8th Ed BA Tactica.

[TheHarrower]

Blood Angels came in 1st at the Boise Cup GT. Here's the list:

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormraven x3 AssCan, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormhawk x2 Interceptor Asscan, Skyhammer, Icarus

Stormraven Las, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Patrol Detachment

Captain w/ Jump pack, Storm Shield, Relic Blade

5 Tac w/ Hvy flamer, Combi-flamer, PF

 

5 Command Points

1844 Points

 

Kinda gross if you ask me, although this does have me debating on switching to 2 Stormravens.

Edited June 27, 2017 by TheHarrower

[Xenith]

Something I noticed in the GK section, but not here, is that we can use normal codex librarians instead of BA ones, and still let them affect us - their powers trigger on the ADEPTUS ASTARTES keyword, and not CHAPTER, so we can take advantage of veil of time and might of heroes etc by taking a normal non BA libby. 

[Indefragable]

Blood Angels came in 1st at the Boise Cup GT. Here's the list:

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormraven x3 AssCan, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormhawk x2 Interceptor Asscan, Skyhammer, Icarus

Stormraven Las, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Patrol Detachment

Captain w/ Jump pack, Storm Shield, Relic Blade

5 Tac w/ Hvy flamer, Combi-flamer, PF

 

5 Command Points

1844 Points

 

Kinda gross if you ask me, although this does have me debating on switching to 2 Stormravens.

Congrats to the winner. This is not meant to knock on him at all, but this list is really not "Blood Angels" and in fact will do us a disservice. This is the kind of thing that people like Reece at FLG will point to and say "BA are OP! They won the first 8th tournament ever!"

 

In fact, the above list will hurt us more than anything in the long run.

 

How so?

-it's Red Marines through-and-through. Literally the ONLY thing that makes it "BA" is the heavy flamer. That's somewhat of a neutral for us, but it's important to note and all will agree on that

---however, this could set the "lets have red centurions" crowd back even further because this sort of list will "prove" that BA "don't need" the units we are missing

 

-this kind of list exploited the new environment of 8th by going so heavy on Flyers. This is bad in he long run because it means top-tier players will wise-up very quickly and we can expect way more AA in the future

---which is absolutely disastrous for BA. So many of our units have the FLY unit keyword meaning all that AA gets +1 To Hit on us. As if hopping up the board was not hard enough as it is

Edited June 27, 2017 by Indefragable

[TheHarrower]

 

Blood Angels came in 1st at the Boise Cup GT. Here's the list:

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormraven x3 AssCan, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormhawk x2 Interceptor Asscan, Skyhammer, Icarus

Stormraven Las, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Patrol Detachment

Captain w/ Jump pack, Storm Shield, Relic Blade

5 Tac w/ Hvy flamer, Combi-flamer, PF

 

5 Command Points

1844 Points

 

Kinda gross if you ask me, although this does have me debating on switching to 2 Stormravens.

Congrats to the winner. This is not meant to knock on him at all, but this list is really not "Blood Angels" and in fact will do us a disservice. This is the kind of thing that people like Reece at FLG will point to and say "BA are OP! They won the first 8th tournament ever!"

 

In fact, the above list will hurt us more than anything in the long run.

 

How so?

-it's Red Marines through-and-through. Literally the ONLY thing that makes it "BA" is the heavy flamer. That's somewhat of a neutral for us, but it's important to note and all will agree on that

---however, this could set the "lets have red centurions" crowd back even further because this sort of list will "prove" that BA "don't need" the units we are missing

 

-this kind of list exploited the new environment of 8th by going so heavy on Flyers. This is bad in he long run because it means top-tier players will wise-up very quickly and we can expect way more AA in the future

---which is absolutely disastrous for BA. So many of our units have the FLY unit keyword meaning all that AA gets +1 To Hit on us. As if hopping up the board was not hard enough as it is

 

 

I agree with everything you said, with one caveat. It's super early in this edition. Just because this list won at a GT, doesn't mean this is setting any sort of precedent. In fact, the top 10 armies where all different. The meta is going to shift as people figure stuff out. I do agree that the FLG folks and whoever wrote the Blood Angels just don't get our army and how we are supposed to work. Hopefully, that gets rectified when our proper Codex drops.

[Silverson]

yer what I did take from looking at them lists tho was that an actual blood angels list finished in 21st using units that i rally enjoy in the sanguinary guard, the sanguinor, mephiston etc....

[Indefragable]

yer what I did take from looking at them lists tho was that an actual blood angels list finished in 21st using units that i rally enjoy in the sanguinary guard, the sanguinor, mephiston etc....

 

....and therein lies the problem we've had all through 7th Ed as well.

[Thoridon]

There will always be certain units that have an edge and will be exploited competitively. If they nerf Stormravens it'll become something else, and that list might as well have been any Marine faction.

