 

They probably do need to be stacked with Priests, or at least someone who can boost their Hit roll, because 1 attack at 4+ is a little poor for the Lances (especially since Marines get 5+ Saves from them now). Once the buffs get rolling, however, they could be good.

 

On the survivability front, a Primaris Psyker could be useful here, given one of the AT powers is +1 Save, giving the RR a 4+ in the open (and 3+ in cover if using them as counter-chargers).

 

I still wish that they had the option to trade Pistol & Chainsword for a Lasgun, just because I really like Dragoons but could be a fun tactical option too.

Priests only help infantry, so they do nothing for the Rough Riders.  They do get to swing their chainswords after the lance attack.  Rough Riders seem best to me using their special deployment to go after backline support units, they shouldn't be in range of any psychic buffs honestly.

IN THE SECOND ROUND OF COMBAT, assuming your enemy doesn't flee (opening the possibility of another lance charge), our Rough Riders now have 4 attacks (pistol in shooting phase + 1A + chainsword bonus + plus horse hooves). Granted that's all at 4+/Str 3 but it beats the pants off of the impotent 1A we had in 7th after the initial charge. And Rough Riders are no longer "one and done" with their lances which has got to be an improvement although I'll admit I've never had them live long enough to use their lances a second time previously.

This is incorrect.  You would not fire the laspistols during the opponent's shooting phase.  If the combat lasts longer than 2 rounds (assuming you engaged first), then yes, you would get to fire the laspistols.

[The Pounder]

I hope to the God Emperor Deathriders for Krieg get outflank!

I'd feel properly chuffed!

Would be a bonus to painting loads of my favourite unit (visually!)

[Gothical]

 

I am tempted by them, particularly due to their Outflanking Manoeuvres ability but they do face stiff competition from the new Bullgryn, especially in the counter-assault role. Combining the two could work well, pinning the enemy in place with the Bullgryn and then crushing them with the Rough Riders.

 

They probably do need to be stacked with Priests, or at least someone who can boost their Hit roll, because 1 attack at 4+ is a little poor for the Lances (especially since Marines get 5+ Saves from them now). Once the buffs get rolling, however, they could be good.

 

On the survivability front, a Primaris Psyker could be useful here, given one of the AT powers is +1 Save, giving the RR a 4+ in the open (and 3+ in cover if using them as counter-chargers).

 

I still wish that they had the option to trade Pistol & Chainsword for a Lasgun, just because I really like Dragoons but could be a fun tactical option too.

Priests only help infantry, so they do nothing for the Rough Riders.  They do get to swing their chainswords after the lance attack.  Rough Riders seem best to me using their special deployment to go after backline support units, they shouldn't be in range of any psychic buffs honestly. 

 

*Sigh*, major derp on my part about the Priests. Psykers may help if you are using RR as more of a counter-charge unit in your lines, as with the power plus cover they will be W2 3+ models, which is far more durable than they have been before, but overall I think you are correct - which is a pity, as from a pure on-paper look it seems like they need some sort of character-based buffs to really get them going.

[Plasmablasts]

Personally, I'd love to see a whole range of mounted characters to accompany Rough Riders (priests, Psykers, Inquisitors on horse/lizard/struthid-back?!), although I accept that's not terribly likely. However, I could see GW producing a plastic RR kit with parts for a cavalry command squad (cavalry officer, standard, medic/vet, box).

[Withershadow]

 

*Sigh*, major derp on my part about the Priests. Psykers may help if you are using RR as more of a counter-charge unit in your lines, as with the power plus cover they will be W2 3+ models, which is far more durable than they have been before, but overall I think you are correct - which is a pity, as from a pure on-paper look it seems like they need some sort of character-based buffs to really get them going.

It's not all bad, you can mitigate battleshock just by keeping the units at minimum size.  54 points for 5 dudes with a power lance on the Sgt, it's easy to take three units and fulfill the FA requirement for the 9 command point detachment.  You can then also use those command points to further assist them.  With Creed as your Warlord, you're starting with 11 command points, and it's effortless for guard to squeeze in a small vanguard or heavy support detachment for an extra point.