 

If I played tournaments I might think differently but as I play for fun I use units I enjoy using. If I'm using my Blood Angels it's to have a bunch of red, gold and black models with jump packs charging in, with support. I use characters that are probably inefficient because I like the way they look or the story behind them. While I will rebuild certain things to fit better for a new edition and see which weapon options etc. are most efficient for a certain role, I'm not going to ignore 95% of our units to spam 1 thing that might be overpowered.

 

Could I go buy 3 Stormravens? Yes. Will I? No.

 

I'm sure he enjoyed winning the tournament and congrats to him for finding an effictive combination to do that but it won't change the way I play my games. When I use my BA I'll always be using BA units.

 

I will be adding a Stormraven as I've been meaning to get one for a while (and I need some more flying stuff to counter a Harridan) but I won't be getting several to dominate my list.

[Spagunk]

There were 4 ravens in that list, not 3.

 

There are also 4 lights!

[DemonGSides]

Well, I guess I'm glad I didn't sell all my Stormravens after hating them last edition.

[Quixus]

 

I do wonder if the HF devastator squads will survive the transition to full codex. It feels like an oversight, considering the 7th limitation, and how powerful flamers are in this edition, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

Great to see some more first hand experience broken down into usable chunks.

 

I'd agree. I can see these getting the nix, although I hope I'm wrong. Just one more thing to upset Salamanders players.

 

Well at least they get all the other marine units the smurfs get.

[Charlo]

I have two Ravens and can see them getting a lot of play. Bring Tycho to buff my backline too.

[Morticon]

Had a rematch vs. the Zerker player that trounced me in my second game of 40k the other day.  

Got my own back by tabling him in turn 3. 

 

I still have gripes and my list now plays like Tau <_< Not SM.  But, that's only one build.  I'll  probably try be pro-actively vocal about what i feel are legitimate concerns to GW.   But, looking forward in terms of tactica for the community, let me say this - 

 

Tactical Squads are dead. (For competitive purposes) 

Despite our minor cost reduction, despite our "above average statline" - sorry to say, but these guys bring absolutely nothing to the table that you cant get elsewhere.
There is ONE reason you bring tacticals, and that is if you are trying to buff CP.  

Even with BA bubble-buffs, they are WEAK on the charge. If you need the bodies and combat support, go ASM - hell even scouts. If you need fire support, then go with Devastators. 

Why Devastators?

Signum.  Exact same available options, exact same costing, but more weapon options and Signum (and Cherub options). 

A 5man Dev squad with HF, GC, Cherub, Cmbi-melta(or Cmbi-plas*) and Swd comes to 136(/134) points.  

Its really versatile.  This is my new "go-to" unit where possible.   If you're playing BA, you're looking to synergise our bubbles as its literally the only thing that sets us apart aside from our overcosted units <_< -  And i'm specifically talking about combat bubbles via Sanguinor, Astorath and Dante, but also the Priest bubble.  

Thats the reason for the sword, and I would always mount these guys up to get into the thick of things.
My thoughts for the build are as follows. 

1. The grav is a nice workhorse.  While nowhere near what it was, its -3 and d3 for most targets is solid. Against targets that its not doing d3 against, you still have 4 shots.  Now, while it is heavy, you also have the option of Signum on it, meaning even after disembarking, you're hitting on 3s if you want.  

2. Added to the grav and signum combo is the cherub.  For 5 points you get another 4 shots with the grav, and with the wording of Signum, it will last on the cherub's shots too.  VERY valuable. 

3. The flamer is there for additional support, as well as counter charge considerations.  D6 auto hits from overwatch are great and the -1 is solid

4.  The Melta is there for additional heavy support, BUT, i would probably gravitate towards the Cmbi-Plasma on the Sarge - why? If you're not using signum on the Grav, you can use it on him - that way you will never overheat on the plasma.  The wording allows a +1 to the die roll - so, unless you're targeting something with a -1 to hit, you will never have a "1".  This means that you're getting two S8 shots with -3 and 2dam.  


Additional consideration -> 

A priest or Corbulo. 

Throw in corbulo with these guys and you not only have them gaining additional attacks on 6s with S5 attacks, you also have the ability to bring back dead marines.  The wording allows you to revive specialists too -so this is really invaluable.  And I'd suggest corbulo over a regular priest because you up the odds of revival from 50% to 75% with his reroll.  

 

[Charlo]

And put them in a double AC Razor back yeah?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Glad to hear you got revenge Morticon =)

 

Thanks for the battlefield info, very valuable notes on the Devastators also.

Seems I may be repainting lots of helmets in my army *nod.

 

@Charlo

I like that sweet long range FREEM of double lascannon on a razorback myself if I am taking razors, but twin assault cannon are sexy too.

 

Better yet maybe sling along our dreadnoughts with stormravens for playing rip and tear distractions etc?

 

Points go so fast, so many good ideas hehheh =)

[Morticon]

And put them in a double AC Razor back yeah?

Yurp. 

[Jolemai]

Used in the other day (with a stormbolter). Will probably be my go to Razor for the time being.

[Xenith]

Good report Mort, and a lot to chew on. Could this be the return of 5 man las/las armies? Multiple small units of 2-3 heavy weapons.

 

I'm looking at a 6-10 man 4hvb Dev squad, which can now keep moving and shooting, same works for the grav squads you mention.

 

Thinking about it, mixed loadout Devs might be useful now as there are no wasted shots.

 

4x las and 4x hvb makes a clear choice for your opponent as to which is more threatening.

 

2 units each with 2x las and 2x hvb means your opponent has to remove more models before they get to the weapons that threaten them.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Xenith

[Remtek]

Testing ou 2x5 Dev squads with 4 Heavy flamers in each (and cherub) today with a Primaris Lieutenant to give re-roll ones to wound. Loving 8th, but kinda sad that the generic Astartes datasheets are the most appealing. I love the idea of command points giving a reason to take lots of troops, but right now it feels better to play 'unbound' and stay around 5-6 CP'.

Edit: Disembarking from a transport plus movement gives the H-flamer devs a 17" threat range which is pretty solid! 3+6+8

 

Thoughts on running 5 JP vanguard all with dual plasma? It's quite inexpensive and lets them do something useful as soon as they land. Overcharging them gives them str 8 rend 3 (which seems to be the magic number considering all the t7) which should be solid vs most MC/veichles.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Remtek

[Xenith]

 

Thoughts on running 5 JP vanguard all with dual plasma? It's quite inexpensive and lets them do something useful as soon as they land. Overcharging them gives them str 8 rend 3 (which seems to be the magic number considering all the t7) which should be solid vs most MC/veichles.

 

Do it with company vets and drop a captain in with them also to reroll 1's. Essentially a guaranteed 10 hits, translating to about 6 wounds for 12 damage after saves. You can also take combi plasmas on the vets instead if you like.

 

The company vets can also take hits for the captain if needs be, and the serge can tale a combi plasma+storm shield or whatever.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Xenith

[Charlo]

I'm certainly not mad that Devs are the go to - Tacs always felt like a strange unit. Bring 7 guys so you can bring 3 that really matter and cost the majority of the unit.

 

Big fan on dual pistol jumpers, they just look SO COOL.

 

How do the Primaris Intercessors stack up as a troops choice? Any use for them at all?

[Quixus]

 

 

Thoughts on running 5 JP vanguard all with dual plasma? It's quite inexpensive and lets them do something useful as soon as they land. Overcharging them gives them str 8 rend 3 (which seems to be the magic number considering all the t7) which should be solid vs most MC/veichles.

 

Do it with company vets and drop a captain in with them also to reroll 1's. Essentially a guaranteed 10 hits, translating to about 6 wounds for 12 damage after saves. You can also take combi plasmas on the vets instead if you like.

 

The company vets can also take hits for the captain if needs be, and the serge can tale a combi plasma+storm shield or whatever.

 

Just hope GW does not again nerf the rerolls on plasma weapons.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Had a 750 point battle yesterday against eldar and they're still as nasty as ever. Wraithguard are horrible when given their strength 10 ap-3 assault flamethrowers. They're toughness 5, 3 wounds a piece, oh and they can just leave combat. A 5 man unit wiped out a unit of tactical marines in one go.

The gravis captain is a solid choice, he's tough, he's got decent rerolls and he can dish it out. Some very lucky rolling got him to wipe 4 wraithguard in one assault phase which managed to turn the game in my favour thankfully.

Death company are great against standard line infantry but appauling against multiwound tough units.

Charging out of LoS seems like a legitimate tactic that's pretty nasty

[Jolemai]

Death company are great against standard line infantry but appauling against multiwound tough units.

 

 

I would argue that we can no longer afford to get away without having a power fist or a thunderhammer in our Death Company (or any focused assault unit for that matter)

[Charlo]

Death Company just seem to be the best troop to throw into your opponents shooty focused line.

 

They'll chop up enemy troops all day with sheer weight of attacks and a few chaplain buffs, but anything a little big and nasty they'll start to struggle unless you start kitting them out with all hammers.

[Remtek]

 

 

Thoughts on running 5 JP vanguard all with dual plasma? It's quite inexpensive and lets them do something useful as soon as they land. Overcharging them gives them str 8 rend 3 (which seems to be the magic number considering all the t7) which should be solid vs most MC/veichles.

 

Do it with company vets and drop a captain in with them also to reroll 1's. Essentially a guaranteed 10 hits, translating to about 6 wounds for 12 damage after saves. You can also take combi plasmas on the vets instead if you like.

 

The company vets can also take hits for the captain if needs be, and the serge can tale a combi plasma+storm shield or whatever.

 

 

 

I was thinking as a reserve alpha strike, company vets would require a pod making them quite expensive. 5 jump vanguard with 10 plasma shots should clock in at 32 meltabombs, though 12 inch range would make it easy to screen.